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Old August 3, 2011, 07:42 PM   #1
atomicsaladbowl
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M1 carbine help!!!

Hi guys, this is my first post and I am looking for some help with an m1 carbine i just bought.

I paid 240 bucks for this gun because it has some kind of strange problem jamming. It is an IAI carbine (israel arms international) which went out of business several years ago, they were made in houston texas, the guns seems to be very good quality, and the action looks in fantastic shape.

I think the gun is short stroking, every other round fired it fails to eject, sometimes fails to extract, jams a casing in the chamber, double feeds, stovepipes, at first i tthought the extractor was broken or the chamber was too tight, after taking apart the gun the extractor seems fine, and the chamber looks fine and fits a round just as it should, the extractor is nice and square and catches a round perfect.

someone suggested the gun was short stroking, and this could be caused by the gas system or the recoil spring. my friend who i bought the gun from put a brand new spring in it as soon as he got it because the gun had been stored for years with the bolt open, and since he first put that spring in it, it has been causing problems, but he never fired it before that because he figured the spring was too weak.

I am nervous about taking apart the gas system because i have never done that before, could it be possible the spring is too strong? could i cut some loops off the spring possibly???

Also i do not believe its the magazine which is a 10 rounder, because shooting the gun one bullet at a time with no magazine in it causes it to also jam up or stovepipe every other round. HELP PLEASE!!!!

heres a pic of the gun:


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Old August 3, 2011, 08:06 PM   #2
Bill DeShivs
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Put the old spring back in and try it.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:22 PM   #3
rdf.hack
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Could try wolff springs.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:28 PM   #4
atomicsaladbowl
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unfortunately i don't have the old spring, and im thinking maybe i should order a gi spring and try that? or maybe inspect the gas port first? any other thoughts?
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Old August 4, 2011, 06:10 AM   #5
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Make sure the gas piston moves freely in its cage. It doesn't have much travel to it, so if it's impinged somehow it can cause cycling problems.

Where are you at in Westchester? My ex-wife was from White Plains.
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Old August 4, 2011, 07:55 AM   #6
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Try a GI spring, about $5. Clean the piston and gas cylinder. After I get them clean I give it a single drop of Hoppe's #9.

Strip, clean and oil the bolt, extractor and ejector.

Are you using GI ammo?
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Old August 4, 2011, 06:09 PM   #7
atomicsaladbowl
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im in mt kisco in westchester, and i tried several different types of ammo, including pmc, federal, and another brand, did it with all of em, i think im gonna try ordering a gi spring and cleaning that gas piston, sometimes the gun will cycle for a couple rounds, sometimes even 5 but then it will jam, its very strange, 50/50 chance of it not getting jammed versus getting jammed
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Old August 4, 2011, 06:10 PM   #8
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where can i get a gi spring??

thanks for the help fellas
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Old August 4, 2011, 09:49 PM   #9
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http://www.sarcoinc.com/
Get a 15 round GI magazine while you're ordering.
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Old August 4, 2011, 11:24 PM   #10
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Sounds like a combination of spring and gas piston. Disassemble and thoroughly clean, lube lightly, and reassemble. Get an original 15-round magazine, as well as a new spring when you can. The M1 Carbine was made for combat, keep it clean and oiled, should function fine.
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Old August 5, 2011, 08:19 AM   #11
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Try a Garand style tilt test to see if the operating slide is rubbing on the stock or handguard . Wood can warp , metal can bend.
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Old August 5, 2011, 08:44 AM   #12
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Its probably your gas piston.
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Old August 5, 2011, 10:38 AM   #13
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Sounds like how my Inland Carbine behaves with underpowered reloads. Since you are using commercial ammo then it is probably something that causes it to have lower power on the piston operation: gas port plugged by crud (soak barrel with solvent); piston/cylinder carbon crudded; operating rod rubbing somewhere or gunked up with thick cosmoline/crud; bolt or receiver crudded up or has thick dried oil/cosmoline.

I doubt it is the spring. I would guess a thorough cleaning and lube of barrel, gas port, piston and cylinder, op rod and recoil spring, bolt and receiver will solve the problem.
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Old August 5, 2011, 11:18 AM   #14
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Have you checked the gas port and piston for crud? Its very easy to do, especially if you have the wrench for it...which is not nessessary to have to get apart.

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Old August 5, 2011, 05:57 PM   #15
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alright so based on what everyone said, i took the gun apart completely again and took a look at the gas piston and castle nut....

well the piston didnt move at all so i took a pair of needlenose pliers and was able to take the castle nut off pretty easily which is probably not right, anyway i took the castle nut off, then i tried pulling the piston out with my fingers and it didnt budge, so i gently used the needlenose pliers to pull it out and it came out somewhat easily but was completely coated with carbon, and so is the port and the castle nut, im assuming that this was the problem...

I have the castle nut and piston soaking in hoppe's no. 9 solvent and i sprayed some brake cleaner in the gas block and stuff, probably not the best idea, any thoughts on cleaning the inside of the gas block and the gas port?

Thanks everyone for the help and steering me in the right direction, hopefully this was the problem, the piston wasnt moving at all so im assuming this must be it, also before when the gun kept jamming the casings were coming out covered in gunpowder residue, probably a sign the piston was seized, what does everyone think??

Zak
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Old August 5, 2011, 05:58 PM   #16
atomicsaladbowl
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There is a pretty cool exploded color view of an m1 carbine i found on the net, pretty helpful
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Old August 5, 2011, 07:10 PM   #17
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automotive

Well other people may offer you better advise but when it comes to cleaning caked on carbon crude there are some automotive carb cleaners and throttle valve cleaners that are very good and not expensive, don't get any on the wood they will also remove the finish on the wood.
bb
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Old August 5, 2011, 07:20 PM   #18
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Now that you have the gas system apart, clean off all carbon.
The best ways to do this is to use a "lead-away" cloth to wipe it off, or even better use a carbon remover chemical.
Slip 2000 Carbon Cutter works very well. A 15 minute soak will remove it all.

Clean the gas piston, the gas cylinder nut and the inside of the cylinder itself.
For the gas port in the barrel, use a drill of the correct size BY HAND to gently remove any carbon.
I don't know what size the IAI gas port is so you'll have to figure that out.
In USGI Carbines the gas cylinder has a hole in the bottom of the cylinder to allow cleaning the gas port into the barrel.
Do this CAREFULLY, you don't want to damage or enlarge the port.

As an option, you could buy a new USGI gas piston and nut, since these will usually be better quality.

Once you have the gas system clean, DO NOT LUBRICATE IT OR PUT ANYTHING IN THE SYSTEM. Like most gas operated firearms, the Carbine's gas system is intended to be run TOTALLY DRY.
The Carbine gas system is normally self cleaning with GI ammunition.
If you put anything in the system, the super-heated incandescent gas entering the port will burn it into a carbonized, tar-like stick substance that will cause exactly the problem you have now.
This is also why the Carbine should be cleaned with the sights laying on the bench and the gas system up. This prevents lubricants or solvents from running into the system.

To reassemble the system, install the piston and carefully start the nut by hand.
Snug the nut down all the way then tighten down tightly using a GI-type piston nut wrench.
Once the piston is tight, use a center punch with a rounded-off tip to stake the nut in place by moving some of the metal of the gas cylinder into the space between the lugs of the nut.
If you don't stake or otherwise secure the nut, it will come unscrewed and can damage your carbine.
Make sure the punch tip is rounded. The idea is not to put a punch mark on the edge of the gas cylinder, it's to move a little metal into the nut gap to prevent it from unscrewing.

Next, buy a USGI 15 round magazine in good condition, and be prepared to try a different brand of ammo.
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Old August 6, 2011, 02:11 PM   #19
atomicsaladbowl
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ok so i took the gun to the range today after i cleaned the piston and nut and cylinder meticulously and cleaned the whole gun again thoroughly, I didnt realize the gas system was supposed to be completely dry, the m1 gi manual says to lightly oil it, and i have read that elsewhere, maybe i went a little to heavy.

Anyway, the first 5 rounds fired fine, then the gun started ****ing up over and over again just like before, i took it apart at the range, the gas piston was covered in this black residue, so now i am getting almost a constant stovepipe or failure to eject, yet cycling the gun by hand produces perfect chambering, extracting and ejecting so it must be the gas system or the recoil spring, but im leaning toward the gas system.

The last thing i can think of was that i overlubricated the gas system, but it was moving at the range, so I am out of ideas, i think my friend will give me my money back for the gun, but i bought it knowing of these problems, not sure what i should do, thoughts??
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Old August 6, 2011, 02:55 PM   #20
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Yes, the gas system on the carbine is supposed to run dry. As a matter of fact, it's really not ever even supposed to be disassembled (except at the "armory" level of maintenance). The G.I. carbines all have their gas pistol nut staked.

Are you using factory ammo or reloads?

Another thing that can cause the carbine to short stroke is cartridges that have been reloaded but not trimmed to length (or maybe a dirty chamber?). The carbine headspaces on the case mouth, and if the case is too long it prevents the bolt from going fully forward. This, in turn, prevents the slide from going all the way forward.

Because the carbine uses a short stroke gas piston, if the slide is not all the way forward part of that short piston stroke is "wasted", since the gas piston uses up part of it's travel just to reach the slide.

If this is what's happening, this is your carbine trying to warn you of a very dangerous situation - you may be approaching an out-of-battery discharge.

G.I. carbines had some designed-in features that prevented out-of-battery discharges - a tang on the firing pin that had to pass through a slot in the receiver bridge to reach the primer, and a cam surface on the hammer that interacted with the bolt so as to either rotate the bolt the rest of the way, or that would arrest the hammer in its travel. Some commercial carbines either eliminated these features entirely (late model Universals) or just had them far enough out of spec that they were not entirely effective. So be careful out there.
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Old August 6, 2011, 02:58 PM   #21
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Did you use a pipe cleaner in the barrel's gas port? If you bend the tip of the pipe cleaner, you can easily reach the port tube clear into the barrel.
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Old August 6, 2011, 03:59 PM   #22
atomicsaladbowl
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I have been using factory ammo, and it does it without the magazine even in so thats not an issue. could it be the 5 rounds that cycled fine were enough to foul up the oil that was in the gas cylinder?

The chamber is clean and the entire rifle was clean, its got me stumped, maybe the headspace is off?? im not sure, sometimes it has trouble seating a round in the chamber, maybe the chamber is reacting to the heat of the first 5 rounds?
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Old August 6, 2011, 04:10 PM   #23
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Did you check how the operating slide moved to see if it was hanging up. Easy to check with the carbine barreled action out of the stock and work the slide and bolt, watch if it is hanging up on the receiver sides. i had trouble with one that had some dings in the slide rails and filed them smooth and problem went away.
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Old August 6, 2011, 05:43 PM   #24
atomicsaladbowl
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i checked the slide, it is not hanging up on anything, smooth as silk, the slide gets hard to pull back obviously when it goes to push the hammer down, other then that it cycles very smooth. I am stumped!!
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Old August 7, 2011, 07:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
The chamber is clean and the entire rifle was clean, its got me stumped, maybe the headspace is off?? im not sure, sometimes it has trouble seating a round in the chamber, maybe the chamber is reacting to the heat of the first 5 rounds?
I seriously doubt its a heat issue...especially after only five rounds. You need to take apart the gas system and re-clean it. You never said if you were able to clear to gas port with a pipe cleaner. There may be serious copper fouling or some other piece of crud obstructing the gas port from the bore side of the barrel.
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