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Old August 1, 2011, 01:01 PM   #26
Art Eatman
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Always keep in mind that there is a difference between actually hunting a big bear, where you're very alert and looking for a good shot at a fair distance--vs. casually hiking along and not knowing where a stray bear might be.

Quite a few "lesser" cartridges will make a clean kill although not necessarily right then and there. "Stopping", on the other hand, means as near to instantaneous as possible.
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Old August 1, 2011, 01:27 PM   #27
Alaska444
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Hunting and stopping with these bears become one and the same in many cases. That is why with the availability of these large caliber cannons that guides make them mandatory for a hunt. The .300 win mag is gun that can kill a bear, but will it stop the bear in a full charge? Most guides start at .338 and go up from there for this reason alone.
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Old August 1, 2011, 01:52 PM   #28
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45/70 Govt is a great Caliber for large bears.
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
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Old August 1, 2011, 02:08 PM   #29
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A 45-70 is the best all around bear killer I think it can also cut some brush if they are in the thick stuff too.
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Old August 5, 2011, 05:39 AM   #30
Jack O'Conner
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444 Marlin shooting Speer 270 grain bonded core bullet will get the job done if you do your part.

Jack
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Old August 5, 2011, 12:25 PM   #31
Alaska444
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Quote:
Jack O'Conner
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Location: Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
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444 Marlin shooting Speer 270 grain bonded core bullet will get the job done if you do your part.

Jack
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+1, most folks discount the .444 yet at the same time tout the .500 S&W when in actuality, the .444 has higher powered ballistics.

http://www.ballistics101.com/500_sw.php

I use the Buffalo Bore 335 gr bullets as my woods rounds and as predator protection. There are reports of it killing a grizzly after going through and through the chest and dropped the critter within 50 feet. Buffalo Bore has a report also about a man who dropped a large buffalo at 90 yards with one shot, go to reviews on this link. The .444 is a great bear defense caliber and in my Marlin, the recoil is only like a 20 ga.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=156

Quote:
This grizzly was killed at point blank range in self defense by Mike Leslie of Soldotna, AK. During a dark night the bear attempted to break through the cabin door. They tried to scare it off but the bear persisted in its attempts to enter the cabin. Mike shoved his .444 Marlin through a crack in the door and fired. The next morning the bear was found dead, about 50 feet from the cabin. The 335 gr. hardcast Buffalo Bore load had gone through its chest.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...=ammo-reviews5
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Old August 6, 2011, 10:45 AM   #32
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I live near and hunt in the area that is said by the US Fish and Wildlife to have the highest concentration of Grizzly bears in the world per square mile. I see them all the time. There are incidents in Wyoming fairly commonly, but most are not reported outside the area unless someone is killed, so badly hurt they need to be transported out of state.
I can tell you faithfully that straight penetration and power are vital, but IN THAT ORDER!
The man that said a 270 with a good bullet will do the job is 100% correct.
However there is a HUGE difference between hunting, where we shoot at an animal when we get to pick the shot, and defense, where the animal gets to pick the ground and the time.
I would not even half step to HUNT grizzlies with my 270 loaded with 160 grain Nosler Partitions. But when I hunt elk in grizzly country I usually carry something more powerful. My "go to rifle" is my Mauser in 375H&H. I don't need anywhere near that much power to kill elk, but when I am field butchering an elk, or packing one out, or just around camp where I know there are grizzlies close by, I just feel better with a very powerful rifle.

Now, the one thing that is not said often enough is about practical marksmanship. The idea that you can go buy a 416 Remington and be better off than you were with a 30-06 is simply not true.

If you can hit a 6" ball at 10 yards EVERY time in under 2 seconds with your 30-06 and you can't with your 416, you are WAY WAY WAY better off with the 30-06. And the 220 grain 30-06 load is well accepted as a very good load for Grizzlies.
You may not need a new rifle. You may need a new load, and what you DO NEED is the ability to shoot fast and ACCURATELY!That goes for handguns and shotguns too.

When I was the CEO of Cast Performance Bullet Company I did tests of our bullets in various shells and I also tested what our competition made. I did more tests than I can count. One thing I remember was how well the 270 Winchester penetrated with good bullets. The 150 grain Barnes was unreal. The Nosler 160 gr bullet was outstanding too.

Archers kill bears with arrows and they have no “impact” in comparison to a rifle bullet, but they still kill. Why?
Because of penetration and hemorrhage. If you can get an exit wound from you rifle and load, you can do no more damage with that shot, unless the wound is bigger in diameter.
With size comes recoil in most cases.

So choose a weapon and ammo that will penetrate, and that you can shoot WELL! Bigger is only better if you don't give up your ability to hit well and fast.

I base my opinion on my own experience and the experience of thousands of shots and hundreds of hunters that I corresponded with when I was the CEO, and when I was doing the ballistic testing at Cast Performance Bullet Company.

I gleaned details for years from hunters all over the world, and not just about the bullet we made, but about every shot I could get info on, from every cartridge and bullet I could get hunters and guides to talk to be about.

I may get called names for saying this, but I am firm in my conviction that you are far better off with a 25-06 with a Barnes 120 grain bullet that you can shoot WELL then you are with a 460 magnum (or any other shell) with any bullet--- if you can’t shoot it well.With big bears only GOOD hit count.
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Old August 6, 2011, 08:02 PM   #33
Art Eatman
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Wyosmith, excellent summary. Save the URL for the next time this same subject comes up.

Anyone wanna make bets on how soon?
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