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Old August 3, 2011, 03:44 PM   #1
ViktorC
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NEW to Reloading, need help

Hallo to All,
I read the ABS's of reloading, slowly and carefully over the course of few months, together with manual's that came with my die set and 4 hole turret press made by LEE. Also dozens of forum posts. Finaly, I made 10 reloads in 30-30W using once fired Remington factory cases.
Problem I'm having is, well...now I have to chamber one of them, then pull the trigger of my beautifull win. M94 pre-64 and I feel little paranoid something not fun can happen. I went by chart all the way, using 29.7 grain of Winchester 748 ball powder behinde 170 grain jacketed hornady Flat point bullet. What I'm worried about, are few things. Mainly, C.O.L. powder measuring, amount of crimp etc.
I did found in chart that max cartridge lenght cannot exceed 2.550 inches - 64.77mm (I'm metric person) BUT not shorter than 2.480 inches - 62.99mm. That is 1.78mm difference, is it possible rounds ranging that much in lenght are all ok? Mine are at 64.40mm, still safe?

For powder measuring I use lee safety magnetic scale, but...believe it or not I couldn't find any dead-level surface in my house, level gauge I used was inexpensive "home depot" tool, 10 bucks or so (again not the most precise tool out there)...anyhow I came close and weighted each load as close to 29.7 grains as possible. Im sure not all of them are exactly 29.7 grs. Safe or not? Tolerances?

Last one is amount of crimp. There is no doubt I have to crimp (use LFCD) as rounds go in the tubular magazine and resting there under a heavy spring tension. But is it possible to apply too much crimp? My reloads have visible crimp around the middle of crimping cannelure, I can say that's a heavy crimp. Safe to shoot ?

It is already a long post, believe most of you folks won't even bother to read. It's ok, hope that at least one or two will have patience and time.

Finally I didn't tumble my brass cause still have to save some money for the device, find out that polishing brass isn't necessary. I cleaned it with polishing cloth and made sure there were no demages, primer pockets are clean and flash holes open.
Thank you all who find time to read this and reply with your toughts, it is possible I'm overthinking the matter but better safe then sorry, won't be much fun if I blow my head off.
regards
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Old August 3, 2011, 04:40 PM   #2
mehavey
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Quote:
My reloads have visible crimp around the middle of crimping cannelure, I can say that's a heavy crimp. Safe to shoot ?
You might give us a picture, but in general an 'easily-visible' roll crimp into the canelure is fine.

Quote:
I couldn't find any dead-level surface in my house
You don't need a dead-level surface for a balance beam scale. As Lee's instruction say: "Turn the zero adjusting poise to align the beam pointer to the zero indicator on the base." Using any reasonal flat surface, this should compensate for most slight real-world conditions. (You did zero the beam?)

Quote:
Mine are at 64.40mm [OAL], still safe?
You are within bounds (and apparently at the actual design canelure length).

Quote:
as close to 29.7 grains as possible. Im sure not all of them are exactly 29.7 grs. Safe or not? Tolerances?
Winchester's max for that 170FN/W748 combo is 32 grains.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
You are well below that, and +/1 a tenth of a grain is standard ballpark. (BTW: Which manual did you take that out of?)
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Old August 3, 2011, 05:32 PM   #3
ViktorC
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I DID zero the beam, good to know dead-level surface isn't a must, I overlooked it somewhere along the way...
Manual I was using came with lee set of dies for 30/30W, and yeah it does say that for Win. 748 with 170 FP bullet max powder charge is @32 grains...start load 29.7 grs
Thanks much for your reply Sir, highly appreciated
I sure feel better and more confidente to squeeze that trigger
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Old August 3, 2011, 05:35 PM   #4
TATER
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You have a lot of latitude with WW-748. From about 26 grains to around 35, 36 grains with that 170 flat nose so you are ok there.
Yes, it is possible to over crimp But, I think that’s part of the learning curve. Goodness knows I did…
You really don't need a lot to hold the bullet in place, If you can see the mouth just starting to turn into
The cannelure you are probably OK. As for seating and C.O.L. Never seat deeper than the Minimum,
that’s where pressure can spike and do bad things. With that 94 if you seat too long the action will
Lock up. What I would do first is make a Dummy Round (No primer and No Powder) The very same
set up that you have so far and see if it will (1) cycle threw the action and (2) make sure the bullet
Is not jamming into the lands of you rifling when you close the action. All in All, I think you are doing
Good so far, Keep the crimp in the cannelure and I think you will be good. You do have some wiggle room.
I'm sure more people will chime in with more perspective. Wish you the best and welcome to the board.
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Old August 3, 2011, 05:54 PM   #5
ViktorC
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Thanks for the welcome note, of course all together with useful advices...
That's pretty wide range in powder weight and still being on the safe side, makes me feel good. Of course, I'm trying to follow the manual as tight as possible... I didn't mentioned I did exactly what you suggested. In order to practice bullet seating and crimping, well... adjusting dies first, I didn't insert new primer nor charge the case with powder. Now I have few rounds with bullet crimped in place and no primer or powder, just empty holes
After I found and set the bullet depth and amount of crimp I start resizing, priming, charging, seating and crimping.
It should be all good as I was very focused, but being new in reloading I was thinking no question is too much...
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Old August 3, 2011, 06:44 PM   #6
ViktorC
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TATER, (others feel free) what are the signs of over crimp after discharge?
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Old August 3, 2011, 06:55 PM   #7
Lost Sheep
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Overall Length

ViktorC

Thanks for asking our advice.

If a cartridge is too long or too short it may have trouble passing through the action from the magazine to the chamber. It may also not have enough contact between the cartridge neck and the sides of the bullet for the brass to hold onto the bullet when firing. Such a hold is important to build up the pressure for the powder to burn correctly. Smokeless powder needs high pressure to reach the design burning rate.

If a cartridge is too short, the danger is much different. If a bullet is too deep in the case, the volume of free space (not actually occupied by powder granules) can be very small. A small space that is TOO small can let pressures climb very high very quickly and climb beyond what your primer, brass cartridge or firearm's steel can contain.

That's the bad news.

Here's the good news.

Your loading amounts and dimensions are all within SAAMI (Small Arms Ammunition Manufacturing Institute). That's what the loading manuals are for, to keep you safe.

You are golden. Go forth and enjoy.

High pressure is often indicated by difficult extraction, primers that have had the firing pin dent blown back out, primers that have been perforated, case head separation, case mouth splits, short case life, and a long list of others. Watch for these. If you find one, it may not mean high pressure, but just soft primers or something, but if you do find one, come back and ask.

What I am telling you with the above paragraph is to be observant. You have already demonstrated that you are. I am confident that you and your 94 will do well for many years to come.

Lost Sheep
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Old August 3, 2011, 07:27 PM   #8
Wag
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From what you've written, you should be. . .

Quote:
You are golden. Go forth and enjoy.
You'll be good.

--Wag--
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Old August 3, 2011, 09:12 PM   #9
ViktorC
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Guys Thank you all for your help and kindness, I sure will come back to the forum after visiting range and report how it went. Feel reassured everything will be OK after hearing from you...
regards
something tells me I will enjoy this hobby for a very long time
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Old August 3, 2011, 10:38 PM   #10
Wag
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Guaranteed!

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Old August 4, 2011, 09:34 AM   #11
Uncle Buck
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ViktorC, you are not alone. I remember the first rounds I shot out of my .45 Colt. Apprehension was very high. I knew I had followed the directions.

Worked well with me and a new addiction was born.

Congratulations on a great hobby and welcome to a great forum.
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Old August 4, 2011, 10:14 AM   #12
TATER
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Quote:
what are the signs of over crimp after discharge?
Victor, Over crimp will rear its head way before that.
Signs of over crimp can range form so subtle that you can't really see it to
badly deformed and collapsed shoulders, swollen cases and crushed cases but,
Usually all have one thing in common, They won't chamber.
Also, I would use Hodgdons Data. While, I do feel they have gotten very
Conservative, It's a sure bet you won't screw up.
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Old August 4, 2011, 12:57 PM   #13
ViktorC
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Yes, I plan on investing is some more books and manuals and keep comparing. Guy that works in local cabelas showed me (I think) hornady's book with recepies that had 32 grains of W748 recomended with 170grns FP bullet instead of 29.7grns that I went by, he said something like - "they are going "hot""
I figured he meant max load?
Manual that came with LFCD stated -if four sections of FCD all connect during handle push maximum cripm is applied, I had my nose almost inside of that crimp die and yeah - those sections all connected.
I will try to take nice close up picture and post it...
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Old August 4, 2011, 02:32 PM   #14
jonboyc
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this reminds me of the first time I fired my reloads. I remember looking back at my dad and saying "it's been nice knowing you" and then pulling the trigger. It was amazing seeing the first hole created by something I put together.
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