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Old August 14, 2011, 06:50 PM   #26
chadstrickland
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Let some of the other guys with more experience confirm or say otherwise before you take it to heart..but I believe 1 in 9 is for 55/62 grain bullets and 1 in 7 is for 75/77 grain bullets..

And remember..brownells have great customer service and normally has everything in stock...but they are mighty proud of there stuff
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Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..
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Old August 14, 2011, 07:20 PM   #27
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62g Fusion from my 1 in 9 M&P 15 filled all my tags and bonus antlerless tags. The furthest any of them went was about 20 yds. Good Luck. Your welcome to hunt Burnett county WI if ya want. Lotsa deer. I got 2 with my car last fall.
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Old August 14, 2011, 07:35 PM   #28
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Use a 20" barrel to get decent velocity out of the 60 grain Nosler Partition. Another usefull bullet is the Hornady 60 grain soft point. I've seen either of these kill deer successfully.
It's not that the 223 won't kill a deer, it's just that there are so many other cartridges that are so much better at the job.
My kids have killed a lot of deer with the 223 but I was always sitting beside them with a REAL GUN to finish the job if needed. I also closely controlled the actual shot and most of the time, the animal was broadside in the open with a considerable distance from cover.
I can only say that it's not IF you screw up and lose a deer it's HOW LONG until it happens.
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Old August 15, 2011, 10:35 AM   #29
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Ok so I decided to go with the m&p 15 MOE dark earth because everytime I build an ar on the internet I get done and I'm around 1300 or more to have one the way I like. And a local guy to me is an ffl and he said he can get me said m&p for 1015.87 out the door from buds it comes to 990 but I've heard horror stories about that place and I know ill have my gun inside a week through my guy so ill pay the extra 25 lol. I'm probably gonna buy a lower at a local gun show this weekend and start building my gun but I'm getting the m&p first because I hve yet t find someone who bought one and doesn't like it.
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Old August 15, 2011, 11:33 AM   #30
tirod
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Shop that price on the M&P. I think you could get it cheaper.

I built a deer gun from the ground up. The parts aren't that hard to assemble, I don't need a gunsmith to tell me how it functions, as I've used one 22 years free from Uncle Sam. It did teach me things about the AR they either never said or I already forgot.

For hunting, launching the bullet is what it's all about, like fishing, once on the hook, what the label on the reel says isn't very important to the fish. Most uppers and lowers are basically a commodity item, you decide how much of a premium you're willing to pay for a rollmark, and maybe what color anodizing. I bought an AGP lower and blem LAR upper, with less than $150 in BOTH. Shop it, you can beat that with a known quality vendor. It just won't have the internet commando's seal of acceptance on it.

Caliber, barrel, gas length, then upper, stock, grip, forearm, last trigger. If you are building for deer, then the effective maximum range is 300m. At 50-60 yards - which is average for a lot of whitetail hunting, 5.56 will do the job. I choose 6.8, to carry 40% MORE power downrange, and reduce the number of poor shots letting game get away. I've lost deer to other hunters with a .30-06, shot placement is important - so my focus is on accurate fast first shots, and accurate fast followup shots. Whitetails don't pose for hunters, and one more bullet in them can make a serious difference. Scoped bolt guns are popular here, I lost that deer using one, and I can tell you many others blaze away with them, too. The recoil and loading work against you. I won't do it again.

I choose 16" as 6.8 was designed for 14.5", and that's already long enough. Midlength gas is appropriate for 16". The upper was A3 for the optic rail, red dots are my #1 deer optic since 1978 because you can get on target quicker without hunting for the game or which end you're aiming at. In the 50-200 yard range, a 3X scope hinders the hunter more than helps. Stock, simple A1 as the length of pull works for me in winter clothing, and I can still shoot nose to the charging handle. Grip was a TD Battlegrip for size - buy the right one first and avoid the little parts on the multisized ones. Grip emphasis on a two handed weapon supported at the shoulder is overdone. I put a rifle handguard on it to extend my support hand and protect it from a cold barrel - or hot one at the range. The front sight got mounted dissipator, and I don't have fiddle with them to use it, they're up and available if poor conditions or the optic doesn't work. The issue sights are also $120 cheaper than BUIS, and I didn't have to pay $250 for a front sight mount - also known as a quad rail. Free floats DON'T make barrels more accurate, they just keep sling tension off the barrel. If you hunt in a tree stand or blind, you likely don't use a sling as it limits you moving to sight in on the target. 2MOA is all you need for hunting anyway - that's an 8" circle at 400m, and most of us can't see deer that far out anyway. Terrain and vegetation severely limit our visual ability.

I put the trigger last because most hunting and target triggers use an adjustable take up screw to limit creep. The AGP lower came with one installed, it cut about 65% of it, and made it as good as the trigger on my Win 94 and Rem 700. I don't like superlight target triggers on guns, as my hunting is on rough terrain with lots of underbrush - just like field conditions in the Army, who already discovered 6-8 pounds is the safe threshold for tired soldiers. At the end of a long day - hunting or when I was in training over 22 years - negligent discharges aren't the answer to the bragging rights of owning a $250 trigger. Especially when a $40 add on screw can do almost as well, and safely.

An M4gery could do ok as a deer rifle, I've selected my parts to do the job better for me, based on my experience for what I need. Noisy adjustable stocks and short handguards aren't optimum for what I have in mind, and neither was a varmint cartridge. 6.8SPC carries the minimum 1000 foot pounds of energy beyond 300 yards easily, it don't have to accept deliberately cutting off my shots, or question whether it's good enough at the limit of my ability. What I have to work on is getting the right shot while I can first, and not worrying about any limitations with the gun. For what it does, it's already proven as a great cartridge and more than what many would expect in the size of gun offered.
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Old August 15, 2011, 05:24 PM   #31
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If I were to use an AR for whitetail, it would have a 20" barrel and it would not be chambered in 5.56mm. I would go with 6.8mm SPC, 6.5mm Grendel, or .308 Win.
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Old August 15, 2011, 05:36 PM   #32
Mr.Blue
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IMHO Using a .223 to hunt deer is irresponsible and cruel. There are much better rounds for hunting deer that will produce a quick humane kill. What is the point of using such a small round? The woman who shoots caribou with a .223 is a cruel idiot. I wouldn't use less than a 30-06 for Caribou.

I'm not against hunting at all. I just think we need to be humane about it, using a suitable cartridge.

Last edited by Mr.Blue; August 15, 2011 at 06:09 PM.
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Old August 15, 2011, 09:38 PM   #33
zachkuby87
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Well mr blue just like your sig suggests opinions are like *******s everyone's got em and they all stink. Now imho there is nothing cruel about using .223 for whitetail as mentioned before its rare for a shot to reach out over 50-60 yards. At those distances the .223 will have no problems dropping a whitetail with a well placed shot and if you can't make a well placed shot at 50 yards you have no business hunting in the first place. Now for longer shots I have plenty of options for rifles such as endless 30-30's at our camp at least 6 or 7 30-06's a .270 or two. Also we have a few people at our camp use .223 and it hasn't stopped them from making clean kills. If it doesn't work out for me at all for whatever reason I will use something else I'm going with the ar purely because I can and I want to not because its optimal. Thats why I love this country I have the ablility to hunt with what I choose.
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Old August 15, 2011, 10:30 PM   #34
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If it's legal, you can do it. That doesn't make it ethical. I just don't see what someone gains by using an inferior (for large game) round. It's not like it involves more skill than if you used a .270. If you like the idea of having to take close shots, use a 30-30 with irons. I wouldn't use anything less than a 30-30 on deer. If you want to use an AR, get one chambered in 6.8sp or 6.5 Grendel. Even better, get an AR10. That will be my next firearm purchase, as I already have multiple ARs in 5.56.

In some states .223 is illegal to use on deer. There is a reason for that. It's not sporting to use a .223 on a large game animal. Sure, a head shot or perfect heart shot will kill a deer, but you have less margin for error with the .223. What if it hits a thick bone? The .223 might not penetrate enough, leaving the animal to run off and die a slow miserable death. I was taught that a true sportsman brings enough rifle to the hunt.

I believe most people (may not be your case) who hunt deer with .233 are mall ninja types looking for a chance to use their AR on flesh. I bet I could kill a moose with a .22lr, but what would I gain by doing so?

Good luck. I hope you change your mind. I hope your aim is true.

Last edited by Mr.Blue; August 16, 2011 at 01:17 AM.
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:16 AM   #35
mc223
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Here come them bulletproof deer again.
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:17 AM   #36
M.O.A.
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HAha the 223 well kill just as dead as anything else will and do it just as fast. ive seen more dear shot and lost with a slug gun than any othere gun and there legal in all states its all on how well you shoot and the bullet you us.


and zack the 1-9 twist well shoot up to a 69gn bullet so if you hand load i would shoot the hornaday 70gn gmx. for they are a hunting bullet


but i have hear the 68gn amax and the bthp match do the jobe real nice. i have taken one nice buck with the 68gner bthp match and it droped dead in its tracks
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:24 AM   #37
.300 Weatherby Mag
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My question... Unless its the only rifle you have why would you hunt deer with a cartridge that's marginal for the task??

It's not even a option for me as my state mandates the use of 6mm and larger cartridges on deer...
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:25 AM   #38
Mr.Blue
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Bullet proof deer? Don't be ignorant.

.223 doesn't even kill humans all the time. Ask our military why many clamor for a more powerful round. Deer tend to be heartier than humans and often run off and die slowly.

Light bullets are also more easily affected by wind and brush.

Just answer one question: what do you get out of using such a marginal caliber? If you use a .270 are you less skilled as a hunter?

I'd bet that most of those that use a .223 AR on deer are under 30 years old and don't have the same respect for the animal that previous generations of hunters did.

Last edited by Mr.Blue; August 16, 2011 at 01:21 AM.
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Old August 16, 2011, 12:28 AM   #39
Mr.Blue
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Quote:
My question... Unless its the only rifle you have why would you hunt deer with a cartridge that's marginal for the task??
Because ARs are waaay cooool, dude! It's like what the soldiers use. I can pretend I'm in Afghanistan chasing Taliban. Besides, bolt actions are for old farts. They don't look as tacticool either. I never saw any SEALs use a bolt action rifle.

I give up. Maybe these guys are recoil sensitive. My 118lb. Wife used my 30-06 on a deer last season. If she can handle it, any man can.

This is not meant to single the OP out. He appears to be a good guy. I just get frustrated with today's hunters. I am only 39, but I was taught right by two WWII vet grandfathers and a Vietnam vet Marine father. Bring enough gun. Respect the game animals. If you miss with your first shot, you don't deserve a second. Etc, etc, etc.

Last edited by Mr.Blue; August 16, 2011 at 01:22 AM.
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Old August 16, 2011, 07:00 AM   #40
Lloyd Smale
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ive shot a number of crop damage whitetail does with a 223 ar using nos partitions out to 200 yards. I dont think a single one of them made more then 30 yards after the shot. I shoot deer with everything from a 223 to a 8mag. The question was asked why shoot deer with a 223 when you have a bigger gun well the same thing can be said about shooting deer with a 300 wby mag when you have a smaller gun. I like shooting deer with differnt guns and calibers and about know what works and what doesnt. Not from others advice or internet wisdom but from actually shooting deer myself. Any deer hit by a nos partition out of a 223 out to 250 yards that doesnt die quickly is not the fault of the bullet or gun. Its because the bullet wasnt placed where it was suppose to have been.
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Old August 16, 2011, 08:35 AM   #41
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Enough

The discussion had veered away from the OP's question.
Closed.
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