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Old August 22, 2011, 05:08 PM   #26
zombieslayer
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I shouldn't have used the terminology of "low income". Now that I'm home from work I'm realizing how low my own income is. These kids have higher incomes than most of us working folks.
Pepper spray would work well for crowd dispersement in a contained area. Problem would be not affecting ones self.
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Old August 22, 2011, 07:49 PM   #27
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I shouldn't have used the terminology of "low income". Now that I'm home from work I'm realizing how low my own income is.
The difference is you aren't sucking off the teat of the Government.

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Problem would be not affecting ones self.
No kidding. A few years ago I gave a burst to a dog that refused to leave our parking lot and was frightening our customers due to his size and breed. I made sure the wind was at my back and hit him with the pepper spray. It happened to be on the side of a car and the wind must have lifted and swirled the spray backwards because my lungs literally shut down. I had to think....breath dude breath. Burned like hades.
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Old August 22, 2011, 08:08 PM   #28
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I really think its sad that more people are not familiar with firearms and abhor them. They are afraid of something they dont understand because most anti gunners have no clue about what firearms are. Everyone has the right to defend themselves if they feel there life or the life of loved ones is in danger. People should stop being so afraid and realize that honest citizens carrying can stop crimes. Also BG's knowing the population were familiar with firearms would be a deterrent. I know this is a bit of a dream but I think it would truly help the country. Thats just my opinion. Oh and by the way im packing my S&W 3913NL IWB with three mags on me so thats 25 rounds of 9mm in case it is a NECESSITY to use it. I have a nice variety of loads that feed great and will fit most situations. 1mag- 124gr. Gold Dots (In Gun), 1mag- 147gr. Golden Sabers, 1mag- 124gr. NATO +P FMJ for penetration. I feel pretty
safe anywhere .
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Old August 22, 2011, 08:23 PM   #29
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Things like this is exactly why I believe people should carry.
Flash mob violence is one of the very LEAST likely scenarios you'd face where you may need a gun to save your life--even in a big city. Flash mob victims, when compared to "ordinary" violent crime victims, wouldn't make a pimple on a water buffalo's butt.

Half of America lives in towns not big enough to support flash mobs. And yet they still have crime victims as a result of the same ol' criminals who've been victimizing folks like you and me for ever.

Not saying that mob violence isn't something you shouldn't consider or be prepared for. Just saying that it's not the BEST reason for carrying a gun.
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Old August 22, 2011, 08:27 PM   #30
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I understand what your saying perfectly. I just want to be prepared if the situation arises not caught with my pants down.
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Old August 22, 2011, 08:43 PM   #31
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^ I hate being caught with my pants down.
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Old August 22, 2011, 09:35 PM   #32
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I with ya buddy, LOL. Really though its the equilvalent of that only you can die in my opinion. Being totally suprised is not a good way to react because your already a step behind.
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Old August 22, 2011, 10:36 PM   #33
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politically correct mainstream media

I'm sure most have noticed that the mainstream network media (NBC, MSNBC, CNN, etc.) have given very little coverage of this relatively new phenomenon in mob mentality. FOX was the first to cover and reported it as it actually was; mostly young black males gone wild.

Some instances where white people were targeted for violence by blacks,(see Wisc. State Fair), the authorities danced around the subject and refused to call it like it is and label it as a hate crime, black on white. Reverse this situation and show a mob of white youths beating blacks while yelling racial slurs and Brian Williams would be doing his NBC Nightly News from the scene, competing with other mainstream media to get first hand accounts from victims.

Many well thought out responses to the OP's question here on this thread. I try to be as rational and level headed as I can be and will go out of my way to avoid confrontation, call 911 when appropriate, be a good witness and such. But I'm in the camp of those who can't stand by and watch an innocent person be beaten or worse. Of course, there are variables to consider, but if I'm on my own with no loved ones present, you may be reading about me in the news or see me on a flash mob video...
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Old August 22, 2011, 10:49 PM   #34
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Of course because any conservative or person that is to the Right are treated badly and those stations act like it doesnt exist. Fox is the only news station that kind of covers whats really going on and I agree 100%. That is mostly what I watch. I dont know if you heard but some politcal figure said that tea parties were crazy and something else rediculous, I dont remember who. I dont want to make this political though so thats all Ill say.

Honestly though there is violence being perpetrated against everyday citizen in there cars and everything. I hate to say but this seem completley racially motivated and its sad. @Sliponboy--- You pretty much said what needed to be said.
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Old August 23, 2011, 06:12 AM   #35
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it's a different kind of crime than 3 guys coming in holding up a store - demanding money at gunpoint.

When criminals do that a store clerk or store owner is justified (in most cases) in using deadly force.

When someone comes in and grabs some merchandise off the shelf - the store operators aren't justified in shooting that person. When you multiply that by 15 or 30, you have a "mob" of people emptying the shelves like a swarm of locusts, but the store owner is still not justified in using deadly force. He can't come out from behind the counter and just start blasting away.

The perpatrators know this.

The flash mob muggings are different though... when a mob attacks someone, deadly force is justified by that person to defend their own life, and/or by another person to defend the life of the person being atacked.
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Old August 23, 2011, 07:50 AM   #36
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^^^ my thoughts as I read this thread...

however... even in flash muggings... if all the "bad guys" are 14 - 17 year old "kids" even if the shooter could perswade everyone they genuinely feared for their life, it would be socially unacceptable to shoot a "bunch of kids"

starting to think the OC should take the place of the Bug or the extra magazine ???
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:11 AM   #37
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My friend tacojohn was mugged by a gang of 14-16 year olds in pine hills. He was told by the police that he was wise not to fight back or he would have been charged with assault on a minor. The cops seem to have their hands tied in dealing with teens from "the projects". Its good to know they're fed, housed, clothed, and current with communication technologies. Oh and a coupke years ago they introduced a gasolune allowance card for those on government assistance. Free gas for the Benzes and Cadillacs.
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:19 AM   #38
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He was told by the police that he was wise not to fight back or he would have been charged with assault on a minor.
I find that astounding!
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:50 AM   #39
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As did I. But its not surprising. Orlando law enforcement are pretty unhelpful. Thats why downtown orlando has turned to really scummy ghetto.
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Old August 23, 2011, 09:02 AM   #40
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Parts of downtown Orlando are trash but others aren't. If you stay inside of the core where the highrises are you're OK. Other parts are definitely "at your own risk" when traveling. I park across from OPD headquarters all the time and never have a problem.

Stay out of Pine Hills, period. My mother in law had a home there in the 60s when it was the premier neighborhood in Orlando for the white collar crowd. Most of those homes are still there but it's turned into a terrible place. I lived there myself through the 90s and that's when it really started to turn. I moved out in 2003, I lived at the far edge, really it was the Clarcona/Rosemont area. After several shootings we moved.

I have lived in Maitland since then and even here it's creeping in.
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Old August 23, 2011, 10:57 AM   #41
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Yep. He was bicycling and they jumped him. He was near his apaetments across from valencia. The sam group later robbed and shot a woman on his doorstep with a gun they'd stolen from his car. They were caught but im sure the "bright aspiring youths" are already back on the streets.
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:00 AM   #42
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My friend tacojohn was mugged by a gang of 14-16 year olds in pine hills. He was told by the police that he was wise not to fight back or he would have been charged with assault on a minor.
I bet even if he did fight back and beat the tar out of those kids and he went to court, the jury would be on his side.

It just seems as I get older that the youth of the world gets more and more violent. I'm only 31 but when I was that age the only stupid criminal stuff I did was steal lawn ornaments, tip over port-a-potties and vandalize. The only violence in my school was a fist fight every once in a while. Nowadays I here about kids killing kids every day on the news. The last time I was robbed was by a young 16-18 year old and he pointed a gun at my face. That's when I decided to get my CCW and a gun... or 3.
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:20 AM   #43
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some seriously dangerous places to be. One reason I love my hometown, little to worry about unless you start something.
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Old August 23, 2011, 01:43 PM   #44
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I've noticed that a fair amount of posts are sociological blah, blah.

Unless we get back to realistic tactical issues about mobs - it gets closed.

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Old August 23, 2011, 01:50 PM   #45
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Fist fighting off more than one 14-16 year old boy, who knows how to fight half way ok, is not quite as easy as we might think. My wife is a middle school teacher and I can promise you that I have to look up to many of them. They are football lineman in the making. Articulating how some of these beasts trying to rob me made me fear for my life will not be hard.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:05 PM   #46
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I think that overwhelming force is still overwhelming regardless if it is kids or adults. If it was me I would run and call the cops. However if I seen some folks in the mob in the process of beating someone to death and I was by myself not protecting anyone then I would try and do something.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:11 PM   #47
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I do wonder about caoacity in the face of a mob threat. Im a j-frame 357 carrier. My hi-capacity carry guns are my PPS and 1911(mostly winter). Now Im sure one shot would probably clear out the crowd if one is being attacked. But I cant help but wonder about the chance that its an armed mob. Its one remote scenario where I can see needing a doublestack with a reload. Just a thought, bored at work.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:15 PM   #48
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30 thugs to 1 man? Teenagers or not, that is a grim outlook. Assuming I have my EDC, I have 16 in the gun and 30 in two spare magazines. That doesn't mean much when there are 60 fists and 60 boots to deal with. If they overwhelm you and they will, and take the gun, expect that the adrenaline in the mob will result in you being shot, kicked, stomped and pummeled, possibly to death - correction, probably to death.

Mobs take on a behavior entirely their own and typically that behavior escalates continually, matching your response and going up from there with a greater response. In the State of Florida I would have no duty to retreat in a situation like that but by all sane accounts it is the correct choice of action. I would not confront a crowd like this. Even the police will not do this without a dozen or more men armed and armored with riot gear.

My number one goal when facing off with a mob would to not be facing off with them at all and getting myself, and my family, as far away as humanely possible and shooting through, pushing through, driving over or whatever other means is required to accomplish this.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:22 PM   #49
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My main carry gun when I go to town is my sig p226 and I have 21 rounds in the gun and 60 in 3 mags that I carry with me 61 of them are hornady critical and 20 is el cheapo hollow points for possums and such around the house. I carry enough ammo ( well I consider it enough ) its not lack of bullets I am afraid of its just I couldn't get them all if they rushed me. Depends on how far the mob is I suppose
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:24 PM   #50
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This thread is, well ... - just rambling.

Yeah, if someone was being beaten, I would try to do something.

What does that mean? Have done a lot of FOF, I think that is frankly naive to post.

Ok, here's what I would run in a FOF.

1. Two guys are kicking the crap out of a guy on the ground.
2. They are surrounded by a group cheering them on.
3. You arrive with your EDC - let's say a semi with two hi-cap mags on your belt.

A. You yell at them : They yell back at you (seen this, BTW).
B. NOW what :

1. Open fire?
2. At whom? The yellers? Through the crowd at the beaters?
3. The yellers turn to you and say : Hey, tough guy you going to shoot? Well, grasshopper - what's your legal justification for that?
4. Sure, they will flee in panic from manly you - or maybe not?
5. Going to hose a large group (prison time) - you will only shoot the BGs and not just spectators. Right.
6. Wave your gun around and don't fire? Well, it's multiple Tueller drill time. Think some won't get to you if they aren't so scared of you. Then you are shot. Mobs have taken down lone armed police.
7. Fire in the air - great plan.

So if you say, you gotta do something - think it through. Unless it is a loved one or you are ready for truly severe personal consequences for trying to save this victim - call the law from safety.

If you say you can't live with yourself, that is also internet BS. People have come through personal horror and many can live with themselves now - appropriate therapies can help.
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