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Old October 13, 2011, 10:01 AM   #1
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Starting competitive shooting

So I started going to the range to spice up my hand gun skills, then started playing skeet, then. . . found the off in the "yonder" pistol range and noticed a schedule of events. My home range has a steel shooting group and a USPSA group (along with like three others).

So heres where Im at. I own a HK .45 USP and its an amazing gun, I truly love this gun. . . but ammo aint cheap. I also own a HK P2000 .40 with quite a bit of ammo and its never truly hard to get ahold of. Mags arent an issue and both guns are stock.

If I want to shoot for fun in both groups, which would yall prefer? Also, if you recomend another gun, I would be willing to trade the USP for a 1911 (which I regretably sold one not too long ago) and go single stack.

Im not new to shooting by any means, just new to shooting on the move with a pistol, and shooting for lightining speeds like I see people do with steel shooting. What is the opinion of the knowledgable? Given this info what would you recommend?
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Old October 13, 2011, 10:58 AM   #2
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My recommendation is to rummage around on your ammo shelf, and pick some .40s for light recoil and low cost.
Then enter either or both events in the Production Division with your P2000 and have fun.

You may come to want a different gun later, but since you already have one on the list of approved Production guns, you had just as well start out with something that you are familar with and that is already paid for. Learn the ropes and be sure of your interest before you spend a lot more money on it.

If you really get into competitive shooting you will probably want to get into reloading. It takes a while to pay off the equipment but then you will be saving money every shot... or shooting more for the same cost.
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Old October 13, 2011, 09:34 PM   #3
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Thanks

Thanks for the advice Jim. My wife said the same thing since I have so much .40 ammo.

Any tips to share on steel shooting and the practical stuff? Is it best to open the eyes and close the mouth sorta thing?

I played with some steel the other day, nothin beats hearing that "plink" after the round fires.
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Old October 13, 2011, 10:19 PM   #4
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I have little experience with speed steel excepting the Cowboy version.

I used to shoot USPSA/IPSC, shifted over to IDPA a while back.
If you can line up a formal class, it will beat trying to figure it out at matches.
Study the rules.
My Four Priorities
1. Be safe. Don't hurt anybody, don't scare anybody, don't get disqualified for safety rule violations.
2. Execute the Course of Fire. Pay attention to the walk-through and watch what the experienced shooters do. You can't do it as fast as they can but you can minimize lost motion. There are fewer penalty situations in USPSA than IDPA but you can still get nailed.
3. Hit the target. You can't miss fast enough to win.
4. Move along. Don't run before you walk LITERALLY, but don't dally around, your time is a big part of your score.
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:26 AM   #5
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perfect

Exactly what I am looking for. I should be to the next one they host in November. Untill then, Youtube videos, range time and dry fire drills.

Thanks again.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:02 AM   #6
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If you want to check YouTube shooting videos, this guy, Todd Jarrett has many on competition shooting: http://www.fishinghuntinginfo.com/to...stol-shooting/
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Old October 15, 2011, 03:48 PM   #7
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thanks

Yea I checked out like three of his videos today. I also found some really cheap ammo for my HK45. Id prefere to shoot that due to the DA/SA vs the DAO of the p2000. I noticed a lot of people were shooting glocks in some of the other videos I watched, but assumed that they are shooting very light pound trigger pulls. I dont have the option of modifying my P2000, so naturally I would like to go with the USP, and I also found "drop in" trigger kits for it. . . only catch is the drop in part requires fully disassembling the weapon.

If the ammo wasnt an issue would the HK 45 USP be a better weapon?
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Old October 15, 2011, 04:07 PM   #8
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Neither is optimum for the competition, I am just trying to get you started without laying out a lot of money for a specialized gun before you are sure you like the match and before you have enough experience to make a good choice. If you can get affordable .45 ACP and want to shoot the USP, great.
Mine was too bulky for my hand size and I did not stay with it, but it is a reliable and accurate gun, which are the main requirements.
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Old October 18, 2011, 12:50 PM   #9
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Jim

Well, I was talking about this thread with a guy from work and me him and my wife came up with a pretty good idea, I thought I would share it with you.

Sell my HK45USP for $600 (on par for gunbroker.com), take the money and go buy a HK40USP at the gun show this weekend. Ammo is cheaper, I already know the weapon really well, and I get a nice annual supply of ammo as it is in .40.

So now I'm trying to find a good HK40USP in the classified section and on GB. My big hang up right now is I cant use the COMBAT/TACTICAL model or the USP EXPERT / ELIETE that have the mag well on it. So my wife recommended the EXPERT/ELIETE with no mag well, or get the standard USP and swap the trigger, and toss on some better sights (pending it comes with the annoying white ones).

Input / opinion on the situation?
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Old October 18, 2011, 01:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Input / opinion on the situation?
I'm with Jim, and the rest, that would advise to simply "run what ya' brung" for a spell before worrying about spending more cash on different guns or mods.

Folks shoot competition for a variety of reasons, and those reasons will influence your equipment decisions.

Some folks use competition to supplement their defensive training. They use the same type of gun in competition that they carry, with similar holsters and mag carriers, and shoot in the appropriate division. Some use a "game gun" that may have a few modifications the carry gun does not, however, it is almost identical to the carry gun. Others make no modifications whatsoever to their equipment.

Other folks shoot competition with a much greater emphasis on winning the stage / match, and take a much more specialized approach to their gun and equipment. They do this in order to maximize the potential of their gear in the competitive environment.

Shoot a few matches with what you have before you invest in different equipment, then take it from there.
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Old October 18, 2011, 05:56 PM   #11
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Repeat, shoot what you've already got.

Buying a different H&K now would not be productive.
You will soon see that very few competitive shooters use H&K.
They are sturdy reliable guns but they are not the easiest to shoot well.
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Old October 18, 2011, 08:50 PM   #12
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New gear isn't really going to do much for you at this point. If you are hell bent on getting something else I would go to a match and ask a few guys to try their guns. People are friendly and they will definetly show you what gear they have. That should give you an idea of what is out there.

Most guys will say that the double action trigger of your HK leaves you at a disadvantage. I don't really think this is true. Double action guns are catching on at the top of USPSA now. The majority of the guys in the top ten are now using traditional double action pistols.

None of that really is important now though. Once you learn the sport and go to a few matches, you won't have to ask online what to get, you will know what you want.
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Old October 19, 2011, 07:50 AM   #13
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Team Single Stack

Folks shoot competition for a variety of reasons, and those reasons will influence your equipment decisions.
Agreed, I think Im going to go with the new USP .40 based solely on the ammo situation (I get a lot of free ammo) and if I choose to get a new gun for comp, I can always trade / sell that one for something else (preferably in .40)

Some folks use competition to supplement their defensive training.
This is litterally the only reason I am getting involved. Just spoke to a new aquaintance who competed in nationals, he recommended everything that is being said here, but thinks the .40 will do me a lot of good due to the ammo.

They use the same type of gun in competition that they carry, with similar holsters and mag carriers, and shoot in the appropriate division.
Again, same issue. It's what I know and very similar to my carry gun IMO.

Shoot a few matches with what you have before you invest in different equipment, then take it from there.

With any luck that will be this saturday or next. I'll post up some pics from when I go.
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Old October 19, 2011, 07:53 AM   #14
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Repeat, shoot what you've already got.
She's a safe queen, and I am starting to side with the ammo situation. I havent fired the gun (other than last week for 12 rds) in over 1.5 years...

You will soon see that very few competitive shooters use H&K.
They are sturdy reliable guns but they are not the easiest to shoot well.

Agreed. . . in the highest. My thing is I talked to a shooter and he made the same comment, but when I told him its only for the game/skill and not to win he basically said I could show up with anything and do fine. He was explaining to me that guys shoot with guns that carry a price tag in the thousands. . . I'm just not that guy. I'm a shooter on a budget, free ammo fits my budget well!
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Old October 19, 2011, 07:58 AM   #15
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If you are hell bent on getting something else I would go to a match and ask a few guys to try their guns.
I've been watching some of the videos, talking to people who shoot in competitions, and I dont think I'm going to be able to afford much of what I've seen. That being said, I could always just shoot a plain handgun for a while and possibly modify it later, pending available funds.

People are friendly and they will definetly show you what gear they have.
Couldnt be more true! I've gotten a ton of feed back on here and face to face.

The majority of the guys in the top ten are now using traditional double action pistols.
Hopefully this will work to my advantage.

None of that really is important now though. Once you learn the sport and go to a few matches, you won't have to ask online what to get, you will know what you want.
Sounds good. I'm pretty excited to get started. Once I get to shoot in a match I'll try to post up some pics and get some feed back from yall.
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Old October 19, 2011, 08:03 AM   #16
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After reading a thread on the high road, I have decided what I am interested in. This doesnt mean I will be for certain shooting in each one, but rather I am interested in these for sure.

ACTS (American Confederation of Tactical Shooters) – ACTS's goal is to provide a sport in which Civilian rifle owners along with Military and Law Enforcement professionals can practice 'real world' shooting skills in a sporting venue that has not been offered by any other shooting discipline or association.
To promote the safe practical, proficient use of rifles. To foster sportsmanship and camaraderie among rifle owners, and to support and defend the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

IPSC (USPSA) – an action pistol sport in which the competitor must try to blend accuracy, power, and speed. Most shooting takes place at close range, and stages may involve multiple targets, moving targets, targets that react when hit, penalty carrying targets, partially covered targets, obstacles, movement, competitive tactics, and any other difficulty the course designer can dream up. Some matches even contain surprise stages where no one knows in advance what to expect.

IDPA – an action pistol sport similar to IPSC, but with a focus on defensive tactics and situations. Pistols are limited to being in or near stock configuration.

Steel Challenge – One of the oldest forms of competitive action shooting. Steel Challenge matches are set up using eight pre-drawn courses of fire that do not change from one match to the next. Each competitor shoots every course of fire five times, with the four best times being averaged. Scoring is based on how quickly the competitor shoots with the only penalty being assessed for targets that are missed. Many local clubs have weekly Steel Challenge matches, and they are an excellent way to get an introduction to action-oriented shooting sports.

Three Gun/Multigun – a sport which is as fast-moving and requires as much strategic planning as the action pistol games. Multigun adds rifles and shotguns to the mix, including transitions and distance shooting. There is no official parent organization for most 3gun matches, although the USPSA has begun to sponsor many 3gun competitions and offers a national 3gun championship every year.


More than likely I will shoot 3 gun & IPSC since I have an aquaintance who shoots both. Im assuming it will be better for me to get used to the enviornment while having a wing over me so to speak. Plus they seem to be the most relative to the job and what I am looking for.
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Old October 19, 2011, 08:13 AM   #17
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An active acquaintance and presumably a conveniently located club trump fine details of event and gun. Go for it.
You say you are on a limited budget. How does that work with three guns to buy and feed?
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Old October 19, 2011, 07:48 PM   #18
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The CDNN catalog has USP 40 cal at $697, new. If there is police supply store nearby look for a LEO trade~in. Try calling GT Distributors in Dallas and Austin. My local IPSC club has a deputy that uses his HK 40 cal. He is a fast and accurate guy.
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Old October 19, 2011, 09:24 PM   #19
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This doesnt mean I will be for certain shooting in each one, but rather I am interested in these for sure.
I shoot USPSA singlestack and IDPA CDP.

I like to shoot the USPSA matches because they have higher round count stages and they don't have the strict format found in IDPA for shooting the stages. Sometimes it's good to shoot stages where the rules are simply "there's the targets, shoot em' as fast as you can, as you see fit".

I like IDPA because it gives me another opportunity to do live fire draws from concealment, which is often frowned upon at public ranges, and because sometimes you've got to concentrate during the stage to abide by the rules without getting a procedural.

Both are fun, and shooting both will improve your gun handling skills, speed, and accuracy.
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Old October 26, 2011, 01:32 PM   #20
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@Jim Watson

The budget works well because I am given a nearly endless supply of .40 S&W and litterally all the 12ga ammo I can carry. Feeding these two is a freebie because Im expected to shoot every so often. . . but. . . after 3 years of stockpiling ammo (I only had my work gun in .40) I have about 500+ rds. My shotgun supply is sitting in the neighborhood of 300 rds (buckshot) since it is very bulky and takes up a lot of real estate for a rd I litterally dont shoot. I tend to shoot more 7 and 7.5 shot than buck shot (dove/sporting clays).

The rifle on the other hand. . . I shoot an AK. Im currently sitting on 1,500 rds of ammo. She can eat all she wants.
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Old October 26, 2011, 01:36 PM   #21
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Sounds good. Again, Im only into this for the challenge and the chance to train in a more action packed environment. If I never win I wont be heart broken.

Now the drawing from a concealed holster is something I have been scolded for in the past. My question would be this; If drawing from the concealed carry is there more scrutiny for "procedurals" than in a traditional holster? I would be worried that a RSO would want to do things a very specific way when for example you or I do them a slightly different way.

How true is this?
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Old October 26, 2011, 01:39 PM   #22
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@everyone

The new gun is in limbo with fedex. It will arrive at work on thursday afternoon. I will be posting pics up then.

in the mean time. . .


Last edited by nice shot; October 26, 2011 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Photo
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Old October 30, 2011, 08:57 PM   #23
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Get yourself a good .22 or 9mm for steel. U can run the 9mm in production division too. I shoot the Glock 34's u see below. I also like the M&P 9L or 9 Pro. I just won a XDM 5.25 today and it looks like a great gun.


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Old October 31, 2011, 05:30 PM   #24
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Join us at a ZSA match, we are there for the new shooter
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Old November 2, 2011, 08:13 AM   #25
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@ John

Where are you all located at?

UPDATE:

I went and shot the new pistol on sunday. It seems to be a very fast shooting gun. Im not used to that. The trigger pull in SA is only about 1/4" and breaks at approximately 3 lbs. I did good shooting very slow, determined groups. Reloads were a breeze. One thing I couldnt get used too was the sights. . . sheesh. The sights are all black and when you match the top ot the front sight post up to the top of the rear sight you always. . . ALWAYS, shoot high. I burned through quite a few rounds before the range master watched me hit consistantly high by about 2 inches. So I did some Kentucky windage and started laying down the steel. Few minutes of adjusting and I will be good.

The trigger was nice but again different. Im used to a hard trigger pull and this one was night and day.

As far as shooting in a match, that happens this sunday and I will take some pictures or a video to share.

- Those Glocks look great too.
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