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Old August 23, 2011, 08:37 AM   #1
Mainah
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Question For Hunting Dog Owners

We just got an 18 month Rotti/Shepherd mix. She's a good dog, easy to train so far. With one major exception- she chases our indoor cats, to the extent that one lost a claw on a wall he bounced off this morning in an attempt to escape her. Her prey drive is through the roof.

I'm hoping to channel this outside into some bird work, maybe coyotes too. But does anyone have advice on how to get her to leave the cats alone? Thanks.
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Old August 23, 2011, 09:09 AM   #2
dalegribble
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sorry, i just don't understand the question
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Old August 23, 2011, 09:16 AM   #3
hogdogs
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Cattle Prod... Best $70.00 I ever spent...

All of the dogs used for hog huntin' are intentionally HIGH PREY DRIVE...

We don't allow dog aggression (cats are always fair game by any creature or means here) but the occasional "yard fight" caused by any number of things (food, in heat, new gyp, pups etc.) and the prod not only works great to halt the initial battle but it is also excellent for reminding all involved that I make the rules and break all the attitudes around here...

One "bump" is all it usually takes to introduce them to the new "lightning stick" and from there, actual electrified contact is rarely needed!

Brent
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Old August 23, 2011, 09:19 AM   #4
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As for directing prey drive, I only know hoggin' but any task is great... If the dog has a fetch game etc.... teach him "NO" to cats but wear him out doin' a game he likes... If he has a "job" to look forward to, he can redirect and control the prey drive from what I understand.

Brent
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Old August 23, 2011, 10:12 AM   #5
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You want to try and make a bird dog out of a Rotti/Shepard mix? I've seen a lot of dogs do some amazing things out hunting but I've never seen that type animal hunt birds, the instincts are not normally there.

I had a good friend, more like a grandfather, that had a Blue Heeler that retrieved his doves, ran his deer, herded his cattle and anything else he could ask of it. When he passed, the dog went missing. They found him laying at the headstone of his grave, brought him home and he went straight back to the grave. Over time when the dog was missing, they'd just go right to the cemetary and there they'd find the dog. Loyalty is something that dogs can teach a lot of people in a world of selfishness.

Anything is possible though. I saw a Dalmation that was a heck of a retriever. I've sold a bred many a GSP that put most labs and Chessies to shame in a duck blind too.
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Old August 23, 2011, 10:28 AM   #6
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I have seen one bulldog that could do "personal protection" drills, catch a hog and "soft mouth" both upland style and water fowl retrieve...

She is from the same litter as my 2 sister catch dogs... american bulldog X pitbull... One of mine might be able to do this too but there ain't a chance in heck the other would bring it back let alone soft mouth.

She has 2 bites... If you think this'n hurts... you don't wanna see the next one

Brent
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Old August 23, 2011, 11:12 AM   #7
ClayInTx
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The question is not if the dog will hunt, but is how to make the dog leave the cats alone.

Almost any domestic animal can learn short words which are consistently used for the same thing. They quickly learn “NO” or “NO NO”, especially if followed by a scolding if not obeyed. Dogs dread being scolded.

Scolding usually out does a cattle prod.

When your dog starts after the cats you must quickly intervene with a “NO NO” and a scolding. The dog is probably just wanting to play with the cats and the cats are reacting as if they are prey.

The pets will likely never become real good friends but they must all learn that you are family, the dog is family, the cats are family, and we all better learn to get along.
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Old August 23, 2011, 04:50 PM   #8
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Get a sprotdog 1800 electric shock collar, charge up the battery set it to the highest level place collar on dogs neck, wait for dog to go for cats hit the juice button hard let it burn in. After a few of these that dog will leave the cats alone. In a dog fight however it will keep them fighting as the shocked dog thinks the other dog is doing that to him so be carefull.

18 month Rotti/Shepherd mix will not be much of a bird dog, good luck on that.

In a dog to dog fight, I grab a set of legs and swing em around awhile, they soon learn to stop the fighting. I got 6 GSPs and they all work together or they get a swing.
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Old August 24, 2011, 04:28 PM   #9
Mainah
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Thanks everyone. I realize that the bird option isn't too realistic. LL Bean is having their bit hunting event in Freeport this weekend. They always have a bunch of dogs and hunters to speak with, I'll bring her down.
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Old August 27, 2011, 02:52 PM   #10
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Treats work. Keep the dog calm and the cats at a distance. Get the dog to associate cats with getting treats.
It worked to a degree with our dog. We still have to keep an eye on him. Very much improved though.
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Old August 28, 2011, 11:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Get a sprotdog 1800 electric shock collar, charge up the battery set it to the highest level place collar on dogs neck, wait for dog to go for cats hit the juice button hard let it burn in. After a few of these that dog will leave the cats alone. In a dog fight however it will keep them fighting as the shocked dog thinks the other dog is doing that to him so be carefull.
MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, THIS IS BY FAR THE WORST ADVISE EVER GIVEN ABOUT DOG TRAINING. YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO OWN ONE.

I train dogs on a daily basis for both my self and clients. I use E-collars every time my dogs come out of the kennel and most of them can't wait to put it on since they know it means they get to work. An E-Collar is a correction tool not a training tool. The dog has to know why it is getting the burn so he/she can turn it off. A collar should never be used out of frustration or anger. I think every dog owner should get trained how to use a E-Collar and how to use it right. They are great tools when used correctly.

If you look within your community you will find many jobs for your dog to do that require very little training. However, nothing beats hunting with a well trained dog, it is very rewarding. Good luck with your new pet.
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Old August 29, 2011, 12:06 AM   #12
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I'd look into the following...

First, build trust.

You just got this dog, and you missed out on a lot of critical development time already since it is a year and a half old. No worries, however, you should take some time to build a trusting relationship with the young dog / old pup.

Second, teach it that the cats belong to YOU.

Use reward and correction to teach it that it should NOT pay any attention to the cats. Food rewards work well with most dogs. The correction simply needs to communicate that the behavior is NOT acceptable, and can be a simple verbal cue like "NO" with a little tug on the leash. The correction must be consistent, and strong enough to get the dogs attention and stop the behavior, but can't be so strong as to break the spirit of the dog, or injure it.

I'd start with the dog in the sit, and reward it for the sit. Introduce the cats into the dogs vision. When you see the dog look at the cats and start to move toward them, correct with a "NO", and when the dog starts to ignore the cats, reward with food and a "yes". Eventually, the dog will figure it out and leave the cats alone.

It'll take some time, however, with consistency, the dog will understand what you expect out of it and will comply.
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Old August 29, 2011, 12:39 PM   #13
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Anybody have a meeting with the dog to get his input on the situation? Maybe let him give a power point expressing his views.

Some dogs can never be fully trained. You should expect a level of behavior appropriate to s family pet, but some dogs can't be working dogs.
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Old August 29, 2011, 04:54 PM   #14
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An E-Collar is a correction tool not a training tool.
The method I posted is how the real pros train snake avoidance. It works for cats or anything you do not want the dog to run. That is the only way I use an e collar. I use other methods to train my dogs like the way we did it before e collars.

Dont belive me? try www.gundogforum.com search out snake avoidance etc.

BTW I will be at the amtuer AKC nationals in Iowa in oct if you wish to see the real deal on hunting dogs.
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Old August 29, 2011, 06:53 PM   #15
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BTW I will be at the amtuer AKC nationals in Iowa in oct if you wish to see the real deal on hunting dogs.
I see the real deal every day when I train. I also know that taking a dog that has not been collar conditioned and burning the heck out of it is abuse.
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Old August 30, 2011, 02:59 PM   #16
markj
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http://www.xtremeoutdoorgundogs.com/...e-classes.html

Well these pro trainers do it all the time. Read on their method, it works.

Fla folks also do this for labs and copperheads, funny you never heard of it and you are a pro? Retriever tests? We do pointing dogs, go to branched oaks for field trials etc.
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Old August 30, 2011, 05:39 PM   #17
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Well these pro trainers do it all the time
We use "Real Live RattleSnakes" handled by a professional venomous snake handler/expert which practices these techniques on a weekly basis at seminars all over Texas. The snakes are fully De-Fanged with mouth surgically stapled shut. Though the snakes are completely harmless, they still pack an incredible punch in conjunction with the E-Collar which is designed to carry a long lasting impression and scare your dog so that they avoid all snakes at all costs.

Hum, it does not say any thing about having a person with no training experience use a collar they have no idea how to use, to burn the heck out of a dog that has never been collar conditioned.

And for that matter a nice web site and people willing to pay them for their dogs and advice does not make them any more of a professional than I am.

I have discovered that there are many people in the dog world who wish to be classified as a dog trainer even though they have no idea what they are doing with a dog. For all I know they fit that description.
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Old August 30, 2011, 06:18 PM   #18
WIN71
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Play instinct

Deep down the behavior probably has its roots in the "Prey instinct" however chasing indoor cats around the house is closer to the "play instinct" My wife has a Bassett Hound that chased her cat all over the house. We corrected most of the problem in a manner suggested by TeanSinglestack. Just like any other bad habit.

Over literally thousands of generations certain breeds were bread that way in order to exhibit certain desired traits for the task at hand. Pointers, Springer’s, Retrievers, Guard, Herding, and on and on. With offspring from two very different breeds there is no telling what the dog will have as far as natural inbred characteristics

You have an offspring from a guard dog and a herding dog. Take it out hunting birds and see what natural ability the dog may exhibit. Work on the talents he may have. Sometimes about all you can hope for is a dog that will bring you whatever you kill.
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Old August 31, 2011, 04:34 PM   #19
markj
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I have discovered that there are many people in the dog world who wish to be classified as a dog trainer even though they have no idea what they are doing with a dog. For all I know they fit that description.
You might be right there as I dont know these folks just pulled a page off google. I do however know some good trainers out your way that do snake training in this way. I have done it as well, I am not a pro tho just been doing dogs for 50 years. Many of my pups are now FC MH etc.

Do it right and the cats will be OK, my 6 dogs leave my cats alone and they hunt fine. I also use in ground electric fences to keep them in a 5 acre area.

I have found that if you bring in a kitten the dog may adopt it and you have no issues, bring in a dog and have full grown cats you will have issues. Gotta teach the dog cats are off limits.

Good luck to the OP, hope you can get this fixed before you come home to a dead cat.
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Old September 1, 2011, 08:35 AM   #20
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I'll agree that e-collars are touchy and it takes a person that knows what they are doing to get the hang of em. They aren't just a strap it on and hit the button kinda tool. But for breaking dogs they can be pretty much brainless. Dog chases undesirable game, hit the button. The biggest issue I've seen/had is with hounds/curs at night or out of sight. YOU HAVE TO KNOW 100% WHAT THE DOG IS DOING. Not think it's doing wrong but know it. I won't train any dog from here on out with out the aid of a collar. Anything from basic commands to field work. But you have to know what you are doing, what the dog is doing and not over do it with frequency of use or high settings.

But it doesn't take a dog with much of a brain to learn that critters around the place are off limits even without a e-collar. If your dog can't figure it out it doesn't say much for the dog.

As for hunting with your dog. Give up on the idea. It takes more than wanting to chase and/or kill to make a hunting dog of any sort and even a professional would have a slim to none chance of making your dog even a mediocre hunting dog. I had a Malamute/husky mix years ago that was a chicken killin machine. Also liked to kill possums when he could see em. Even so, it would of made one of the worst hunting dogs on the planet.

Now if you're just wanting a buddy to go out in the field with you that may be another matter. IF ( and I mean big IF) you can keep him close and under control 100% OF THE TIME he won't hinder you at all and just the presence of a dog will make birds and game do weird stuff. Also helps cover more ground because unless the dog walks right in front of you or right behind, he might help scare up a few birds or rabbits you might of walked by.

LK

Last edited by L_Killkenny; September 1, 2011 at 08:44 AM.
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