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Old August 22, 2011, 09:15 PM   #26
MJ45
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not go where, to the death star? pardon me, as far as hypotheticals go, seemed like it was already headed there.
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Old August 22, 2011, 09:27 PM   #27
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President Bush signed two executive orders about this. One allowing the President to carry and a second prohibiting Vice President Cheney from carrying. (Sorry in advance , I couldn't help myself).
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Old August 22, 2011, 10:12 PM   #28
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He carry's launch codes not little pistols
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:07 AM   #29
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One allowing the President to carry and a second prohibiting Vice President Cheney from carrying.
I was talking to a SS agent one time. Not only is Cheney a huge gun person, he could shoot. He often went to the range with SS agents and could out shoot most of them.

As to the president, since he's the highest LE officer in the land, head of the justice department, I would think he could carry under the LEOSA.

People would complain, rant and rave, regardless, people are always grumbling about something no matter which way you go, but I really doubt any president would be impeached for carrying a concealed weapon.
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:37 AM   #30
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Who says he does not already carry? Concealed means concealed.

Like most politicians, a POTUS has a base he/she has to pander to. The wider the base, the better the chances of being elected.

By carrying openly he would alienate a lot of people. By not acknowledging he is carrying, the gun folks do not seem to mind. Past presidents have been photographed shooting long guns, but I am not aware of any that show a president using a handgun.
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:44 AM   #31
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Not only is Cheney a huge gun person, he could shoot LAWYERS.
Fixed that for you.

Sorry, had to do it.
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Old August 23, 2011, 10:22 AM   #32
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Cease and desist talking about current or recent office holders and stick with the theoretical except to cite factual instances of them carrying in office or granting permission for such. Whether Barack W. Cheney was a good shot is irrelevant.

Thank you.
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:20 AM   #33
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seems to me SS is around him all the time and unless they actually train for the president drawing a gun it would get in the way and may be more dangerous to all involved. maybe while he is alone in his office or bedroom? what scenarios seem vulnerable?
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:17 PM   #34
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Being the President " WHO IS THE HEAD HONCHO" who is going to tell him he can't carry a hand gun. Like stated he is in charge of all the military and federal LE agencies. That would be the same as telling the chief of police he can't carry a gun.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:29 PM   #35
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That has actually been done in towns where the police chief couldn't pass the qualifications. Haha. Happenend in Portland, OR, IIRC many years ago.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:32 PM   #36
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The President also has a limited immunity to criminal prosecution; this certainly would not be treason or bribery, and it really wouldn't register as a "high crime or misdemeanor." Even so, it would require impeachment and trial in the Senate.

So not only is it a "who is going to say no" kind of thing, but even if he's blatantly violating the law by doing it, would it actually rise to the level of something that could lead to removal from office?

I suppose if Congress really wanted to cook his goose over it, it could be possible, but it would be an extraordinarily difficult sell.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:40 PM   #37
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If he is a legal resident of this country and has no felony record or been adjudged mentally incapacitated by a court of law then he has the same second amendment rights as every other citizen. Of course he also has to abide by all the silly laws, rules, regulations and petty bull that the rest of us have to abide by. No special consideration for him just because 52% of this country's voters thought he walked on water.
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:51 PM   #38
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Couple of things to consider here, some of which have been mentioned previously...

- The POTUS could indeed sign an E/O authorizing himself to carry.

- The POTUS could use his/her significant political weight to influence, both openly and behind closed doors, the reversal of draconian gun laws in certain locations of the U.S.

- The POTUS does not need to carry. Yes, there's tons of SS agents around the POTUS at all times... Yes, they are well-armed and even better trained. However, since when does the need to carry determine anything for us?

- Normally, most of us advocate that anyone who wants to carry, should, after obtaining proper training and permits (if permitting is required). Well, the POTUS can create a "permit" for himself via E/O... Therefore, if the POTUS wants to carry, he should.

It would be a real political statement regarding firearms use in the country. Sure, the POTUS doesn't need to... But why shouldn't he/she? The POTUS is just as much a citizen as you or I...
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Old August 23, 2011, 05:13 PM   #39
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That has actually been done in towns where the police chief couldn't pass the qualifications. Haha. Happenend in Portland, OR, IIRC many years ago.
The sheriff in our county sees herself as more of an administrator. She couldn't pass the certification requirements most police officers have to meet. Since she is sheriff, she is technically exempt by statute but she doesn't carry (for liability reasons I believe). She has actually been a pretty good sheriff and will be reelected in November.

http://www.fayettesheriff.com/
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Old August 23, 2011, 06:03 PM   #40
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International factors

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet as part of the theory is his/her role as an international figure. How would this affect the president's negotiating credibilty with nations that are on either end of the gun rights spectrum. I would assume that the laws of the host country would apply but then again, the president does travel with small army as has been pointed out. Therefore, there is clearly a way to bypass the laws of the common man.

All in all, this is a facinating discussion.
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Old August 23, 2011, 06:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Coyote WT
One thing I haven't seen brought up yet as part of the theory is his/her role as an international figure. <snip>
I would assume that the laws of the host country would apply but then again, the president does travel with small army as has been pointed out.
Following the laws and customs of the host country would be basic diplomatic courtesy...

Ever see the video of George W. Bush coming up behind Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, and grabbing her by the shoulders? A guy can probably get by with something like that in a bar in Texas, if he knows the woman well enough... but grabbing a foreign head of government at an international summit meeting? Not cool... she was way startled. He was lucky she wasn't packing.
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Old August 23, 2011, 07:02 PM   #42
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Could the President carry?

Absolutely. Who could arrest or stop him? The USSS would prevent such.

However, why would he? He is surrounded by USSS and can pretty much do as he pleases personally (that includes overseas!)
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Old August 23, 2011, 08:45 PM   #43
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Yeah, there's a lot to be said for diplomatic immunity...

I think a lot of people assume the POTUS would actually use the gun in a "situation"... Highly unlikely...

However, there's the principle of the matter... To carry just because it is your right, to say nothing of the actual "need" to do so.
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Old August 23, 2011, 09:46 PM   #44
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I believe that it is settled law that Federal LEOs can carry without interference from State and Local Law Enforcement. SCOTUS made that decision in a California case were state LEO arrested a Federal Marshal. I don't remember the Case.

If POTUS wishes to carry I don't think it would violate any law. Since his carry would involve security he can issue an unpublished Executive Order and not advise anyone.

Historical Note: Andrew Jackson shot a guy off one of the Balconys of the White House. Old Hickory was a great shot and notorious duelist.
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Old August 23, 2011, 10:57 PM   #45
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I would love it if he did and said, "I have a lot of agents to protect me, but it's the duty of every citizen to protect himself as a last resort instead of expecting others to stop a bullet in exchange for a paycheck and a pension." That might get some folks to think about it.
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Old August 28, 2011, 01:49 PM   #46
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Above the Law?

Since the President lives in Washington D.C., wouldn't he have to abide and follow DC law about handgun posession and carry?

He may be the President, but that makes him neither king nor God (no matter what some might think), and not above the law.

Or does it?
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Old August 28, 2011, 02:37 PM   #47
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He may be the President, but that makes him neither king nor God (no matter what some might think), and not above the law.

Or does it?
He's the top cop. The commander in chief. It is from the authority of his branch of government, the executive branch, through the constitution, that police officers and federal agents get their powers of law enforcement and arrest. He has the authority to be armed, in my opinion. Exemptions for LE would apply to the president, as he is the head of federal LE.

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Old August 28, 2011, 04:57 PM   #48
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As far as I know, all Federal LE, (e.g. Secret Service, the FBI, BATFE, DEA, et.al.) are all under the Judicial Branch, not the Executive Branch.

If he were going to carry legally, I would think it would have to be under the auspices of some sort of exemption applying to the military.
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Old August 28, 2011, 06:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa
As far as I know, all Federal LE, (e.g. Secret Service, the FBI, BATFE, DEA, et.al.) are all under the Judicial Branch, not the Executive Branch.
Only a very few Federal LE work for the courts. Most Federal LE work for the Justice Department (FBI, DEA, BATFE, US Marshals) or the Department of Homeland Security (Customs, ICE, Secret Service), both of which are Executive Branch departments.

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Old August 28, 2011, 08:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa
If he were going to carry legally, I would think it would have to be under the auspices of some sort of exemption applying to the military.
I'm under the impression that the main reason the President is the commander in chief of the armed forces is that in a democracy, it's a good idea to have the military under civilian control.

So the whole point is that he's a civilian, i.e. not in the military, and so not eligible for any military exemptions...
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