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Old July 30, 2011, 05:49 PM   #1
tahunua001
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357 for hunting?

hello all,
I love to hunt, I love to shoot. I have my bolt guns for hunting and my semis in cheap calibers for shooting. I am curious about getting a lever gun in a pistol cal. I hear generally high praise for the marlin 336c. so would you use 357 for any hunting at all? I know with a pistol I probably wouldn't trust it on anything bigger than coyote but I'm not too familiar with the ballistics of a 357 out of a rifle.
is it effective up to 100 yards?
is it even accurate at 100?
what is the biggest thing you'd hunt with it?
would I be better off putting my money towards sumting else?
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Old July 30, 2011, 05:55 PM   #2
jimbob86
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Effective for hunting what?

It does not have enough energy to be legal to hunt deer in Nebraska..... state laws vary, but it would still be pretty marginal for deer, IMO.

Coyotes? Sure.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:46 PM   #3
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Not enough energy for deer in Neb? Guess a .30-30 isn't enough either huh?

.357 from a rifle or carbine comes dang close to .30-30 in enregy levels. You will get slightly less pentration due to bullet diameter and trajctory and energy retention down range will suffer but a .357 from a rifle is fine out to over 100 yards. As for accuracy some lever guns a 3" groups, most will do 2" groups with ammo it likes some will do MOA. Either way they have plemty of accuracy for coyote and deer out to 100 yards, some even farther.

LK

BTW, the Marlin 336 is not a .357 but a .30-30 or .35 Rem.
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:04 PM   #4
JerryM
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I would not consider using a .357 for deer no matter what gun it was to be shot out of.
Jerry
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:17 PM   #5
L_Killkenny
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Sorry Jerry, you're gonna have to back up that reasoning with something because there are boat loads of deer killed with .357 handguns let alone carbines and rifles. Basically, you put out nothing more than a drive by post.

LK
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:23 PM   #6
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I'll take the advice of Paco Kelly over most anybody. Some of his loads are "hot" but for sure you could kill deer, black bear, ... with a .357 mag in a lever gun. Here is a link to his article posted on Leverguns "357 Magnum and the Literature"
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/3...literature.htm
"I have no idea how many deer I have taken with 357s, but we lived in the wilderness of the southeast for over five years. I harvested from 20 to 25 deer a year and kept the Kelly family and many neighbors in game meat.. including hogs and a few black bear"
As Paco states, you are good out to 150 yards.
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:37 PM   #7
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For two and four legged vermin, the 357 is great. For deer? Negative. A 357 was my first handloaded cartidge some 40 years ago. I've seen all these whoopdedoo loads recently with 180 and 200gr bullets. The reason I got a 41 and 44 Mag was I couldn't get the performance. The Oehler 33 don't lie, a 200 JHP in 41Mag, travelling 1400fps cannot be approached by any 357, safely.
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:48 PM   #8
L_Killkenny
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The Oehler 33 don't lie, a 200 JHP in 41Mag, travelling 1400fps cannot be approached by any 357, safely.
Not only can it be approached but exceeded. This topic is about .357 lever guns not handguns.

LK
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Old July 30, 2011, 08:16 PM   #9
tahunua001
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some rat bastard told me the 336 came in 357...ok now that I've actually done my research, we'll trade 336 for marlin 1894c with an added question
how do the 1894s compare to their 336s?
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Old July 30, 2011, 08:45 PM   #10
JACK308
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a .44 mag. will do even a 45/70
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Old July 30, 2011, 08:53 PM   #11
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I've shot a contender in 45/70, I would trust that thing on anything short of a freaking grizzly within a hundred yards...those things pack a whallup. and any barrel longer than 18" I probably would trust it with a grizzly.
45/70 is expensive as heck though, even to reload. hence staying with a fairly common chambering
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:14 PM   #12
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I have a Marlin 1894c in .357. With Buffalo Bore 180's it gets nearly 1900 ft/sec which is close to 30-30 power. I am hoping to get Winchester 94 in .44 magnum which approaches 45/70 power. It casts a 300 gr bullet at 1800 ft/sec which is right up there with the 45/70. That makes it an excellent camp gun with interchangeable handgun ammo. That makes it quite versatile and powerful. The .454 can be shot in the Puma lever rifle as well.
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:20 PM   #13
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WOW some of Ya'll must have some mighty tuff deer.I wish someone would of told Me you cant kill deer with a .357 because this 6' GP 100 aint heard it either. Guess I better read the manual again this little handgun all ready took 5 white tail,dang nobody tells me anything must of gutted them deer alive. LOL.
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:58 PM   #14
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Quote:
I am hoping to get Winchester 94 in .44 magnum which approaches 45/70 power. It casts a 300 gr bullet at 1800 ft/sec which is right up there with the 45/70.
You will get close to the low pressure Trapdoor Springfield 45-70 loads... Fortunately, you can load the 45-70 up
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Old July 30, 2011, 10:04 PM   #15
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My first deer was killed with a 357 magnum lever gun.

I have used it on Coyotes and on Hogs.

I would say a hot loaded 357 magnum is about the same as a medium loaded 30/30 out to 100-150 yards.

I think under ideal conditions it could be used on a little larger game... but that is what the 45/70 is for
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Last edited by Deja vu; July 30, 2011 at 10:23 PM.
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Old July 31, 2011, 12:31 AM   #16
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I like the .357 mag and .44 mag lever action rifles. If you want to shoot at lower cost and don't reload, you can shoot .38 Special in the .357 mag. You can shoot the .44 Special in .44 mag, but chances are the .44 Special ammo (if you can find it) will be just as much or more than the .44 mag ammo. With the right ammo, I would say the .357 mag from a carbine is a 100 yard gun for whitetail, and the .44 mag from a rifle is a 200 yard whitetail gun.
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Old July 31, 2011, 02:51 AM   #17
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depends

I'd have to agree that a .357 carbine, loaded right and slug placed properly, would be a viable deer rifle to 100 yds on the average whitetail. I would not hesitate to shoot one of our typical 125-150 pound deer w/ one here in my area, though I have never done it.

BIG whitetails or muley's going 200 plus would be another question, though not impossible.

RE the .44 mag at 200. .......... not practical. Way to much bullet drop for a useful zero. My .357 and .44 carbines get zeroed "on at 100", and the .44 kills deer (very well I might add) annually, usually at 50 yds, often less.
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Old July 31, 2011, 05:53 AM   #18
Zen Archery
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know your limitations but a .357 is a very powerful round.
if you are a re-loader you can def get some good performance.
if you are not a re-loader, over the counter ammo will do just fine as long as you understand the bullets efficiency and your own limitations.
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Old July 31, 2011, 10:54 AM   #19
tahunua001
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I'm not a reloader but my brother is. he has a 357 for concealed carry but I dont know whether he tinkers around with 357 loads or not, I think he only bothers reloading rounds that either has a wide variation of possible loads or that he can do for vastly cheaper than shelf price
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Old July 31, 2011, 11:01 AM   #20
Deja vu
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Quote:
I'm not a reloader but my brother is. he has a 357 for concealed carry but I dont know whether he tinkers around with 357 loads or not, I think he only bothers reloading rounds that either has a wide variation of possible loads or that he can do for vastly cheaper than shelf price


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...sting-_-676581

$133.99 for 1000 Bullets

http://eastcoastgunsales.com/product.php?ID=93854

$30 for 1000 small pistol primers

Powder is diffacult to price because there are so many verablies... Going cheep you could likkly get a box of 50 rounds for $8-$10
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple

Last edited by Deja vu; July 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM.
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Old July 31, 2011, 11:52 AM   #21
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There ain't a whitetail deer in North America that a .357 rifle/carbine won't kill when hit in the boiler-room @ 100 yards or less. I advise the use of hard-cast or Jacketed Soft points in the 158-180 gr weights as opposed to JHPs tho. Blood trailing will be similar to a bow-hit, but an animal hit as quoted won't go far. As the man said, know your gun and it's limitations and you will be good to go as long as you do your part.
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Old July 31, 2011, 01:20 PM   #22
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First deer 135 yards with a .357 Single 6 and 6" barrel with iron sights. Only deer I ever had to shoot twice. All other deer for next 26 years with a .357 but at ranges from 25 to 100 yards, average 60 yards, I don't take long range shots with a handgun at deer anymore. I moved up to a 44 mag and a 41 mag but I still have a .357, its a Dan Wesson now and used mostly for HD. I never heard a deer complain about the length of my barrel or caliber of my bullet.

I have used various rifles and shotguns but hand gunning still has a certain something about it that a long gun doesn't.
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Old July 31, 2011, 02:15 PM   #23
jimbob86
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Not enough energy for deer in Neb? Guess a .30-30 isn't enough either huh?

.357 from a rifle or carbine comes dang close to .30-30 in enregy levels. You will get slightly less pentration due to bullet diameter and trajctory and energy retention down range will suffer but a .357 from a rifle is fine out to over 100 yards. As for accuracy some lever guns a 3" groups, most will do 2" groups with ammo it likes some will do MOA. Either way they have plemty of accuracy for coyote and deer out to 100 yards, some even farther.
Even carefully loaded, a .357 Mag out of a rifle is nowhere near the 900 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards standard for rifle deer hunting in NE. ...... not by a long shot. Show me a load that develops that level of energy- even Hornady "Superformance" stuff only give you 500-600 ft/lbs.......

Quote:
.357 from a rifle or carbine comes dang close to .30-30 in enregy levels.
A .30/30 on the other hand, delivers about twice the energy at 100 yards that the best loadings of .357 mag will ...... around 1100 ft/lbs ......


So in answer to your question, No, you guessed wrong. The .30/30 is enough gun in Nebraska.

The .357 is not adequate from a legal standpoint, in Nebraska. Not nearly enough energy.

Is it appropriate in other parts of the country? Maybe..... I have seen the dog sized animals folks back east refer to as deer .....and finding a place to shoot where you can see beyond 100 yards usually involves a power line ROW ......

From my experience, pistol cartridges are marginal at best for deer.

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Last edited by jimbob86; July 31, 2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old July 31, 2011, 02:21 PM   #24
jephthai
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Originally Posted by BIG P View Post
...this 6' GP 100 aint heard it either.
I read that first as a 72-inch barrel .


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Old July 31, 2011, 03:08 PM   #25
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Even carefully loaded, a .357 Mag out of a rifle is nowhere near the 900 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards standard for rifle deer hunting in NE.
WAKE UP! You need to stop using handgun ballistics and re-do some calculations. It's not hard (downright easy as a matter of fact) to push a 180gr XTP slug at 1600 fps which gets you over 1000ft/lbs. Buffalo Bore pushes a 180 cast at 1850 from a carbine which gives you which gives it a 1368 ft/lbs.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=100

Pretty much pokes a big hole in your thinkin doesn't it?

LK
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