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Old July 24, 2011, 01:38 AM   #1
trymorne
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loads for a h&r 45 70

I need help i had an old h&r 45 70 laying around ive cut down to 14 inchs to add a suppressor only to lose the suppressor. so i thought id have alittle fun with it ive got alot of hornady 500grn dangerous game projectiles im looking for some rather heavy duty loads.i dont usually shy away from recoil i was hoping someone could help thanks
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Old July 24, 2011, 06:50 AM   #2
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< Nevermind, missed that you're in New Zealand >
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Old July 24, 2011, 07:39 AM   #3
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Without knowing what powders you have on hand, might I suggest that you try the Hogdgon Reloading Data Center. Lots of .45-70 loads there, from mild to wild.
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Old July 24, 2011, 01:26 PM   #4
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Ken Waters, in his 1970s groundbreaking article that created the three action strengths for the .45-70, rated the H&R Safari break-open .45-70 as equal to the new 1873 Springfield "trapdoor" .45-70.
This is the "Group 1 - Weak Rifles" category.
That said, you can probably safely use loads intended for the 1873 Springfield, but no hotter.
The article is in the book, "Handloader's Digest No. 7," which is copyrighted 1975. Though the article is old, the information is still applicable.

Waters did not list any 500 gr. jacketed bullet loads in the Group 1 section. I've found numerous references to 500 gr. lead, lubricated bullets suggested for the 1873 Springfield, but no jacketed bullets.
You cannot just swap bullets with this data; the lead bullets produce far less friction and resulting pressure than jacketed bullets.

You will probably have to contact the powder manufacturers and ask them for a Group 1 load with 500 gr. jacketed bullets.

Your rifle sounds ferocious. Shooting 500 gr. bullets from a 14-inch barrel should get you a Christmas card from your local surgeons and orthopedic specialists.
But your rifle is hardly the worst "thumper" I've seen. Some years ago, at the Salt Lake City (Utah) gun show, I saw a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Winchester Magnum for sale. The barrel was cut to 16 inches and the stock and forearm thinned. It weighed about 7 pounds. A rifle like that can break or fracture bones!
I left it where it was. I never quite got the hang of walking sideways.

Have fun with that beast -- and may God have mercy on you!
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Old July 24, 2011, 03:41 PM   #5
PawPaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatofeo
Ken Waters, in his 1970s groundbreaking article that created the three action strengths for the .45-70, rated the H&R Safari break-open .45-70 as equal to the new 1873 Springfield "trapdoor" .45-70.
This is the "Group 1 - Weak Rifles" category.
That said, you can probably safely use loads intended for the 1873 Springfield, but no hotter.
That was then and the H&R has been upgraded over the past 30 years. Nowadays we routinely load H&R Handi rifles to Marlin Lever level loads. It's easily capable of handling Buffalo Bore 500 grain .45-70 ammo, which says this at their website:
Quote:
Its use should be limited to the following firearms:
All Marlin 1895 (1895 Marlins are all model 336 actions, chambered in 45-70) iterations made since 1972, all Browning 1885 and 1886 copies, New England Arms Handi Rifle, T/C Encore, ALL falling block actions made of modern steel such as Ruger #1 and #3, Shiloh, Christian and Persoli Sharps, all Winchester 1886 iterations made since 1915 and all Siamese Mauser bolt actions.

Never use this ammo in ANY original or reproduced "Trap Door" action as the design is far too weak.
With all respect to Ken Waters, we've found that the current Handi rifles are capable of handling pressures far above the old Trapdoor loads.
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Old July 24, 2011, 04:22 PM   #6
mwells72774
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45-70 handi's are beasts! I own a few and they handle some hot loads with no signs of fatigue
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Old July 24, 2011, 08:54 PM   #7
TX Nimrod
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Quote:
With all respect to Ken Waters, we've found that the current Handi rifles are capable of handling pressures far above the old Trapdoor loads.
Then you had best read the OP's post more carefully:
Quote:
...i had an old h&r 45 70 laying around...
Unless you are prescient you have no idea of the metallurgy of the OP's frame. Do you know when it was made? "Marlin level" loads could cause severe damage to a 1970s-vintage frame, or to a current "shotgun" frame (which are not recommended for high pressure loads either).

If the OP's frame is a rifle frame of recent manufacture then it is most likely safe with "Marlin level" loads. I own a H&R Shikari in .45-70 purchased new in 1973, and there is no way I'd ever fire 40,000 cup level loads in its cast iron frame.


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Old July 25, 2011, 01:40 AM   #8
trymorne
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thanks for your info mates its given me alot to mull over the rifle does happen to be a shikuri but im rather sure its had little use and seems sound
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Old July 25, 2011, 01:43 AM   #9
Edward429451
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From what I can tell, Reloader7 powder must be made for 45/70 because it seems to me like it shoots everything good and the hotter the better.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:49 PM   #10
PawPaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trymorne
the rifle does happen to be a shikuri but im rather sure its had little use and seems sound
In that case, I wouldn't shoot anything but trapdoor loads through it. However, there are some trapdoor loads for 500 grain cast bullets. Proceed cautiously, and have fun. I'm sure you'll find the recoil you're looking for.
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Old July 25, 2011, 04:04 PM   #11
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I'm sure you'll find the recoil you're looking for.
...and the BLAST, as well... a 14" barrel?? Mercy...
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Old July 25, 2011, 05:05 PM   #12
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More than likely you'll have ADI powders available moreso than any other.Looks like AR2206 would be the best one under that bullet. Muzzle blast is going to be fierce though. Look at the ADI website for the data:
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/
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