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Old September 29, 2011, 05:07 PM   #126
AustinTX
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"...passed the U.S. Military trials..." Selected for political reasons. Other NATO countries complained about the balance of trade of military kit being heavily in favour of the U.S.
Pure, unadulterated B.S., and already debunked.
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Old September 30, 2011, 09:59 PM   #127
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....

1911: awesome...see videos below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEABZswQWDg - lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWh07...feature=relmfu
Berretta: they have an okay "feel".....that's about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAE9...feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLtd...feature=relmfu
...
other than that...glocks always work.
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Old October 1, 2011, 06:10 PM   #128
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I read about a torture test of the Star 30M. They ran 5000 rounds of 9mm NATO M855 ammo thru it as fast as they could load the magazines. A few bobbles at the start showed a rough ramp. A quick polish and no more failures. They measured parts before and after. No appreciable wear and no broken parts. After a cleaning , groups were even a bit smaller than before the test.

I've read reports of a Star 30M that digested over 30,000rds at a rental range.

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Old October 1, 2011, 06:22 PM   #129
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5 pages later

Ok, what's the most rugged handgun?
The obvious answer that everyone has overlooked is the Hi-Point. All Hi-Point owners swear that their pistols have fired at least 3,458,671 rounds without cleaning, and never fail.

Also, if you do drop it in the mud, sand, cement mixer, etc., all you have to do is return it to Hi-Point and they will fix it.
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Old October 1, 2011, 06:27 PM   #130
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Plus, with a Hi-Point, I could melt down my old matchbox cars and make new parts.
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Old October 1, 2011, 09:19 PM   #131
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The Most Rugged?

Ruger.
Redhawk, Blackhawk, GP100 ... dunno which. Followed closely by Saiga shotguns.

My opinion and worth every bit of what you paid for it.
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Old October 2, 2011, 07:01 AM   #132
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"...passed the U.S. Military trials..." Selected for political reasons. Other NATO countries complained about the balance of trade of military kit being heavily in favour of the U.S.

Pure, unadulterated B.S., and already debunked.
I had "heard" a number of years back the the U.S. selection of the Beretta was somewhat of a bribe to the Italian government for their help in dealing with the Mafia and other crime syndicates. How true, or even plausible, that is, I don't know.
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Old October 2, 2011, 01:16 PM   #133
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Old October 8, 2011, 11:35 PM   #134
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I love my Smiths but I have to give my vote to the Ruger GP100.
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Old October 9, 2011, 08:40 AM   #135
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Nothing more reliable and durable than a revolver, no contest.

For semi-autos, the two contenders would be the Makarov PM, because of the very few parts and overall simplicity, and the Glock. I'd only be able to choose between those options if I knew more about what I'd be able to carry (spare parts, cleaning kit, ...) etc.

If I knew nothing about that all, I'd take a S&W 586 or something.
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Old October 10, 2011, 12:45 PM   #136
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Revolvers, for semi-autos 1911. I own an M9 and would personally say it has been completely reliable
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Old October 10, 2011, 12:56 PM   #137
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As mentioned earlier, many plastic pistols such as Glocks or the MK23, although extremely reliable, will not hold up to shrapnel like a metal framed gun. I would say any non-MIM 1911 using ball ammo would probably be the most reliable and proven gun you could get.
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Old October 10, 2011, 01:34 PM   #138
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I was on active duty during the changeover from 1911 to the M9; it was a raw deal. The M9 does not compare at all to the gun it replaced.

I don't know what the most rugged gun is, as I've never had one run over by a vehicle, dropped off a cliff, and I keep mine clean and maintained.

Anyone have any data on what constitutes a rugged gun?
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Old October 10, 2011, 03:02 PM   #139
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I'll play with a novice offering:

I hope it is a Glock 19 as I have one.
I'll settle for a GP100 a I plan to get one.

However, if you are talking solid build, reliable shooting and proven through service, then why not consider the all steel IWI Jericho 941 in 9mm?

9mm will not subject a gun to the same forces as a .45 despite being built to also chamber .41. The Jericho was allegedly designed to also serve as a blunt force instrument hence its mass, it has seen service for some time and owner reviews on the civvy circuit seem to suggest they don't break, have a great trigger and aren't ammo fussy...

and, oh.... did I mention that I almost bought one?
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Old October 10, 2011, 03:09 PM   #140
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As much as I like my 92FS, I'd have to say the most rugged is the stainless steel Smith 5906. That gun is built like a tank (and weighs as much as one too). I'm pretty sure the 5906 is nearly indestructible.
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Old October 10, 2011, 03:56 PM   #141
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I'd have to say the most rugged is the stainless steel Smith 5906.
This^ and the 4506. I have not submitted mine through torturous tests but I can't imagine it failing. I know everything breaks eventually but I just cant picture it. I've seen glocks cracked and broken, XDMs blown up, I've even seen Redhawks blown to shreds(there were extenuating circumstances to this one but the point stands), but I've never heard of or seen pictures of the 3rd gen smith and wesson autos failing in any catastrophic way.
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Old October 10, 2011, 05:35 PM   #142
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Quote:
Pond, James Pond wrote:

I'll play with a novice offering:

However, if you are talking solid build, reliable shooting and proven through service, then why not consider the all steel IWI Jericho 941 in 9mm?
Agreed--There are a couple of middle-eastern countries that build good-quality affordable small-arms, namely, Israel and Turkey (politics aside).

That Jericho is very sweet and durable to boot.

-Cheers
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Old October 11, 2011, 02:51 PM   #143
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The OP didn't say what it was for, so I'd have to say a .22 revolver. Not only won't the elements hurt it, but neither will the bullets.

But seriously, you'd be hard pressed to beat a Ruger revolver. I only own S&W's myself, but even I would have hand the trophy over to Ruger for durability.
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:36 PM   #144
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If I am not mistaken the three finalist in the DOD test for the 1911 replacement were the M-9, Ruger and Sig 226. All three meet the DOD requirements however believe that the Sig 226 finished overall 1st, in DOD test. The M-9 2nd and the Ruger(forget Model#) 3rd. Recall 226 had 3 or less jams per 10,000 rounds fired. My understanding why the DOD went with M-9 was simple financials. M-9 was believed priced $15 per/unit less than the 226. The DOD first contract was for an initial 500,000 units. Do the math. That was 7.5 million dollar savings on just the first allotment. As stated earlier the P-226 is in use today by the Seals around the world and the P-228 was an Air Force option for small handed enlisted, mainly women who's smaller hand fit the 228 better. This should say something about the Sig as a true workhorse.
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Old October 11, 2011, 07:17 PM   #145
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For rugged I am going with a stout single action revolver. More power from less size and weight. Now true they are not XFrame Smiths. They are a heck of a lot more practical for packin on the hip though. I would gtab my .41 Mag due to the fact that I am the most familiar with it. It is like an old friend in my hand.
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Old October 11, 2011, 08:06 PM   #146
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Navy Seal in Afghanistan with Sig 226
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Navy Seal with sig 226.jpg (25.0 KB, 44 views)
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Old October 11, 2011, 10:36 PM   #147
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If I am not mistaken the three finalist in the DOD test for the 1911 replacement were the M-9, Ruger and Sig 226. All three meet the DOD requirements however believe that the Sig 226 finished overall 1st, in DOD test. The M-9 2nd and the Ruger(forget Model#) 3rd. Recall 226 had 3 or less jams per 10,000 rounds fired. My understanding why the DOD went with M-9 was simple financials. M-9 was believed priced $15 per/unit less than the 226. The DOD first contract was for an initial 500,000 units. Do the math. That was 7.5 million dollar savings on just the first allotment.
The Beretta 92SB and Sig P226 were the only two finalists. Ruger was not even involved. Sig was initially ahead with a lower overall price than Beretta, but Beretta ultimately submitted an at-cost bid and edged Sig. Beretta's lead in the military's scoring system was not much smaller than Sig's initial lead, despite Beretta's cost advantage being one-third that of Sig's initial cost advantage. Accordingly, it's not accurate to say that money was the sole factor. For instance, two of the five Sigs tested cracked their frames with a low round count, while none of the Beretta test models broke during the Army trials.

Anyway, continual small improvements mean both guns are considerably more reliable and durable today than during the Army trials. The most recent government testing of the Beretta showed a MRBF figure of 21,500.

Both the Beretta and Sig are very fine guns (though I'm not fond of Sig's QC and components sourcing practices under Cohen), but they're still not going to win round-count contests against top-tier steel- and polymer-framed guns, and aluminum-framed guns will always require more attention to regular maintenance.

Quote:
As stated earlier the P-226 is in use today by the Seals around the world and the P-228 was an Air Force option for small handed enlisted, mainly women who's smaller hand fit the 228 better. This should say something about the Sig as a true workhorse.
Not to pick nits, but SEALs carry whatever the hell they want. Glocks and 1911s are the most common choices, from everything I've heard.
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Last edited by AustinTX; October 11, 2011 at 10:44 PM.
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Old October 13, 2011, 01:01 PM   #148
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toughestest handgun ?

IMHO the Ruger GP100. Well over 10,000 .38 and .357 without any problems. Results may very. dgang
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Old October 13, 2011, 05:37 PM   #149
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Any quality 9mm with max loads, Glock, Sig, M&P,XD, CZ, will outlast any quality 357 revolver with max loads. Flame on
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:14 PM   #150
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The 9mm is not in the same class as a .357, the comparsion is invalid. However, if the same holds true with other autos, ie: 10mm and .40 cal you have a point. Good shootin' to ya', dgang
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