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Old January 21, 2000, 11:19 PM   #1
Oleg Volk
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Just came back from the range. The pistol lanes were about 2/3 female...inlcuding some rather obvious lesbian couples with interesting guns (.44 cowboy revolvers which they used to good effect) and a lot of other couples, too.

In the rifle bay (which was populated mostly by older Vietnamese for tonight) I ran into two cops with .45 and .40 Glocks who really could shoot! Wouldn't want to mess with them.

So there, two stereotypes so favored on TFL and other boards bite the dust. Of couse, I am only talking about a tiny sample here...

BTW, I have faith in the future in part because I saw gun owners evolve from the critters going ape**** in Bower's to civilized and gentle discourse at TFL...and I fully expect us to outgrow the latest frustrations as well.

For obligatory gun content: I shot a USP45 and Glock 21 side by side...the USP is a lovely sporting gun...I'd trust the G21 to save my butt in combat. SImpler manual of arms outweights lesser trigger, sighter and heavier recoil.

BTW, I would imagine $450 is a decent price for a used G21 in very good shape with two 13rd mags, right?

------------------
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Old January 22, 2000, 05:43 AM   #2
fubsy
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Its an acceptable price, It might lean in the hi-side depending upon condition of the pistol, does it have night sights? if so its a good price. Check the magazines closely to ensure they are in good condition and are originals,---try and get em to throw in one of those pc 10 rounders, so you'll have a practice mag and save the hi-caps......jmo...fubsy.
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Old January 22, 2000, 06:45 AM   #3
George Hill
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Stereotypes are not a good thing.
Generally the only stereotypes I recognize is that liberals are idiots and Glock owners are emotional.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 22, 2000, 08:37 AM   #4
Bud Helms
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Yes, stereotypes are the shortcuts we make for ourselves because we are lazy. Not much good comes from them except some pretty funny jokes.

I have been thimkin' ... after Futo's "Lesbians Are Cool" post and Oleg's observations at the range, I could learn to be more tolerant, I think.

When you find you have a passion as deeply held as the RKBA in common with someone who represents a group you deeply despise (or simply dismiss), you realize you have an ally. Which implies a potential friend.

Remember you can't choose your siblings or parents, but you CHOOSE your buddies (and allies when you can). I've already decided that there are some Democrats that deserve our support due to their stance on the Second. They are usually conservative in general, too. Now that one was hard for me.

What I can't abide are the attempts to create a (IMHO) protected class of citizens. But mostly I protest using my tax money (collected by threat of force) for the practice of political advocacy for social causes that are not yet agreed on by the general citizenry.

However, since this forum is for the advancement of responsible firearms ownership, let me get to the point. If we temporarily suspend the rhetoric (not accusing anyone here) and concentrate on preserving the Second and promoting RKBA, all fellow citizens not exactly like me are welcome to join me in this cause.

So, there!

------------------
Sensop

"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
Sensop's Corner


[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 22, 2000).]
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Old January 22, 2000, 10:37 AM   #5
Oleg Volk
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all fellow citizens not exactly like me are welcome to join me in this cause.

Every time I look in the mirror or re-read my own posts, I am thankful that others are not exactly like me. The world would have been too aggravating (or too boring) had we all been the same.

That said, no one better declare me a protected class (ADLs efforts nonwithstanding). In talking to a friend from Russia, I tried to explain that Walter Williams and not Jesse Jackson examplifies the Blacks I respect, JPFO and not ADL or any other of that nasty passel of "Jewish" orgs speak for me, and so on. Disliking gays or Catholics or Mormons or whatever based on what "their" organizations claim is not always productive because people have ursurped the claim to speak for others since the dawn of history.

In talking to my neighbors (like the one at http://dd-b.net/olegv/kelly , the one with a Makarov), I have come to an impression that they despise anyone trying to further legislate the nitty-gritty of their status. Live and Let Live works for them as well as for most gun owners I have met.

Unfortunately, a small number of "us" drive many people away with words, actions and cattle prods. I may spend $80 and half a day to take my neighbors to the range and show them some legal and historic info on RKBA...and some retard from Bower's or TFL (who is not representative of the rest of TFL regulars but that's not much help) will undo my eforts in one ill-conceived post. On Bower's, every other monkey would agree that such-and-such are not God's chosen and therefore scum...at least on TFL we can have civilized debates which would, hopefully, keep any pro or neutral newcomers from fleeing at once.

I will ask one question of a Pagan, Christian, Jew, pinguin, GLBT, leftist and so on: can you live and let live? That includes not hindering my ability to fight you if need be. A decent person, no matter what background, would say "yes", as they have no plans to do me in and thus no reason to be concerned about my resistance capabilities. If they cannot say yes, they are not an ally, no matter what else they say.

But almost every neutral, enemy or unaligned person can be won over...if we refrain from making very certain that THEY view us as the enemy of their lifestyle and character. Leftists might have a choice, but very few gays would choose to be what they are given a chance to escape persecution by conforming. We see it very vividly in public behavior of bi folks -- they have some choice and most de-emphasize their gay side to confirm to the social mores of the time and place. Some folks haven't a choice, moreover, their private lives are just that and as long as they can at least consider extending the same courtesy to me -- they are potential allies.

Don't compromise your beliefs. But tread very lightly on others' -- for others may have already done damage before you got there.

------------------
Oleg

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[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited January 22, 2000).]
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Old January 22, 2000, 01:33 PM   #6
Futo Inu
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Exactly, sensop and Oleg! Those are exactly the kind of responses I expected from folks on the other thread.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited January 22, 2000).]
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Old January 22, 2000, 02:46 PM   #7
Bud Helms
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It's true. Glock owners seem very excitable.
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Old January 22, 2000, 02:51 PM   #8
DC
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Excitable Boy....Warren Zevon

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Old January 22, 2000, 04:05 PM   #9
Dan
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Oleg-
Were there any lesbian cops on the range?

George-
Stop pickin on us Glock guys, I have feelings and your hurting them.

Sorry guys....couldn't resist....

------------------
Dan

Si vis pacem para bellum!

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Old January 22, 2000, 04:18 PM   #10
Long Path
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Oops. Double tap.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited January 22, 2000).]
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Old January 22, 2000, 04:22 PM   #11
Long Path
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Sure, DC, it's all fun and games when it's just biting "...the usherette's leg in the dark..." but we begin to take it seriously when:
"Ten years later, he got out of the home
Excitable boy, they all said.
And he dug up her grave
And filled a cage with her bones...
Excitable boy, they all said.

Well he's just an excitable boy...."



Ya gotta nip it in the bud....


Moving to George's forum (Reports From the Range), because, weirdly tied-in or not, this is a true Range Report thread...

NOTE: This thread is NOT closed; just moved! Don't get in a tizzy!
------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt


[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited January 22, 2000).]
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Old January 22, 2000, 05:00 PM   #12
Gorthaur
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But mostly I protest using my tax money (collected by threat of force) for the practice of political advocacy for social causes that are not yet agreed on by the general citizenry.[/quote]
Sensop, I feel your pain. Gun owners pay taxes that are used against them all of the time. I'd love to see some of my taxes used to support Ranges and shooter education (clever how I worked that in, huh?). However, the situation with respect to the gay community is currently very nearly one of taxation without representation.
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Old January 22, 2000, 07:20 PM   #13
Bud Helms
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Nah. I'm not going for that bait. Nice try.
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Old January 23, 2000, 01:18 AM   #14
Guy B. Meredith
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Oleg,

Speaking of stereotypes, how is it that an evil, drooling, bloodthirsty gun freak can be a sensitive photographer? Or visa versa?

We have all types at our range. The most interesting is one individual with a ponytail and voluptuous bossom--and a high male voice.

Haven't had occasion to be able to politely inquire as to whether she is a shemale or transexual. Very helpful with other shooters when she is at the range and seems to know her way around a variety of firearms.

The second time I saw her she came up to our group setting up for PPC and received a big on-the-mouth kiss from the 60 something (and very hetero) range officer. Guess they know each other and makes me very curious to know something of her story.

The first time I saw her was at a distance. I perceived that she might prefer the girls and so contained my normal reaction to tall well proportioned females--mindless drooling and grabbing on to my wedding ring like it is a protective talisman against stupidity (don't like big bossoms, though).

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Old January 23, 2000, 02:27 AM   #15
Gorthaur
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M'kay. I have an acquaintance who, from an early age, felt more female than male. When he was old enough, he joined the Army, figuring that that would make a man of him.

Long story short, he ended up in the 82nd Airborne. The 82nd Airborne. He loved it! Sharpshooter, tank driver, paratrooper, the whole nine yards.

After he got out, he had no doubt what to do next. She's now doing the hormones, the counseling, and has been dressing like a woman for a couple of years. She was, and is still, attracted to women. My sister, specifically.

Her firearm of choice is the AK-47. She shoots it in their back yard range, along with a variety of other longarms. I really haven't gotten to spend much time with them, but I'm hoping to get her interested in handguns, and more modern firearms.

[This message has been edited by Gorthaur (edited January 23, 2000).]
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Old January 23, 2000, 01:47 PM   #16
Bud Helms
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg Volk:
all fellow citizens not exactly like me are welcome to join me in this cause.

.........

Every time I look in the mirror or re-read my own posts, I am thankful that others are not exactly like me. The world would have been too aggravating (or too boring) had we all been the same.
[/quote]

Oleg, Gorthauer,

I think we are in agreement. Somtimes my efforts at "tongue in cheek" don't come through as intended. " ... not exactly like me ..." was intended to be an example of that.

------------------
Sensop

"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
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Old January 24, 2000, 03:24 AM   #17
George Hill
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Dan - I have nothing against Glock owners... That was a joke... one that hits fairly close.
In all fairness - I must admit that I at one point in time actually owned a Glock 17. This was when it first came out and many people didnt like it for its Plastic. It was miss named Glock 7 by many people and was feared as the Weapon of Choice for terrorists of the future. I even remember a news report on it when a report carried one past White House security undetected. Ceramic and plastic - it was a threat to security! When in fact it was Steel all the time. People just didnt know what the heck it was. I knew. I liked it at the time.
I showed it to several folks - including police officers. Soon the department I shown it to adopted it. Glocks became the choice in my circle of friends - and soon everyone I saw at the gun shops was getting one! Heck - if I was Al Gore I could say I invented the Glock in America!

Okay - enough of this... I am going back to my Root Beer!

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 29, 2000, 10:26 AM   #18
Svt
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At my local club, some of the great shooters there are women. Granted, they are lesbians and do have biceps bigger then my thighs but nonetheless, they shoot very well.
Glock owners are emotional.

------------------
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Son's Place

Guns don't kill innocent people. Democrats kill innocent people.
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Old January 31, 2000, 02:57 AM   #19
George Hill
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Okay... I'm going to lock this down...
If anyone one wants to start a part II - lets call it People At the Range... OK?


------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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