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Old August 18, 2011, 01:41 PM   #1
Daugherty16
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Another Home Invasion In CT

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/n...-investigation

The homeowner (a 60 year old woman), a 30 year old woman, a 3 year old, and when he arrived home, the homeowner's husband, were the subjects of an armed home invasion perpetrated by 5 young males wielding guns and knives. The 30 year old woman was pulled from the shower! at knifepoint. The investigation continues. I live in a neighborhood very like this about 15 miles away, but with lots more dense woods around the houses.

So, when you leave your wife and daughter at home, are they armed? Would even a 12 ga shotgun have been effective against 5 armed invaders?Prior reports indicated that a shotgun was stolen, but these women were obviously unprepared to use it, couldn't/didn't resist, and all were left physically unharmed at the end of 4.5 hours of captivity.

The cops recommend locked doors and burglar alarms. How about a large dog, or at least a noisy territorial mutt that would have given advance warning of the BG approach?

You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do? Is the element of surprise and disparity of force too much to overcome? Do you wait until they separate to search the house before drawing and taking down the one or two in sight, hoping you can escape into the night with your family?

Interested in your thoughts, suggestions, precautions, tactics. I know, this precise situation isn't described in sufficient detail, but humor me.
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Old August 18, 2011, 01:48 PM   #2
rolo550
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I'm certainly no expert, but if one is taken in the shower, he has to be able to separate himself and get to a gun...Same with the concept of smashing through the slider.

There was a guy in Fort Worth a few years back taken by surprise rushed to his closet for his gun and was beaten to death with a hammer along the way. Sometimes an ambush is an ambush. That being said...if you want a Monday morning quarterback type comment, id try to retreat to a point where they funnel in, like a bathroom closet or a room at the end of narrow hallway, get low, then pop em as they come in thru the door/funnel.

Any yes, often retreat after popping one or two may be the best option, or not popping anyone for that matter if you're just trying to get the family out, just go if you can - no reason to invite return fire/knife violence with kids around...
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Old August 18, 2011, 01:51 PM   #3
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The cops recommend locked doors and burglar alarms. How about a large dog, or at least a noisy territorial mutt that would have given advance warning of the BG approach?
Whether it's the local cops on crime, or the Federal govt. on natural disasters (man made or otherwise), having a gun so you can defend yourself is NEVER a recommendation from the govt. and seldom from the local police.

Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?

Quote:
You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do?
Another "what would you do if you had 3 seconds to react" question.

OK, I'll humor you.

The odds favor he/she who doesn't dither.

Not likely they'd get thru my front door in a single "crash", since I have a Master door brace the goes from the bottom of the door knob to the floor. The back door is re-enforced with a large bolt that screws into the floor. Those would give me time to reach my pistol (the one I carried that day) 1 1/2 steps from where I'd likely be sitting or sprint for the bedroom for my 870 or P226.

If I'm caught in the shower and didn't hear them enter, I'm in the same amount of trouble you'd be in and there wouldn't be much to humor you about.

Last edited by Nnobby45; August 18, 2011 at 02:05 PM.
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Old August 18, 2011, 02:30 PM   #4
Daugherty16
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This is more actually about - what strategies can/do you employ to prevent this this from being your home and family on the news?
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Old August 18, 2011, 02:37 PM   #5
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another point worth noting is the fact that this invasion was mere miles from the other infamous one that has been on the news a lot
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Old August 18, 2011, 02:38 PM   #6
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to answer your 4th post...I would like to personally turn our primary home defense duties back to our shotgun.
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Old August 18, 2011, 05:46 PM   #7
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damn shame

It is a "dang" shame it has come to this kind of action by thugs. I don't know if one can be prepared when someone has probably already staked you out, and they decide when. The previous post of preparing first, and maybe giving you time to react to a close at hand weapon would work. However these smash and grab tactics are catching on with the slugs er thugs.

Oh and I'm glad I live in the sticks!
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Old August 18, 2011, 06:00 PM   #8
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If I have my pants on, I have my handgun on me too.
Three seconds is more than enough time for me to draw my weapon.
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Old August 18, 2011, 06:39 PM   #9
Alaska444
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Quote:
Daugherty16

This is more actually about - what strategies can/do you employ to prevent this this from being your home and family on the news?
We had a bunch of home robberies in our neighborhood that eventually went away went the section 8 house went away by foreclosure. During that time, I beefed up my home defenses.

We put up strategic bars on the kitchen window, downstairs bedroom and the sliding glass door. We put a security gate on our front door so no one can just kick it in. On all of the other accessible windows, we put ACE Security laminates that will prevent all smash and grab robberies.

http://www.smashandgrab.com/

We put up Phillips dusk to dawn outside lights that turn on at night and off in the morning. We have an alarm on all windows and doors and two motion detectors.

Lastly, I always carry indoors and out when I am out of CA that is. In CA, I always have a gun available in the house. At night, we have taken further precautions with a barricade for our master bedroom followed up by two 20 ga shotguns loaded and my .357 all by my bed.

My thinking is that if the creeps make it past my outer perimeter, they are most likely very dangerous and I will be justified in defending my family should that danger of death or serious bodily injury ever arrive which I hope it doesn't.

One of the reasons I went to such lengths is the thought that with the number of robberies, I just did not want to take out a young punk kid. I know how stupid I was at that age and I am glad I got more than one chance. In many ways, it was my concern of not wanting to hurt a typical smash and grab kid that I went to such lengths so I could avoid such a confrontation. Not that I have no doubt that many of these kids carry and would not hesitate to shoot back at you, but I just didn't want to go there with a young kid who were the ones doing most of the robberies at that time around our house.

I feel pretty confident that I can keep the smash and grab creeps out of my house. I believe I can also slow down a home invasion attempt long enough to get to my shotgun which is always close by.

Sadly, with all of the home invasions in the news, it is a present day reality that you must prepare for such a possibility and hope and pray you never need to put them to the test.

Last edited by Alaska444; August 18, 2011 at 06:45 PM.
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Old August 18, 2011, 06:41 PM   #10
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I am rarely more than two feet from a loaded handgun. In such a situation, I figure I'm going to be killed anyway. A friend of mine was, suspended from his barn rafters and bludgeoned with a claw hammer, then shot to death by three escaped convicts from MS. So I'm taking some of them with me. They think they got game, I will show them what game is.
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Old August 18, 2011, 06:45 PM   #11
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Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?
It's been know to happen: This is from my neck of the woods here in Ohio. Old news for people from the area.

What do you do in that situation where you are surprised, outnumbered, and, if all were armed, outgunned?

IMHO, you can train yourself, drill your family, and have a gun in every room in the house, when shtf all you have is snap reaction. Mine? Grab the first thing with a loaded mag, shoot it empty while working towards the next one, duck and cover all the way.

Quote:
In such a situation, I figure I'm going to be killed anyway.
Pretty much my approach

As far as finding a choke point? Good idea in both theory and practice provided your floor plan and their point of entry allow for it.
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Old August 18, 2011, 08:31 PM   #12
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Well, there are times when you're vulnerable. Guess you can't wear a .45 around your neck in the shower. Best bet is getting all the warning time possible. A good watch dog(s) that will bark and a security system should give you a heads up but, in the shower you don't hear much? Sometimes the best laid plan go to the wayside due to timing and luck?
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Old August 18, 2011, 08:43 PM   #13
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There a NO safe places, only those that ...

haven't been struck.

It comes down to mind set, if nothing happens it never will, Right?

Motion lights are best items that get the perimeter lite and gives you defined silhouette to locate. Just don't light yourself up.

Add dead-bolt locks to exterior doors ( keyed alike to keep it super simple).

Add neon night lites to dark corner that can't be readily removed / accessed.

You stage a firearm where you can retrieve it at your discretion or by-pass heading for second.

Be vigilant, not paranoid.
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Old August 18, 2011, 10:36 PM   #14
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Shoot, and try to shoot first. They are seeking targets of opportunity and if it seems like the odds are no longer in their favor, they probably won't stick around.

A few months ago here in Miami three young guys with rifles barged into a house. The homeowner met them with a gun of his own and the robbers couldn't get out of there fast enough! The homeowner had a security camera outside his house and caught most of it on tape.
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Old August 18, 2011, 10:47 PM   #15
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Bad guys hate alarms and dogs. I'd say get both if you can, but if it's one or the other, get an alarm and turn it on when you come in for the evening.

Dog are dissuasive, but 5 determined guys are going to kill a dog, probably silently, especially if they've staked the place out and know you have one.

An alarm doesn't have to be fed, walked, boarded, etc and calls the cops while sounding an ear-splitting screech. Yes, they can be disabled but that doesn't happen much.

5 on 1 (or 2) does not bode well but if you can start shooting back, you will interrupt their assault. If one or more is dead or injured the others aren't going to stick around. You may go down too but if it means you protected your family, so be it.
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Old August 19, 2011, 07:12 AM   #16
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our alarm lasts for 48hrs if electricity goes out, someone disables it, etc. You will be able to tell it is 'on battery' as well. alarms are a good deterrent. Nothing is full-proof, but every little bit helps. We have no trespassing and other private property signs. They were to just keep 'driveby' sales people away: "I have some extra 'blank' from a job and an give it to you cheap", but criminals know when someone takes that stuff seriously they have been warned and more likely than not aren't just regular family in condition white.
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Old August 19, 2011, 10:09 AM   #17
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Guess you can't wear a .45 around your neck in the shower.
I've heard of soap-on-a-rope, but Colt-on-a-rope might an idea...patent office, here I come...

I would think that the chances are pretty good that if homeowner displays that he/she can and will defend themselves and begins to do so, armed or not criminals are habitually opportunists and will likely hightail it at first sign of armed resistance.

Blanket statement, I realize. Alarms are always a good idea...unless you rent...
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Old August 19, 2011, 11:09 AM   #18
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Well if I am sitting in my living room watching tv then I am in good hands because I keep my ar15 right next to me for coyotes.

If I am taking a shower its not got for me no guns come with me into the shower. So unless the sight of a fat white guy with a small "cough" makes them start laughing and lose focus that may give me some sort of tactical advantage.
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Old August 19, 2011, 12:51 PM   #19
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The victims were finally able to free themselves around 3am and called 911. No one was injured.
In this case doing nothing worked. No injuries and no deaths equals a win in situations such as this.
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Old August 19, 2011, 12:57 PM   #20
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IMO anyone who doesn't have a large dog nowadays is very short sighted. They are not going to silently kill the dog! They will loudly kill the dog, maybe. Five intruders do not mean Seal Team 6 is coming in. This would be a bunch of undisciplined punks working together and the more layers you give them the sooner they will break off and run. The dog will alert you to their presence soon enough to let you get a gun and engage them.

It will happen fast. Have your gun on you or close. Walk around your house and look how you would attack this house and gain entry if you were (a perp). Now you can see what and how to fortify it so that you slow them down from entry.
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Old August 19, 2011, 01:24 PM   #21
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Deleted two posts for political silliness. Be warned and don't go there.

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Old August 19, 2011, 02:12 PM   #22
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Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?
One of my closest buddies is a police detective that works a very violent area. He constantly tells people that they have to be crazy to leave their house without being armed.

My wife is currently visiting our daughter that lives in that neighborhood of CT. They are a family of two girls and both parents work full-time jobs. There is a dog in the house but could not be considered a watch dog by any stretch of the imagination. My daughter and her husband are very anti-gun and refuse to have any conversation that has the word "gun" in it. So very strange in that my other two kids are LEO's. Go figure.

I tried to educate them about home defense after the last notable incident that happened in the same neighborhood. It fell on deaf ears. It boils down to those that are pro-active and those that rely on nothing more than dumb luck and faith that they will not be a victim. Not much different than sticking one's head in the sand.

If you are a member of this Forum or a frequent visitor, you are pro-active and probably have a plan in place. What can one do to help those that would not help themselves? They have no intention of getting another dog and they have a basic alarm system that sometimes gets turned on and sometimes it doesn't.
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Old August 19, 2011, 02:41 PM   #23
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What can one do to help those that would not help themselves?
I don't believe there is anything one can do?

Sadly enough, my fiancee may be in that camp. Doesn't like guns either, doesn't even like that I have them, despite the fact that she grew up around them.

I would like to say that if push came to shove, she would go get one of them as I always tell her where they are and their status. I would like to tell you that if endangered, she would use it...I would really like to tell you that...
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Old August 19, 2011, 03:01 PM   #24
Daugherty16
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Ignorance is not safety. Amazing how many think it is...

When you've never had:

a break-in
a car jacking
an armed assault
a mugging
a rape
a friend or family member murdered
drive-by shooting
bullet holes in your front windows
and etc.

it is easy to lull oneself into the false security that comes with such good fortune, or maybe lack of misfortune. admittedly i was raised in an affluent suburb, with no real crime except what my friends and i caused ourselves, and i went around for years thinking i was safe.

Then the Petit home invasion happened only 20 miles away in a town just like mine. So now i have a CCW, plenty of firepower, and my family thinks i'm paranoid because i carry a pistol most of the time. Now this newest home invasion, only 15 miles in a different direction.

Thanks all the same, i'll take my "paranoia" over complacency and ignorance. I'm in good company on TFL. And actually, i'm tired of pointing out that "preparedness" is not synonymous with "paranoia"

Thanks for the ideas. I would like to hear more about securing a 5' sliding glass door.
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Old August 19, 2011, 03:01 PM   #25
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You could have a plan in your head with escape routes, safe rooms, choke point, etc. Of course planning and having to actually employ the plan are two totally different things. The only thing I see as a potential bad outcome in this situation is that a perp or two HAD guns. If they see you retrieving your firearm a shootout is most likely to occur. Also, if you have a 1911 or other pistol that doesn't hold 10+ rounds, you HAVE to make sure each shot counts. I'm sure many here have extra mags, but you may not think to grab another mag in all the chaos. A revolver is even more difficult to reload quickly.

Tough one.

Of course is all IMO...
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