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Old August 20, 2011, 06:11 PM   #1
ZVP
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Movie guns?

I have been watching the local Cable TV "Western Channel" and have noticed that in the old "B" movies the director arms the Bad Guy Gang Members are often armed with '51 Navys however they usually just draw the guns and brandish them, not actually shooting their BP revolvers.
I suppose arming the "Extras" was less important than giving them a Colt and some Blanks... You rarely (read NEVER) see anyone loading a Cap and Ball gun. Film minutes are too expensve to be wasted...
Heck even 'Ol Clint uses Cartrige conversions!
I guess realism only goes so far.
About the only movie I recall seeing a loading sequence in was the Lonesome Dove saga.
Anyone else remember seeing one?
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Old August 20, 2011, 06:18 PM   #2
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A while back we were discussing an issue of Bonanza where the Cartwrights had to reload. I think Little Joe had a Colt Navy.

In some movies or television shows, the extras were given rubber guns. I guess they weren't likely to commit suicide with them.
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Old August 20, 2011, 06:25 PM   #3
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Hello, ZVP. If you can find the 1940 movie, ARIZONA..starring Jean Arther, & William Holden..you are in for a treat. Takes place in Arizona territory 1860.
Bad guys want to take over stage line run by woman, of course they are Confederate sympathizers. Best part is gift of Henry rifle to hero, ...and by the way..this is a REAL Henry..not the old Hollywood dodge of removing forend from a Win. 92". the scene in the saloon where bad guy is getting ready for gun fight..He is sitting at table, with a percussion revolver. Wooden case with all tools and flask & bullets in front of him. You can actually see his arm jerk as the ball is seated in cylinder..either they were using some kind of wad over powder..or this fellow knew his way around a percussion sixgun to make it look authentic! Good stuff!
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Old August 20, 2011, 06:41 PM   #4
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Little Joe Cartwright,,,

Quote:
A while back we were discussing an issue of Bonanza where the Cartwrights had to reload. I think Little Joe had a Colt Navy.
The episode was called "Enter Mark Twain",,,
Here's a link to the youtube clip (Pt-5) of that gunfight,,,
The reloading (such as it is) starts about 2:55 in the video clip

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Old August 20, 2011, 06:52 PM   #5
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There was a very brief moment in "Gettysburg" where Jeff Daniels ( as Chamberlin ) is seen finishing a reload of his Colt- pushing the barrel against a log ( I think- haven't seen it in a while ).
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Old August 20, 2011, 06:58 PM   #6
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Yeah he fires about 20 rounds without loading then goes inside and loads twice without firing a shot.
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Old August 20, 2011, 11:26 PM   #7
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Wow, those revolvers in Bonanza sure had more round capacity than a modern pistol. I could have sworn each of them fired 20 or more shots without a single reload.
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Old August 20, 2011, 11:31 PM   #8
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Yeah..and the time frame for the movie was in the 1860's!
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Old August 21, 2011, 01:48 AM   #9
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Movies and TV ain't history.
"...even 'Ol Clint uses..." Changed cylinders in one of 'em. Josie Wales, I think. And 'Ol Clint doesn't think you should be allowed to own any firearm.
"...The episode was..." Took the barrel off too.
"...In some movies or television shows..." Most of 'em. Too expensive and unnecessary for extras to have real blank firing firearms.
"...more round capacity than..." I've always wanted one of Roy's SAA's.
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Old August 21, 2011, 02:16 AM   #10
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Clint Eastwood changed cylinders on his 1858 Remington in the movie "Pale Rider". He took the barrel off his Colt open top revolver while he was cleaning it just before Tuco's bandito friends entered his room in "The good, the bad and the ugly". What was neither historically nor technically correct about that last movie, was that sometimes they showed the guns as being percussion with nipples one minute, the next minute they were either 1872 open top Colts or conversions both using cartridges. Even when Clint took the barrel off his gun to clean it in that scene, it showed him loading it with cartridges when he finished cleaning it and just in time to shoot all the banditos. All before the civil war was over and before either the 1872 open top was produced and before conversion cylinders were made and for that matter before cartridges came into widespread use. (Although cartridges were being used to a very limited degree by the Union). That gave me a chuckle. The prop master certainly took a lot of artistic license with that movie.

Y'all may find this link interesting.....

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Good,_The_..._The_Ugly,_The


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Old August 21, 2011, 08:46 PM   #11
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How about "Quigley Down Under"? Wasn't there a scene where Crazy Cora is reloading a cap-and-ball revolver to defend herself and a young boy against a pack of dingoes?
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Old August 21, 2011, 10:27 PM   #12
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Good job Bill.
The greatest movie ever produced, "The Outlaw Josey Wales" had quit a mixture. I studied them for a while.

The firearms there were simply for ease of loading. In the famous poster, where he has his arms crossed they are cap-n-ball Walkers. However, in the movie they are converted and don't even have front sites on them.
All for fun though, I forgive Ol' Clint for that.

However, at least we didn't see any '73's anywhere, man. I loved John Wayne, but he was going to use his favorite carbine and revolver no matter what the time period. Didn't matter to me than, nor now.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Outlaw_Josey_Wales,_The
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Old August 22, 2011, 12:38 AM   #13
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And didja ever notice Clint frequently has some barrel protruding from the bottom of the Holsters? Ya'd think the armourer would make sure a big star had a correct fitting holster...
Oh well, it's the Movies!
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Old August 22, 2011, 01:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Stephanie B wrote:
How about "Quigley Down Under"? Wasn't there a scene where Crazy Cora is reloading a cap-and-ball revolver to defend herself and a young boy against a pack of dingoes?
Right you are Stephanie, good catch.....

(Crazy Cora (Laura San Giacomo) packs lead balls into the Colt Dragoon, attempting to reload it before the Dingos come back.)


From this below link to the "Quigley Down Under" guns.....
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Quigley_Down_Under

Revolver? What revolver? Was there a revolver in that picture?








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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; August 22, 2011 at 02:21 AM.
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Old August 22, 2011, 01:13 PM   #15
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Not a loading sequence scene, but i found the propguns in the movie "Wanted" quite interesting. There were some interesting sidelock-based weapons "used" in the movie. I think i found the magazine-fed pistol most amusing.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/(Wanted)_-...n_Sniper_Rifle
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Wanted#Fli...non-mock-up.29

I laughed.
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Old August 22, 2011, 04:03 PM   #16
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One of my favorite western movies.....

....and in spite of what I am about to say, will remain so forever, is Open Range. But a supremely disappointing part of the final sequence is where "Waite" seems to get around thirteen shots from his revolver. Earlier he speaks to Michael Jeter's character about placing some weapons where they can be retrieved but I don't remember any part of the movie which would have permitted time for that up to the point where he appears to be using a magazine fed (tongue in cheek) six shooter.

Just as an excuse for watching the movie for the umteenth time, I think I will pay closer attention to just how many shots he fires.

In Breakheart Trail (Is that the correct title?) Duvall fires his Walker in an attempt to signal his compadres. All but his hand and the grip of the Colt are out of the camera's view. You hear the pistol's report, but no movement of his hand from recoil, no smoke, no flash. Hrumph!.
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Old August 22, 2011, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
In Breakheart Trail (Is that the correct title?) Duvall fires his Walker in an attempt to signal his compadres.
You mean Lonesome Dove.
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Old August 22, 2011, 07:32 PM   #18
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Thanks for the correction, Marsh..

...I like Breakheart trail too.
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Old August 22, 2011, 10:25 PM   #19
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Doc,
I agree, Open Range is a great movie.
I recently read an article where keven Costner was upset that the edited version of the movie made him look like he was shooting a 12 shooter. He was supposed to be pulling another revolver, but we don't see that.
The scene in question is where the entire gunfight starts and he pulls off the famous "head shot." But there seems to be lots of 12 shooter everywhere.
Anyway, can't find the article but if I do, I will post it.

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Old August 23, 2011, 05:36 AM   #20
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Thanks, OJW

Gratifying to know Kostner's feelings about it.
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:28 AM   #21
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Doc, that Open Range scene came up in a thread on this forum before. Believe I posted that the count was nine shots, starting with the "head shot".

Here's a link to the discussion: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...+powder+movies
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
In Breakheart Trail (Is that the correct title?) Duvall fires his Walker in an attempt to signal his compadres. All but his hand and the grip of the Colt are out of the camera's view. You hear the pistol's report, but no movement of his hand from recoil, no smoke, no flash. Hrumph!
That must be a Duvall signature blooper. Same thing happened in the original "True Grit" when Ned shoots Rooster off his horse near the end of the movie. Point, sound, no smoke or recoil. But truly the best scene in Lonesome Dove is Duvall belly shooting the chicken man.
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Old August 23, 2011, 01:04 PM   #23
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Here ya go noelf2, cluck cluck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UhypY-pUg
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:17 PM   #24
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In the openeing sequence of "The Rifleman" there is one more round fired than the Winchester M1892 holds because the producers wanted to synchronize the shots with the music. Then Chuck Connors twirls the gun around and reaches into his shirt pocket to reload.
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Old August 23, 2011, 03:52 PM   #25
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Love it! The Movies can stretch a cylinder, fire literally smokeless loads and even make BSA Scorpion Air Pistols into James Bonds favorite weapon!
I guess ya have to overlook some mistakes if the end product was good eh?
Yes I like that scene with Crazy what's her name in Quigly. Once she was on set, you sorta don't look at anything but her top anyway... LOL!
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