The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 19, 2011, 06:11 AM   #1
Slugo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2001
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,007
who would really want one of these...

seriously, and for what reason...

__________________
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt...
Slugo is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 06:28 AM   #2
bejay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2008
Posts: 194
well they are popular not sure why anyone would want one myself, I can see having an ak rifle but an ak shotgun doesnt seem to be that useful to me.
think the magazine fed and high capacity may be what causes some to buy them.
bejay is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 08:17 AM   #3
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
If nothing more than a single shot look alike... they would still be desired...
But to put it in light...

Why would anyone want of these?

They are not anygood for sending lots of rounds down range real fast to pick off the 20 soupcans full of catsup water...

To each his own...
When asked, by momma warbucks, for a justification for a novelty purchase I usually just say " 'cuz I want it"... and "Ain't this thing cool as heck, honey?"

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 08:19 AM   #4
Ed4032
Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2010
Posts: 64
Zombies
__________________
Gun control is like stopping drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to drive.
Ed4032 is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:21 AM   #5
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Who would really want one of those, Slugo?

The people who were raised with the various video games dealing with war, zombies, etc. do not know any other reason for shotguns existing except for SHTF, HD, etc., so they drift towards the "black plastic fantastic" guns that are sheet metal stamped, etc.

They couldn't understand bulino, circassian, Boss lockwork, swamped rib, or any of the other terms associated with higher-end guns - which is really too bad, because they're missing out on some of the most fun with a shotgun, especially a well-made, well-balanced, hand-crafted one that doesn't jam, rattle or need TEOTWAWKI accessories to look good..............
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:40 AM   #6
lamarw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 1,552
Amen Oneounce, Ignorance is bliss, or in this case is it blitzed? You see the same ignorance in the pistol and rifle arena. Not to mention one popular gun TV show that seems to feed their ego.
lamarw is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 11:05 AM   #7
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,795
Quote:
They couldn't understand bulino, circassian, Boss lockwork, swamped rib, or any of the other terms associated with higher-end guns - which is really too bad, because they're missing out on some of the most fun with a shotgun, especially a well-made, well-balanced, hand-crafted one that doesn't jam, rattle or need TEOTWAWKI accessories to look good.....

Yeah, it's really a crying shame that 18USC 922z prohibits the ownership of both tactical and clay game shotguns. Once you buy one, you're forever banned from investigating the other scatterguns on the market.

Several of you are just being silly.


The Saiga 12 is a fun gun. It's no replacement for an good quality over/under, and vice versa. My Citori XS is by far the superior tool for obliterating those tiny orange UFOs at the skeet club. My Saiga 12 is fun in its own way as well... even though I'm on record as saying the 870 tactical is probably a better defensive gun, the S12 still has its own place.

I'm not sure why people in handgun, rifle, and shotgun arenas are under the impression that the tactical stuff precludes the finer higher quality target firearms and interest in target shooting means you have zero interest in self defense guns. I guess it's an inferiority complex that makes them want to feel superior to the others. Quite sad, really.

Some guns are superior for self defense. Some guns are superior for games, hunting, and other purposes. Just use whatever suits the purpose and resist the desire to look down your nose at them, because that just makes you look bad. If you like to hunt and shoot skeet and see no problem with marginalizing the tactical guns, then don't be surprised when those youngsters you saw as immature don't feel any desire to protect your dove hunting rights. Less division, more pulling together.
Technosavant is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 11:24 AM   #8
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,033
I don't want one ...but I can see why some guys are attracted to them...

There was a guy in my local indoor range last nite - shooting a drum fed 12ga semi-auto ...and I didn't go over and talk to him / but he seemed to be having fun ...

My tactical weapons are my handguns ...and I was exercising some of my Sig Sauers in .40S&W last nite ...and doing the same thing ...having some fun, with 10 boxes of ammo ....and working on my draw from a holster, double taps, triple taps and reloads ... ( and I had one gun with me / a Sig X-Five that's 55 oz with a full mag in it ....drawing it from a holster ...and its almost pulling my pants down every 15 min its so heavy ...it sure isn't a carry gun / its a race gun ...but it sure is fun ....

I suspect the same thing with some of these tactical shotguns ...although there are a lot of them just sitting in safes vs being shot every month too .

Everybody should buy what they want - and what they can afford .../ just because I have no use for tactical shotguns doesn't make them bad options..they are what they are. I buy shotguns - and handguns - and rifles for the purpose that suits me - gives me the most pleasure / not for what anyone else thinks.

Last edited by BigJimP; August 19, 2011 at 11:31 AM.
BigJimP is online now  
Old August 19, 2011, 11:51 AM   #9
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Quote:
Yeah, it's really a crying shame that 18USC 922z prohibits the ownership of both tactical and clay game shotguns. Once you buy one, you're forever banned from investigating the other scatterguns on the market.

Several of you are just being silly.
Not silly - just disappointing, and in a way, really sad.

Nothing is stopping them except their own ignorance and ignorance can be fixed........
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 12:30 PM   #10
RoscoeC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2006
Location: DFW Metromess
Posts: 562
Gee whiz guys, I like hot dogs off of the street vendors in Merida, but I can wig out on Prime Rib at Morton's too. Point is they aren't mutually exclusive. I can totally appreciate a beautiful high end shotgun even though my Cynergy is about as close as I intend to come to owning one (too many other places for my dollars to go). But if I had an opportunity to throw down with a Saiga I sure would. Hearken back to Dave McC's stint with a loaned Saiga 12. He ended up kinda liking it as I recall.

Now surely you guys aren't going to say Dave is a lumbering lout that can't appreciate a fine shotgun. Nor am I. Lumbering lout, maybe, but I can appreciate a fine shotgun. I can appreciate the Saiga too, just like I appreciate my AK-47 that I built with my own little hands from a kit.

Fun things don't have to all be prime rib, some of the baloney is pretty good too.
__________________
“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
"Do not cry havoc when you should but hunt with modest warrant." --William Shakespeare
Glock Certified Armorer
NRA Life Member
RoscoeC is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 12:48 PM   #11
Polynikes
Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Posts: 61
In response to the OP, I WOULDN'T want one of those...


...I want one of THESE



...but I still prefer this for my birds and clays.
Polynikes is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 01:20 PM   #12
zippy13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,380
The AR-style shotguns are touted as being fun; but, from what I've seen, burning up a lot of shot shells in quick succession could get tiresome very quickly. I suspect the AR-style shotgun's novelty quickly wanes and they become closet queens and only come out to awe their peers. Does anyone have an AR-style shotgun that they fire on a regular (every week year after year) basis?
zippy13 is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 01:33 PM   #13
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Quote:
Now surely you guys aren't going to say Dave is a lumbering lout that can't appreciate a fine shotgun.
I would but he owns all those evil shotguns... so i will refrain...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 02:29 PM   #14
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,322
I wouldn't mind a Saiga. My reason? Why the heck not? It looks like a lot of fun to shoot, and that is good enough for me.

Maybe I have a lot of fun blasting washing machines and other junk out in the desert. Or maybe I want something hi cap for 3 gun or some other event.

Also, maybe I don't need a $20,000 Olympic grade stackbarrel in order to have fun. It's crazy, I know.
kozak6 is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 03:32 PM   #15
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
Amazing how many people look down their noses at people who have a different taste in guns instead of supporting folks for being involved in the sport at all.
Don H is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 03:39 PM   #16
l98ster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2010
Location: Hopewell Junction, NY
Posts: 452
The saiga 12 shotguns are very popular for 3 gun matches. I have several friends with them, and after a little work on the gas ports, it shoots pretty well. The biggest advantage of the saiga for 3 gun is the fact that since its magazine fed, reloads are very quick.

However, personally, I am waiting for the competition version of the mossberg 930 spx to be released. Benny Hill is testing them for mossberg right now. He says its the best out of the box shotgun in the $700 range he has ever seen!!

-George
l98ster is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 03:42 PM   #17
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
I do lumber a bit, but I deny emphatically any tendencies to louthood...

That Saiga I had on a lengthy T&E was a lousy trap gun and ugly to boot. But, it was great for plinking at a coffee can with slugs, making it jump at 40 yards.

If I had needed to reduce the threat level in my vicinity fast, that Saiga would have done well, possibly better than my well worn Wingmasters.

I shoot trap,but I'm no trapshooter. I've shot 3 gun and done well, but I am no 3 gunner. I've fired hundreds,perhaps thousands of shells at game animals and birds and AM a hunter.

I'm not a cardshooter, Vintager, nor CAS gunslinger. Not a skeeter, nor a collector of fine art that shoots. I COULD enjoy any and all of that.

I'm a shotgunner.

My modest battery is evenly divided between fine wingshooting guns and well known tools for defending my family and self.

Using a Saiga for trap makes as much sense as trying to take a grey squirrel from the top of a hickory with my much loved 1911. Use the best tool for the job.

Mabe some of our 3 gunners and Prac/Tacs oughta shoot some clays, and take time to admire the fine lines of a game gun or a pure D clays crusher.

And some of our traditional types oughta learn how they can do on a Dozier Drill with their skeet guns.

As friend Tamara says, "we need to forget about our Silly Little Tribes"....
Dave McC is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 08:37 PM   #18
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,795
Quote:
Not silly - just disappointing, and in a way, really sad.
Oneounce, I do owe you an apology; I thought you were being derogatory, when you were simply pointing out the lack of exposure of many people to the finer shotguns and the moving target practice we know as clay games. I reread your comment, and I get your point now, I apologize for misunderstanding you.


I think, though, that this disconnect between the "black gun" folk and the "gun as work of art" folk is ignorance on both sides, not just on the tactical side. For those who are into Saigas, AKs, ARs, and high capacity tupperware blasters, they grew up in a different world, where violent crime was much more noticeable. Thus, their interests aren't just having fun, but mere self preservation, and there's a beauty in the tools that allow us to protect house, home, and loved ones just as there's beauty in a finely tuned gun with exquisite wood and the nicest little trigger you ever did feel.
Technosavant is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:00 PM   #19
DougU
Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2011
Posts: 90
I do believe that I would like one! Why, just for the fun of it!! I have a couple of nice shotguns, and several lowly working class pump guns. I enjoy them all for what they are. They all have different purposes. I really can't see taking my browning or my grandfathers Parker out in the duck marsh or the deer woods. I also can't see the reason to spend all of my time at the range shooting little clay discs, but I do enjoy it as part of my fun. Just like I could see taking a Saiga 12 to the range, small game, deer in tight cover, etc. and having a blast. Does that answer your question?

This is a silly question, why would one want to spend many 10's of thousands of dollars on a Holland and Holland? Why would one want a single action colt revolver? Why would one want a 100 yr old design like the 1911? Why would someone want an AR-15 style rifle? Etc, etc, etc.

Last edited by DougU; August 19, 2011 at 09:07 PM.
DougU is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:07 PM   #20
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Techno - thanks......and no problem.................I have NO issue with folks buying and shooting what they deem to be either necessary or fun - my "issue" is reading posts from young folks who have never held or shot a fine gun and have absolutely no idea some of these even exist, let alone as to why someone would want to spend the money

I have owned the black plastic pump stuff - even have one somewhere in my house - but you give me a finely balanced AyA or Perazzi and you can keep the entire output of Mossberg.

Anyone who has done driven birds, or Argentina or similar can attest as to the lack of pumps and plastic stuff..........there must be a reason - and one I HOPE the future of shotgunners will learn about and hopefully want to pursue................

I would hate to see those pursuits die out in favor of nothing but SHTF pursuits...........but that is just this old curmudgeon.....
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:12 PM   #21
DougU
Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2011
Posts: 90
One ounce, are you saying that all of the magazines I read that say the outfitters keeping Benelli/beretta autos with plastic stocks and fore-ends are liars? Or that their photos are fake? I may be reading you wrong, but you are really starting to sound like a gun snob. Driven game, argentina dove shoots.............wow!
DougU is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 09:34 PM   #22
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
nope, not at all........go back and start to read ALL of the threads

Not every outfitter keeps the same

Some folks have no idea things like these exist, and when they do find out, comments like yous about "snobs" seem t be the first thing - I call it "reverse snobbery" - but you are surely entitled to your opinion

Life is too short, enjoy what you want and can afford - but at least make sure you are aware of things beyond your reach, experience and understanding
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 10:09 PM   #23
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,151
Why would anyone want one of those Saiga 12"s?

Because they CAN. That's why, and no other reason is necessary.

And--why not?

On one recent occasion, I went to the range with three long guns. Sitting next to each other on the bench were:

1. A 100% original Springfield Mark 1 1903. It cost me $600.
2. My 45-120 Sharps rifle, 100% custom, made by C. Sharps. That one set me back close to $4000. when everything was done on it.
3. My Hi-Point 9mm carbine. It cost my son $90.00 to buy it for me.

I have fun with all three. I shoot, therefore I am.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old August 19, 2011, 10:13 PM   #24
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
It seems from your post Powderman that you have a wide variety of guns and not only know about them, but can also appreciate those differences - good for you. Knowledge is a wonderful thing - hope your shooting is fun
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 20, 2011, 06:24 AM   #25
Slugo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2001
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,007
some honest answers...

I posted this as a legitimate question, not as a trick question. All in all, I wouldn't mind trying one out for an hour or two. Some 20 yard water jug shots would be fun!! Clay targets, I think not, other than maybe a hand thrower. Besides, any sanctioned venue would never allow a Saiga to be used on the skeet or trap field.

Anyway, that was fun to see all the opinions...
__________________
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt...
Slugo is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14151 seconds with 7 queries