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Old July 18, 2011, 02:54 AM   #1
8rubberduck
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Upgrade from a Piggyback 2, Advice

Ok, I have a Rock Chucker with a piggyback 2.
I don't have any problems other than this thing messes up a bit. It has been sent back to rcbs and they have it working ok but its outdated and I am considering a move towards a new press. Here are the options I am considering,
Lock N Load
Pro 2000
650

Most of my dies are Lee, with an RCBS here and there.

RCBS + I have many shell plates, maybe 10 for the rcbs. They are interchangable with the Pro 2000. I love customer support at RCBS.

Lock N Load + I have read that there are priming problems but it could just be opperator error.

Dillon + You know what I have heard. Blah, Blah, Blah, Dillon, Jesus, Dillon.

I have checked out videos of all 3 and I'm sure they are all good. I just want some guidance.
I would like opinions from those who have reloaded on more than just one press (DILLON)
Not picking on DIllon, I have just read a few too many DIllon fanboys who appear to have only reloaded on a Dillon.
Thanks guys.
Ohh, P.S. Did you guys know Americans voted for Obama? I love America, but apparently hate Americans.
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Old July 18, 2011, 09:51 AM   #2
F. Guffey
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8rubberduck, I have two piggy back presses, one was a piggy back (before the #2) the other is a piggy back two, the difference is/was the case activated powder system, the first piggy back did not have the lock out.

RCBS Shell plates, you have 10, that is an investment, going with the Pro 2000 has its advantage, the 5 position press allows for a lock out die when loading straight wall cases and the visible powder checker for bottle neck cases. When using the RCBS system it is not required to purchase change over kits and powder systems, a lot of room and money can be used up with the support system for the Dillon.

The Piggy Back 1 & 11 will not load anything longer than a 223, anyhow, I have one of the Piggy Back presses dedicated to large primer instillation and the other for small primmer instillation, and yes to the messing up, the primer tubes are not shielded meaning if there was a sympathetic explosion it is not likely the tube would survive, and yes, RCBS offered to update my Piggy Back 1 to Piggy Back 11, at that time they were running out of parts so I took them up on their offer.

I have no shortage of presses, when using the Piggy Back presses, more time than not I install primers with the Lee or RCBS hand primer system then finish with the Piggy Back.

There was an advertisement soliciting support for 'ONE MORE AFTER MARKET TOOL' seems some are not happy with the fit between the Pro 2000 press and the tool heads, If I thought that was a problem I would knurl the edges of the RCBS tool head to remove slack??

Then there is the after market sales for the Dillon powder bar adjustment, if Dillon does not think it is worthy of consideration for improvement? Yes, I suggest the RCBS Pro 2000, over the 550B, if for no other reason, the shell holders, if you go with the Dillon you will still need shell holders and change over kits and powder systems.

F. Guffey
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Old July 18, 2011, 10:06 AM   #3
F. Guffey
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and you did say 650, shell plates get more expensive and then still there are change over kits.
Change over kits, it is possible to check the numbers in the kits to check for multiple applications, after a few it is possible to load another caliber with out purchasing another kit, or it is possible to add a few pieces and parts to the kits to load additional calibers.

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Old July 18, 2011, 02:20 PM   #4
GWS
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I only have one day's experience with the Dillon 650. Nice press, but not for everybody.

Hornady's....no experience. Personal thing....I prefer removable tool heads and can be put away ready to reload with as a set....again that's just a personal druther.

I went though the process of deciding on a progressive 3 years ago. Really looked close at the Dillon and Pro 2000. After analyzing and trying both, I picked the Pro 2000. Better? No. Just as good yes. Different features? Yes. It just fit my needs better. Your needs should come first.

Pro 2000 isn't for everybody either, but it fit me perfectly. What do I like about the Pro 2000?
  • Heavy-duty cast-iron Press (the only one except maybe the dillon 1050)
  • The fast and super safe APS primer system. I have extensive time on tubes and strips...APS with preloaded CCI strips is so fast, I'd never go back to tubes.
  • The removable shell plates
  • The Uniflow Powder measure with easily adjustable mic. (similar to Hornady's)
  • The 10 sec primer size changeover.
  • Fast caliber changeover with easy to readjust, dump, and refill powder measure.
  • No slow-caliber-change case loader.
What I added?
Simple impovement mods to the APS system.
Modded Hornady Bullet feeder that is super quick to change calibers.

And you have 10 shellplates???? That's a $300 plus investment.

Last edited by GWS; July 19, 2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old July 19, 2011, 07:39 AM   #5
LDBennett
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With Dillon you get a lifetime warrantee that they respect. I have used that warrantee multiple times, even when I was at fault and they would not take my money.

While I am sure the Dillon 650 is a fine press, I think the RL550B is a much better choice. The reason is the 550B does NOT have auto advance. That makes it much easier to use the press as a single stage or turret press. I do this often as any rifle cartridge that needs trimming has to have the cases sized before you can trim them (cases grow with sizing and trimming before sizing will lead to inaccurate and variable overall case length). Some times when making only a few rounds using the press as a turret press makes more sense. But for volume runs the RL550B works as a full progressive very well, indeed.

I had the LEE progressive and it broke every time I used it. I also had the Dillon Square Deal which is for pistol cartridges only and uses special dies. I out grew it in a year but Dillon took at it back for full value and applied that to the Dillon RL550B purchase. I also had a Hornady shotgun progressive press that also was problematical. Hornady brought out a replacement model because my model was so bad. When I asked for some help in updating to the new a supposedly better shotgun press they refused. That was quite a contrast to Dillon's service! I dumped the crummy Hornady press and will buy little from Hornady today.

I'd also mention that the Dillon RL550B has been around for well over 25 years with few updates. The updates they have made they have offered to current owners for free. RCBS and Dillon have during that period searched for the right model and have gone through several models in that same period. Today's RCBS and Hornady progressive presses look very much like Dillon's models. I guess Dillon got it right to start with (??).

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Old July 19, 2011, 08:21 AM   #6
reloader28
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Huh, I must have got lucky with my Piggyback. It works perfectly fine all day long.

With all those shell plates, I would defanatly go with the 2000. My brother has one and it works great. I dont like the strip priming system, but it works.

If I went back in time and could start fresh again, I would get the Hornady. I think thats a good press.

I dont personally like Dillon, so thats not a consideration to me. I wont buy one.
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Old July 19, 2011, 01:07 PM   #7
Shoney
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8rubberduck

WELCOME TO TFL!

They key words to your questions were
Quote:
I would like opinions from those who have reloaded on more than just one press (DILLON)
Guess most of the folks missed that.

I have been loading since 1960. I have two single stage presses, a 550 and an LNL AP. I have also loaded extensively on my hunting buddies 650.

The clear winner is the LNL AP, for a boat load of reasons. It also has a lifetime guarantee. t also is much less in price than both the 650 and 550

By the way, my buddy with the 650 used to give me the LOTS OF BS about Dillon. Well after he loaded extensively on my LNL, he got his wifes permission to sell the 650 and get the LNL AP.
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Old July 21, 2011, 10:35 AM   #8
F. Guffey
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Girls, girls, Stop it! You are all pretty.

Shoney, after reading your post I am of the opinion your friend had no choice but to agree with you. Again, the OP has 10 shell plates that fit both presses, the Piggy Back 11 and the Pro 2000, the Piggy Back 11 is auto advance with a case activated powder system and has as a 5 position tool head and shell plate, means nothing to most but I will not load on a progressive press without a lock out die or a powder checker die.

"Guess most of the folks missed that"

To imply you are the only one that can read is rude, I either own or have access to every modern reloading press available, I can not imagine anything sillier for me to do than to tell one of the other owners/reloaders/ buillders the Hornady is the only press to own. I am sure Hornady would be proud of my insistence and I hope most reading this could see through my attempt (motive).

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Old July 21, 2011, 07:59 PM   #9
8rubberduck
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Guffey

What is it exactly that you like about Hornady? To get you started, what is the deal with the primer system. I have read problems with the design? What is your experience of the 650 or the 2000? That is my biggest concern. Thanks for the reply.
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Old July 22, 2011, 07:46 AM   #10
F. Guffey
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If the priming system is the reason you are not purchasing a Hornady press your worries are over, serial number 7000 is/was the cut off, and, that was a few years ago but that is the nature of the Internet, reminds me of all the followers of R. Lee "Don't buy those Federal primers, because, they are more powerful"

The Hornady is auto index, has 5 positions but does not use tool heads.

http://www.icantping.com/~mmasuda/hornady_info.html

Then there is the "What category, 550B or 650 when comparing the Hornady with other presses"

Again, IF you have 10 shell plates that fit the PRO 2000?

Dillon or RCBS, the RCBS has an advantage because of the support system that comes with the Dillon, the Dillon requires two suit cases for the accessories, the RCBS powder system stays on the press and does not require change over kits.

I have nothing to gain by convencing you one press is better than the other.

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Old July 25, 2011, 04:06 PM   #11
GWS
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F. Guffy--Your link illustrates one of the aggravations of the internet...some info stays available for 10 years and is never updated.

It's a really good article about the Hornady AP but it's dated, and some parts have been upgraded. For example, if you desire the feature, both the Horn. AP and the RCBS Pro 2000 NOW can expand and charge pistol on the same Station 2 if one buys the kits to do so.

There are more threads on the three forums I hang around, about AP problems than any other brand. But to be fair, with the lower price and free bullets offered, (Hornady seems to be outselling even Dillon right now) there may be more chances that somebody has problems.

I don't have anything against any of the progressives, they all do the job well if one takes the time to learn to use them. More important is finding the one that fits your reloading style and needs best. There are many people who have Hornady's primer problems and case feeder problems under control....and some that don't... If you can think things out and excel at using common sense, you can make them sing! Many do.

If you plan to load a lot of calibers, especially if you want to change calibers really often, the easiest press to change over quickly, is the Pro 2000. Why? It's simple...fewer moving parts, no case feeder to adjust and change over. The absolutely simple primer rod to unscrew and screw back in. No primer tubes to refill, and with only releasing a spring you can lift off, dump, and refill the powder measure. And best of all, nothing can go out of sync. Yes, there's a little price to pay for that simplicity. Without a case feeder it loads a tad slower....at least until you add a bullet feeder.

But keep in mind...both case feeders and bullet feeders are expensive add ons.

One more thing: If I had a Hornady, I'd buy their bullet feeder. It works with less effort and fewer glitches than their case feeder, and accomplishes the same speed increase.

In fact I did buy their bullet feeder.........I use it on my RCBS Pro 2000!

With the simple mod I made to micro-switch it and give it windows, look how fast it is to change from .45ACP to .40 S&W: Video
Stock without the mods, it's even faster.

Last edited by GWS; July 25, 2011 at 04:41 PM.
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