The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 12, 2011, 05:01 PM   #1
Nashville
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5
Leaving firearm in car while drinking? Illegal?

I live in Tennessee, where it is legal to carry in an establishment that serves alcohol, as long as you are not drinking. My question is this: If I want to have a beer with friends after work, and I leave my firearm in the car, is it legal to drive home with that weapon in the vehicle, having drank alcohol?

Let me also say that I do not need replies telling me about the irresponsibility of drinking while carrying a weapon, I am just asking about the legality of this scenario. I would never impair myself with alcohol in a manner that affects my ability to make responsible decisions.

Thoughts?
Nashville is offline  
Old August 12, 2011, 05:05 PM   #2
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
No legal advice from me but common sense says that if it is unloaded and locked up where it is inaccessible to the driver you should be good to go. Just don't get caught up in an accident or traffic stop where your alcohol use could constitute grounds for a search of your vehicle.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old August 12, 2011, 05:51 PM   #3
JerryM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 1999
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,884
The state police and/or licensing agency are better places to ask the question if you want accurate answers.
Jerry
__________________
Ecclesiastes 12:13 *¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 *For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
JerryM is offline  
Old August 12, 2011, 11:36 PM   #4
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 2,002
One thing you do have to consider is leaving a weapon unattended in your vehicle could result in another stolen weapon in the hands of a criminal.

Don't drink while you are carrying, and don't leave your weapon unattended.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old August 12, 2011, 11:48 PM   #5
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 7,206
Unload, place ammunition in drivers compartment, and place the unloaded gun in the trunk. You are no longer "carrying," you are transporting.
Bill in Tenn.
__________________
Bill DeShivs
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 12:29 AM   #6
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,103
A more important question is should you be driving. If you've had to many to carry a firearm, you shouldn't be driving.

But if you keep it in the trunk for example, and don't touch it, can't see a problem. There are some people who wouldn't, and therefore shouldn't, if you catch my drift.

I guess it comes down to self restraint. Too many people think they have drinking under control until they get into an accident of some sort.

I'd recommend not having drinks if you have a gun accessible. I'd rather not read about someone getting hurt/hurting someone from making a bad drinking choice.
__________________
Sig 1911 Traditional reverse two tone, Sig p226 .40, Sig 556 Swat patrol, Baby Eagle/jerico steel .45
NJgunowner is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 05:49 AM   #7
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,516
I don't know that it's illegal but I think leaving a gun in your car when out drinking is just a bad idea. If you know you'll be drinking, leave the gun at home.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 05:57 AM   #8
Maxem0815
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2011
Posts: 216
Booze & guns just don't mix be responsible don't drink and drive don't drink and carry a firearm! Down here to many idiots keep guns in there cars get into a fight at a bar then come back and shoot someone.
Mace
Maxem0815 is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 08:21 AM   #9
chasep255
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2009
Location: NJ :(
Posts: 688
Well I would say that if you are still good to drive then I think you would be safe to carry. I wonder what the laws are against CWI (carrying while intoxicated).
__________________
I have mostly non-sporting firearms
In NJ, technically speaking, ALL guns are illegal
Also in my state there is such thing as a Class III BB gun :barf:
Happy to say that despite the NJ AWB I still manage to make my guns look scary
chasep255 is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 08:43 AM   #10
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
There is so much in this thread I disagree with.

"If you've had to many to carry a firearm, you shouldn't be driving."

In Virginia you can't imbibe and carry a firearm, but you can drink and drive within the limits of the law. According to the chart published by the Virginia State Police, at 200 pounds I can have 4 drinks in 2 hours and still be legal to drive with a blood alcohol level of less than .08. The guns aren't in the passenger compartment.

As far as stopping for a beer or having two glasses of wine with dinner on the way home from work or anyway else, there's nothing wrong with locking a gun up in the car. Or a chainsaw or anything else you own. I always try to park where I can keep an eye on my car, even if it's empty.

Ever drive back from the range and stop for a beer or dinner? Why not? Ever drive back from hunting camp and stop for a meal and a drink? If you did you left a firearm in the car. It's no different than having a handgun or two with you. Heck, does anyone take their rifles and shotguns into the restaurant?

I think a number of folks need to rethink their position on this.

My father was a VA State Trooper and his cousin was the county sheriff for 27 years, so I was raised to respect firearms and the law in general.
johnbt is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 10:28 AM   #11
Wag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2010
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Posts: 572
Let me get this straight: You're going to drink, then get in your car and drive.

And this is planned.

I don't get it. ???

--Wag--
__________________
"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.
Wag is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 10:32 AM   #12
Ksmoker
Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2009
Location: NE Kansas
Posts: 74
d&d

I second all of the above, if you have a CDL that is double jeopardy!!
Ksmoker is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 10:41 AM   #13
egor20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,762
Just a little off topic, my wife and I have a deal (coin flip) whom ever is carrying is the designated driver when we go out to dinner or drinks.
__________________
Chief stall mucker and grain chef

Country don't mean dumb.
Steven King. The Stand
egor20 is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 10:50 AM   #14
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wag
Let me get this straight: You're going to drink, then get in your car and drive.

And this is planned.

I don't get it. ???
Is it illegal in your state to have a beer and then drive or, instead, is it illegal to drive while under the influence as determined by a certain blood alcohol level?
Don H is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 12:19 PM   #15
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
"Let me get this straight: You're going to drink, then get in your car and drive.

And this is planned.

I don't get it. ???"

___________________

What part don't you understand? It is common knowledge that it is a legal activity. That's why states set BAC limits such as .08, because drinking and driving is NOT a zero tolerance activity. As I stated, at my weight I can drink 3 and maybe 4 drinks in two hours and be legal. Four is pushing it according to the chart, but I can't recall the last time I had four beers or drinks.

http://www.tkevinwilsonlawyer.com/li...ion-charts.cfm

Here's my recent driving record: speeding ticket in 1986 and speeding ticket in 2011. Both of them radar traps on deserted highways. I do drive fast, so I didn't complain.

I'll be 61 soon and have been driving after a drink or two, usually with food, since the legal drinking age was 16 in D.C. I got my unrestricted license in Maryland in 1966.

Read the law for your state.

Or maybe you support zero tolerance. I support zero tolerance for texting while driving and also for cell phones.

When I was younger it was still legal in Virginia and many states to consume alcohol while driving. They outlawed it and the real drunks kept doing it anyway. Go figure.
johnbt is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 12:24 PM   #16
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
As late as 2003 it was still legal to drink while driving in 3 states: Indiana, Mississippi and Montana - as long as the driver was sober.

In 8 states it was legal for passengers to drink. But that refusal to go along with the federal open container law has cost them highway funds. Your federal gov at work.

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPa...ontentId=15435
johnbt is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 07:27 PM   #17
wally626
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2009
Posts: 637
You would need to look at the specific TN laws. In VA you can not drink in a restaurant while conceal carrying but you can if you open carry. If you are not conceal carrying in a restaurant (really locations with particular types of alcohol permits) but are in public then the law says you may not be intoxicated, but no specific BAL are listed.

So yes, in VA you could have a couple of beers with dinner and still be able to legally have a loaded gun in your car. TN I do not know.
wally626 is offline  
Old August 13, 2011, 07:54 PM   #18
Nashville
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5
Haha saw that coming

Just as I suspected, this thread turned into a "you ought not be doing *blank* "

I would like to reiterate that nowhere in my original post did I mention getting drunk, impaired, etc... In fact I said that I would never do that... So the judgemental responses will be ignored. Haha

I think that the general consensus is that I should unload the firearm and store it in the trunk. Thanks for the advice!
Nashville is offline  
Old August 14, 2011, 01:39 AM   #19
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
VA allows CCW in establishments that serve alcohol as long as you are not drinking or I should say impaired. I believe the amount I saw was .02 sortof like how minors have a lower alcohol limit allowed while driving then adults who have .08. pretty much any drinking at all while carrying is a big no-no(like everyone already knows) but just like DUI they would need a reading above the amount that makes you intoxicated. // basically there is a switch from what you can't or shouldn't do TO what someone else has to do to 'tie you down' // I suppose if it was your first offense you could refuse a breathalyzer and say it was your first beer or you never drank nothing. for CCW off property for me means no booze.
thanx for the info john...that was some interesting stuff and you obviously have a good memory. I didn't know a lot of that. I remember when I was younger pumpin gas over the summer or whatever many older guys or a little younger adults would drive with open containers. I always thought that was a little brash
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old August 14, 2011, 03:16 PM   #20
federali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2011
Location: Nassau County NY
Posts: 378
Agree with kilimanjaro

Every state has its own rules. I generally don't go "drinking" but I may have a mixed drink or a beer with dinner at a restaurant while packing. As I'm usually the driver, I limit my alcohol to one drink.

I know there are places where guns may be safely locked in cars for short periods of time, without incident. But not where I live. So, my views are different than yours. We must take preautions against our guns getting into the wrong hands through theft. If my car is stolen with a gun locked inside, my full carry license is suspended and all my handguns confiscated by the police department. Then, there's the matter of civil responsibility should my gun end up in a shooting.
__________________
Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
federali is offline  
Old August 14, 2011, 04:46 PM   #21
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 7,206
I answered the question according to Tenn. State law.
__________________
Bill DeShivs
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 14, 2011, 08:10 PM   #22
wally626
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2009
Posts: 637
Quote:
VA allows CCW in establishments that serve alcohol as long as you are not drinking or I should say impaired.
VA does not allow drinking while conceal carrying in a restaurant with a liquor license, impairment does not enter into that part of the law. There is a separate provision that outlaws being impaired and carrying concealed. The driving while intoxicated statute does have a blood alcohol limit (0.08) but the public intoxication statute does not.

Quote:
§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
...
J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.

.....

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.
wally626 is offline  
Old August 15, 2011, 12:46 AM   #23
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
wally626

yes thank you for clarifying that. You can CCW at all establishments that have a license to serve and/or sell alcohol(whether you can drink or can not drink on the premises), but you must not be drinking or you are guilty of a misdemeanor.

That being said as you stated(refering to the other law you mentioned briefly): if you were violating the law they would have to use that seperate law to determine if you were "over the limit" which is considerably less than DUI which is .08 or higher. They would do this or attempt to do this if you are arrested for the misdeameanor. As well as relaxing on the liquor establishment/CCW laws like many other states, VA also allows CCW in state parks, state forests, national forests, WMA's, and roadside rest areas now just like many other states. I believe VA's kicked in JUL2010.

Quote:
// basically there is a switch from what you can't or shouldn't do TO what someone else has to do to 'tie you down' //
That's sort of what I was trying to get at when I wrote the above quote originally. It can get complicated like John mentioned and that is how people 'get off' on these arrests and for DUIs sometimes.
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old August 15, 2011, 01:36 AM   #24
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
also, I forget to mention...this stuff is a pain to type about cuz its a lot to remember/articulate...john seemed correct.

The reason I say that is basically one beer and you're legally impaired(give or take) while CCW, but it takes about 4beers in 45-60minutes to make a 200lb person blow a .10

basically a beer or two you should be ok but I don't even to one myself because of the smell and incorrect arrests.
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old August 15, 2011, 07:47 AM   #25
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 7,224
Bill DeShivs is correct,,,

Quote:
Unload, place ammunition in drivers compartment, and place the unloaded gun in the trunk. You are no longer "carrying," you are transporting.
Bill in Tenn.
I drive a small pick-up truck,,,
I purchased two of the cabled lock boxes.

When I stop after work for a beer,,,
I place the handgun in one locked box,,,
And I place the magazine in the other locked box.

Each key will only open one box,,,
According to Oklahoma law I am transporting,,,
That also alleviates the need to inform an officer I am transporting.

Aarond
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13917 seconds with 7 queries