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Old August 10, 2011, 01:30 AM   #1
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Do you judge people by the shotgun they carry??

Do you judge people by the shotgun they carry??

I ask this question because it seems as if this is the case... I seem to garner a lot more respect on the clay fields when I show up with one of my Beretta target guns instead of say my Mossberg 500 or one Remington 870 Express models... Recently, I was waiting to start a round of Skeet with several other gentlemen significantly older than myself..

I'm sitting there surrounded by guys with double-guns from the likes of Perazzi, Blaser and Krieghoff... And one of their buddies shows up with a heavily engraved K-80... He commented "well boy, do you know how to shoot that thing." Before I could answer, one of his friends commented, "you'd better be on your game, Harold, or he will beat you like a red-headed step child with that plain barreled Winchester Model 12".. This is a good example of me being pre-judged for not carrying a O/U or SXS...

Honestly, does anybody here do this and pre-judge ability based on what a shooter is carrying????





And oh... I spanked poor Harold....

(Names changed to protect the guilty party)
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Old August 10, 2011, 02:03 AM   #2
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I tend to think along the lines when judging someone by what they carry to shoot with the same way I used to think about the cue stick a person shoots pool with when I used to shoot a bit on the table.

Nothing gave me more pleasure than to take a bar cue and and take the money of a cocky fella that came in and took ten minutes to screw his cue together like it was some kind of sanctimonial ceremony while smirking at me for holding my house stick.

Quote:
...And oh...I spanked poor Harold...
Good for you.

There must have been alot of 'Harolds' that shot pool also.

No, I don't judge a persons shooting abilities by what they shoot.
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Old August 10, 2011, 03:33 AM   #3
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Rifles, but I was shooting my Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag with a cheap Bushnell scope on a public range next to a guy with a beautiful Browning A-bolt with the barrel comp thingy and a high dollar scope, about a $2000.00 rig vs. my $350.00 rig.

Cease fire called, we go to check targets, he says "Hey look at this, great, eh?" I say "Thanks", he asks "What do you mean?" I told him he was looking at my target, his was one over. I asked what he was shooting, he snarled "7 mag" as he stomped off, threw his rifle in a case, and left.

I was shooting less than an inch, his groups were, well, weren't groups at all.

I learned from watching an uncle of mine go down a trout stream and catch a limit where a bunch of fancy dressed fools fished dressed in thousands of dollars of gear and rods, catching nothing, that equipment helps, but it doesn't make the man.

If I walked up on a skeet field and saw one guy with an old beater, and the rest with high dollar guns, I'm putting my money on the guy with the beater.
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Old August 10, 2011, 03:43 AM   #4
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I think of it this way: If I'm ever in a gun fight and miss all my shots or run out of ammo, my Hi-point still makes for a nice little beat-down club


Edit: Sorry, misread title. Did not realize the post was "shotgun" specific. I have an old Mossy 395 bolt action 12 gauge. Most of the old guys are curious and want to look it over, and shoot it being that bolt shotguns are not all that prevalent anymore. Also get sneers from friends when we go hunt rabbits/jacks and I bring my old little H&R .410... The sneers stop when they go home empty-handed, and I don't. That little .410 has yet to fail me

Last edited by PoorRichRichard; August 10, 2011 at 04:05 AM.
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:05 AM   #5
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People are going to talk.

Guys with guns are always sitting or standing around talking. They talk more trash than basketball players.
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:19 AM   #6
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The shooting range I go to has all types of guns showing up and they are also high end gun dealers. Imagine how I felt showing up with my Stoeger Condor! The owner and the counter guy both said so what, it's not the arrow, it's the archer. The Stoeger did a great job and I really love that place!
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:33 AM   #7
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"Toolset" is last in the list for a reason.

lpl
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Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:36 AM   #8
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I really don't care. I would rather get my kids a good birthday present. Priorities you know? Hell, I don't even shoot match level so I don't care about that either. I can still nail a duck at 50 yards. Does that matter?
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:48 AM   #9
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By the clothes they wear?
By the car they drive?
By the house they live in?
ETC..................................
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IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT!
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Old August 10, 2011, 07:56 AM   #10
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Honestly, I kinda do inadvertantly. If you were to show up with a sears and Roebuck or a plain "do all" shotgun, then you might not be thought of as a threat to watch out for. I see people occasionally using 1100/870 tacticals, they usually shoot like crap. I've seen some people using thumbhole stocks, and while I like thumbhole stocks, they apparantly shouldn't. And then those people with 3 1/2" goose getters never seem to do well. Then again, you would not believe the crap I attract because I carry either a Benelli Montefeltro or a Cordoba (neither are stock). In VA, there is an overwhelming miopia towards the 391s, I can't stand em, but most people want to force that junk on everyone they meet.
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Old August 10, 2011, 08:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
By the clothes they wear?
By the car they drive?
By the house they live in?
ETC..................................
unfortunately it is part of life. I actually think more people Judge you by the car you drive then the gun you shoot.

as far as guns go I think more people Judge you for the fact you have a gun than to what kind of gun you have.
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Old August 10, 2011, 08:59 AM   #12
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To be 100% honest yes I do...but not the way you may imagine. I've been on the beating end of some "Harolds" in my life enough to know 9 times out of 10 those with the high dollar equipment are not the ones you have to watch out for...their just the ones with the money. Great story about this was when I was about 12 years old and we were going squirrel hunting on some public ground...I with my little single shot old school Marlin 22 rifle with a walmart special scope (pops had his 22 as well) We come across two guys stomping out of the woods, one with a decked out obvious high dollar 22 rifle, I just remember thinking the scope looked like a telescope, and the other a shotgun with 1 mutilated squirrel (obviously shot at a pretty close range with the shotgun).

Through the course of our conversation we learn they hunted for about 2 hours, made tons of shots up into the trees but only got one...then, kid you not, the one snickers and says..."Kid, if you wanna squirrel hunt you gotta get a gun and a scope that can actually shoot accurately...(tapping his 22 rifle)" Now mind you he's the one that didn't get one...

...It was like God was listening and wanted to put this guy in his place. Next thing I know Dad has spotted a squirrel on an old fence post about 50 yards away, I immediately kneel, prop, pop off the safety, find it in my scope and squeeze: Dead squirrel.

"Looks like his works just fine" My dad says as we walk away from the idiots...priceless!
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Old August 10, 2011, 09:17 AM   #13
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Generally speaking, if you show up at a target shoot with a target gun, folks will think and take you a little more seriously that you are there as a target shooter than if you show up with some mall-ninjaed HD gun - as, I imagine, would also be the case if you showed up at a HD course with the K-80
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Old August 10, 2011, 09:29 AM   #14
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I sort of can judge skill based off of what someone is shooting. If they are shooting some crappy gun not really made for clay shooting then their scores are normally low. Not because of the gun but because of their lack of experience. Also people who use rental guns tend to not be very good.
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Old August 10, 2011, 09:44 AM   #15
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Looks

I don't know about the shotgun, but when someone shows up in a motor home with out of state plates, I know that this person really likes this game.
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Old August 10, 2011, 10:33 AM   #16
hogdogs
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I learned never to judge on such meaningless things...

Size up...? Sure I do that.

I have been judged and also have judged...

But what we were taught in "salesman school" was never try to "pre-qualify" a potential customer and/or their worth.

One case was as a young man recently involved (unwillingly) in a high speed rear ender crash with me sitting on my stationary bike as a truck hit us at 55+ actual after braking with 4 locked up tires for +125 feet on dry asphalt.

Well 5 months after the crash I had $50K+ to my name and I needed a reliable car for wifey and the soon to be Junior.

Salesman tried showing me crap under $2,000 and I kept trying to tell him that I could literally buy any product on their Ford dealership. But I wanted a CLEAN LOW MILE UNDER 3 YEARS OLD PREFERABLY A CORPORATE TRADE IN...
Dangit when I go to that detail level in my wants why show me an oil leaker 4 banger mustang with 150,000 miles and 6 years old?

Went to the son of the dealership owner and dealt with him to buy a 1986 (this was in 1989) Taurus for $8K+ cash that had only been on the property a few hours... corporate trade as I wanted too...

While I agree that some guns really can help or hinder a shooter's scores on the sports field, I look back upon the age old adage/proverb... "Be aware of the man with one gun... he likely knows how to use it..."

I cringe to wonder how many rounds I would have to send down range from a "fine gentleman's arm" to get half as acquainted me and my M-500 are.

Brent
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Old August 10, 2011, 11:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
I cringe to wonder how many rounds I would have to send down range from a "fine gentleman's arm" to get half as acquainted me and my M-500 are.
No where near as many Brent, as that "fine gentleman's arm" would be better fitted to you................

Last edited by oneounceload; August 10, 2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old August 10, 2011, 11:46 AM   #18
BigJimP
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No, I try not to ....

New shooters/ Inexperienced shooters make me a little nervous ...and if they show up with equipment that isn't more the norm on "target fields" ...then I watch their gun handling pretty close...until I get a read on their approach to things.../ but I watch a shooter I don't know even if he carries a K gun too - just in case. As long as they aren't "cowboys" - or obnoxious - new shooters are always welcomed on my squads.

Tactical guns ...18" barrels ...are an issue on clay target fields because of the noise from the muzzle blast ...and I won't shoot next to someone shooting a gun like that on a Trap or 5 Stand operation / because its too abusive../ but a pump gun with a 26" or 28" barrel is just fine ....by the same token, there isn't anything wrong with a guy that just wants to shoot a Tactical gun at Skeet as an example ...because the other guys are behind him when he's shooting.

I have a problem with arrogance / and disrespect on the fields ...regardless whether a shooter carries an 870 or a K gun. There are a number of members at my club - with K guns - that I will go out of my way, not to shoot with - they're not fun to be around.

I shot with a guy in his 90's yesterday ...he shoots a nice Beretta ...but his balance is getting so bad -- he worries me, that he might fall over or trip ...so a member of our squad is a step behind him all the time ...just in case / to grab his gun - or his shoulder or whatever ...( without him knowing it ) ...I even offered to carry his gun when we left station 8 ...back to the head of the field where the gun racks are...

But seriously - if its an 870 or whatever ...if they can shoot 24's and 25's on a clay field ....I'll congratulate them just like any member of the squad. If they're a new shooter ...and only hit 10 of 25 ...we'll encourage them as well, as long as their gun handling is appropriate ...and correct them as necessary to protect all members on the field. Everyone has to learn somewhere...

But there are equipment issues --- that will hold someone back on the clay target fields ...an 870, with a tactical barrel, and an open fixed cyclinder choke ...don't make for a good sucessful clays gun ( but I could care less, if a guy wants to shoot it ---and break 15 of 25 .....or whatever .../ will he beat the guys shooting O/U's maybe - maybe not .../ but that kind of equipment will not very often, if ever, allow you to shoot in the 95+ average out of 100 on Trap or Skeet ....but if he can, then I'll shake his hand like anyone else...but I've never seen it happen...in my 30+ yrs of clay shooting ...). Anyone can shoot an occasional good round ...even me, with my old eyes ...but a consistent 95+ average is something else.
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Old August 10, 2011, 11:51 AM   #19
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I shot with a guy in his 90's yesterday ...he shoots a nice Beretta ...but his balance is getting so bad -- he worries me, that he might fall over or trip ...so a member of our squad is a step behind him all the time ...just in case / to grab his gun - or his shoulder or whatever ...( without him knowing it ) ...I even offered to carry his gun when we left station 8 ...back to the head of the field where the gun racks are...
That's the NORM at my local club as the average age is late70's to mid-80's. We have a few who bring stool to sit on, several shoot from motorized scooters - BUT, they are known and their safety habits are known.

I think, like Jim said, NEW shooters to a locale, (not necessarily new to shooting) are always watched by the locals to see how they handle themselves - both from a safety and personality standpoint. Prove yourself OK in both regards and most could care less what you are shooting and if you ask, most will let you try their $20K Kreighoff
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Old August 10, 2011, 12:44 PM   #20
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Do I? No. Because I've lived it.

I will judge by their attitude, what spouts from their mouth, and how they carry themselves.

The first shotgun I bought with my own money was a Ted Williams Model 300 with a polychoke in 90% condition (90% of the finish is beaten off of it). I bought it with the purpose of duck hunting in mind: a cheap 12 ga, 2 3/4" gun I could drop in the bottom of the boat, throw wet decoys/waders over, get mud on, drop it in the water, etc and not have to cry over its abuse. Despite all of that, it has never failed me, shot countless ducks/geese, and I can run 21-23/25 on the skeet range at will. I've acquired nicer shotguns (auto, pump, and O/U) since, and can shoot them well, but that one is still my go-to gun. When I bring it to the trap/skeet range on base, I get the looks, sneers, etc from those who do not know me. But once all is said and done, its funny to see their looks change.
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Old August 10, 2011, 12:55 PM   #21
hogdogs
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Globe, My first gun was a handed down Mossberg .410 bolt gun with poly type choke...

My same age child buddies would scoff at my cheap little slow shooter... But far more often than not, on the occasion I missed with the first shot, I dropped winged or runnin' critters with the second.

when an old cajun guy was trying to explain why a bolt action and the .410 was a poor choice for a rabbit gun, a rabbit busted cover and took off... I leveled on the bunny and missed, stroked the bolt and dropped him cleanly.

At the tailgates for them to drink a beer and talk about the mornin' he proceeded to make me blush tellin' his fellow old timers that they had to put me with the poor shooters in the bunch so they could see a dead rabbit too.

Brent
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Old August 10, 2011, 01:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
I will judge by their attitude, what spouts from their mouth, and how they carry themselves.
+1
I've seen too many guy's break 24 or 25 with field guns and at least as many who couldn't break 15 with a 30K O/U to even think the gun makes much difference.
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Old August 10, 2011, 01:22 PM   #23
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Shooting a 21 - 23 at skeet ....means you're in the 84 - 92 area .../ or an average in the mid to upper 80's ...

( and that's fine / I'm around the same area these days ...with an 88 as my goal - with no single score below a 22). Once in a while I'm a 95 or 96 ....but often I'm in the upper 80's as well ...with a number of physical and eyesight issues slowing me down and taking a toll on my consistent scores...its truly a rare occassion when I run 75 in a row anymore...

But lets be honest...among serious skeet shooters ...even at a small time club level ...let alone regional or national levels...score averages below a 96 will get you into the bottom 30% of even a local registered or club shoot..../ in 16 yard Trap singles - the score averages are even higher...

There is nothing wrong with having a goal of an 80 or an 84 ...or whatever ...especially if you're just shooting casually .....and sometimes its just fun to go out with your buddies - have some laughs - and shoot in the
80's ..../ but an average of 84 - 92 doesn't make a serious skeet shooter ( so I'm not a serious skeet shooter either at an 88 avg )....and it won't beat many serious skeet shooters when they're really trying to focus on their game - not even on a practice day ! Let alone when you go out with the big dogs to play ....where you better shoot 100 straight if you want to be in contention...
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Old August 10, 2011, 02:48 PM   #24
markj
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No, I usually have the cheapest gun, some of them guns cost as much as a good car.

Dad used a winchester 96, was old, heavy and shot straight. Its the shooter not the gun he told me often.


He had a lot of trophys won with that old hand me down shotgun. Saw him do 100 out of 100 a few times for cash.
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Old August 10, 2011, 03:56 PM   #25
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Yes, I judge people by the shotguns they carry. There is a difference for me though when hunting rather than target shooting.

For target shooting, I absolutely hate seeing those multi thousand dollar giant ribbed trap guns. That tells me A. that the people shooting them have nothing better to spend their money on than a gun they shoot maybe once a week, or B. that you can't shoot good enough with a regular shotgun, or C., they just want to look like they know what they are doing. I think they forget no matter how much more their gun costs, my gun can do just as good as their's can. (Shotguns arn't rifles, you can't control where each pellet hits)

For hunting on the other hand, I absolutely hate seeing Junk guns, at least for upland/small game. I know I said before, a shotgun is a shotgun and any shotgun can kill as well as mine, but there are shotguns I can't stand seeing when hunting upland birds. Some of the guns I hate seeing while walking down a pheasant field are, New pump actions, Synthetic, Camo(especially spray paint camo), wood that looks like particle board, New Semi Auto's, synthetic, camo, ugly wood(laminated). You just don't hunt upland with with guns like that, it's just not right! I'm not a huge fan of any pump action shotgun, but a model 12, or 97 would be fine and a Remington 1100, or browning A5 would be fine.

Something else that I hate seeing when hunting upland is CAMO clothing. Again, it just doesn't look right. Especially military camo, I hate seeing that when hunting anything.

So if your ever hunting South Central Pennsylvania, and see someone small game hunting that looks like their from the early 1900's, that would be me. I'll be wearing my tan cotton duck small game jacket, matching brush pants, 16 inch Bean Boots, and a tan and blaze Winchester hat. That is what an upland bird hunter should look like. Oh yea, the gun I'll be carrying will have 2 barrels, and the stock will be made of real wood, imagine that!

Antique Shooter

Last edited by Antique Shooter; August 10, 2011 at 08:55 PM.
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