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Old June 10, 2011, 05:10 PM   #1
Hook686
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Blood Thirsty Pack of Dogs

I am a disabled old man. The article about the Blood Thirsty Pack of Dogs located in NE Washington showed concern for children (it's for the children ... right ?).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...3_lnk3%7C69858

Acually on reading the article I was concerned first for myself. I know dog owners and dog lovers decry that their mutts are harmless and some professing wisdom when it comes to dogs, speaking on how to recognize a dog as not a threat and how to deal with them by 'Standing tall' and speaking firmly.

I'm not all that convinced and am very concerned that with the speed of dogs I do not have much time to evaluate a course of action, and I better come up with a good one on the first try.

Reading this article I concluded with 5, or more dogs out for blood, unless I start shooting at 50 yards I'm dead meat, and my J-Frame will not cut it. I would like to hear some ideas, thoughts and maybe experiences if you live in a community where similar threat by a dog pack, or other serious animals was involved. I would like the responses to consider the older, less able body citizen ... young bucks seem to possess super powers I don't.
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:24 PM   #2
Hiker 1
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A canister of bear-spray might be a good thing to have handy. Hits animals' sinuses hard.
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:27 PM   #3
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Pepperspray could modify a pack's aggressive behavior. Bear spray may be a better alternative, although I've never even seen any or experienced the stuff for myself.

Edit : lol Hiker beat me to it!
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:29 PM   #4
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By far, the best weapon you could have for such action is a good hi capacity 12 gauge shotgun with an improved cylinder or modified choke, loaded with large lead Turkey shot.
However, if a long arm is not available, I would say a good auto pistol in 40 cal or larger would be a good pick. The 357 41 44 and 45 revolvers are also very good, but all of them (except the 357 with bullets no larger then 125 grains) will probably be problematic for they over penetration, and they hold only 6 rounds, which means you would have to be a very good marksman to do well against 5 dogs. 7 dogs-- and you'd have a real problem if they were determined.
Not all dogs are the same. Some can be turned by a wound or even scared off by the noise. Others cannot.

My friend Randy is a former SWAT cop and told me of 2 incidents where bad-guys had Pit Bulls, and no amount of shooting would turn them. They all had to be killed. All of them kept trying to charge and fight until they were dead.

Others dogs like a large sheppard were turned by a slight would with a 9mm.

So, as with any combat, you try to arm yourself as well as you can, but there are no such things as a safe fight. Train to put the odds in your favor, and understand that any fight is dangerous.
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:44 PM   #5
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Late last year in Delaware, Ohio (reported by the Columbus Dispatch and the Delaware Gazette), . . . an elderly gent on his way to breakfast was savagely attacked by the dogs of a local thug.

If I remember correctly, they were rott/pitt mixes and supposedly gentle family pets. There were 4 of them.

The man will be severly crippled for the rest of his life, . . . dog owner got a couple years, . . . dogs were put down if I remember it all correctly.

You might google "Delaware, Ohio Gazette: dog attack" and you will get at least one article on it.

The old fellow did not have a chance at all. He is fortunate to even be alive today, . . . and only is so after many weeks at a major university hospital.

May God bless,
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:44 PM   #6
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Where would these attacks probably take place? If in a city, and attacks have happened in the city, you might be arrested if you start shooting at 50 yards.

Bear spray would seem to be very effective. There is a spray for dogs, and I think it is HALT, that can be found in bicycle shops. It is designed for dogs.

I doubt you will want to carry a rifle or shotgun around all the time, and I would go for a high capacity Glock or something similar.

Oven cleaner would stop them, and I would not care if it blinded them.

Even in town I carry when out for a walk, and it is for dogs more than BGs.

Regards,
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Old June 10, 2011, 05:50 PM   #7
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Some "harmless" dogs came through my pasture and hamstrung one of my granddaughter's horses, crippling it.

Twice they caught my wife at the mail box (on the highway a mile from the house) and wouldn't let her out of the truck. That wont happen again.

When I see packs of stray dogs I'll take care of it. Since they don't use perpper spray on my horses I wont use pepper spray on them.
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Old June 10, 2011, 06:32 PM   #8
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I just read about the pack in Washington State. I would carry a pepper spray, but my first action would be to shoot and kill all of them I could. If convenient I would carry either a SA or pump shotgun.

When dogs form a pack they become killers of people and animals.
I hope they can kill them soon. I suspect that a couple of shots from a shotgun would set the pack running in retreat, but who knows how they might react at any particular time.

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Old June 10, 2011, 06:47 PM   #9
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Genetics of the domesticated dog or offspring provide no fear of man. Thus a pack of these animals are doubly dangerous. Feral dog packs strike terror in those who realize their threat. I suggest a Glock in addition to your J frame.
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Old June 10, 2011, 10:10 PM   #10
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Go to a higher capacity firearm if you can. Lots of people say that if I can't stop an attack wit X number of rounds, more won't help, but those people are full of poop.
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Old June 10, 2011, 11:24 PM   #11
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Dogs act differently in a pack. Carry a hi cap pistol.
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Old June 10, 2011, 11:37 PM   #12
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I would think the first order of business in to call Animal Control to tell them of a pack of dogs. Don't know the laws where you are but most cities have regulations about dogs being on the loose.

With that being said, I always have my EDC gun within easy access. As with most packs of anything, there is usually a defined leader. If there is no escape route, determine the leader. Yup, us old guys have to evaluate a little different from the youngsters. Formulate a plan and review it from time to time. Decide on how you would best handle it given your set of circumstances and then be prepared.

Good luck.
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Old June 11, 2011, 12:03 AM   #13
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I'm normally one of those who advise keeping cool when it comes to dogs.

However, there is a difference between dogs, and dog packs.

There is also normally a qualitative difference between dogs owned by drug dealers and lowlifes, and dogs owned by most of the rest of us.

Each person's environs should dictate how they react to dogs, to at least some extent. If you know the people down the road want to be known as having big, bad, mean dogs, you can probably assume those dogs won't be friendly.

On the other hand, the neighbor's shepherd, that normally plays in the yard with the neighbor's kids, will probably be more bark than bite in most circumstances.

But even dogs that normally behave pretty well can become different animals when in packs. The pack is its own beast.
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Old June 11, 2011, 12:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Acually on reading the article I was concerned first for myself. I know dog owners and dog lovers decry that their mutts are harmless and some professing wisdom when it comes to dogs, speaking on how to recognize a dog as not a threat and how to deal with them by 'Standing tall' and speaking firmly.
A dog can be a loving pet, good around the children, etc., and become a danger to humans or livestock when running with a pack.

Same goes for a lot of humans who do bad things when they "run with the pack".

NEVER trust a bunch of dogs running together.
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Old June 11, 2011, 12:08 AM   #15
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Yes, definitely call animal control and see if they can assist, also keep records of your calls. This could be helpful if there is an actual incident. You might also consider contacting the media sometimes they eat these stories up. This might prod the local municipality to do something about the problem.

I believe you are correct about the difficulty of shooting all the dogs in a charging pack. Like several have said a shot gun might be a better choice, but can you really carry one around all the time? If it were me I would really investigate the bear spray idea and see how practical that might be.
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Old June 11, 2011, 01:34 AM   #16
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If you live in a rural area, I would invest in one of these:

http://www.mossberg.com/products/def...ction=products

The 930SPX is lightweight, is chambered for 3" magnum shells, and is one of the sweetest, soft-recoiling shotguns I have ever fired. While at the range, I fired one of these, loaded with 3" magnum 1 1/4 oz slugs. The recoil was just a hair more than the felt recoil of my Winchester 1300 that I was using to dust clays with hi-velocity #7 shot. It also cycles literally as fast as you can pull the trigger.

I'd have one of these handy if you are out and about on your property. If the concern is dogs, load with #1 Buck, high velocity 2 3/4 shells. If they come in a pack, pick your targets and light them up. I would also keep something like a Glock full size, possibly a .40 (Model 22) for a quick transition if they want more than you have already.

Word of advice--if you find yourself on the bad end of a dog pack, NEVER TURN YOUR BACK. You WILL be attacked, and they will try to drag you down.

In this situation, you literally can't have enough bullets. If you're a good enough shot, an AR15 carbine loaded with 55 grain softpoint will do the job.
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Old June 11, 2011, 01:39 AM   #17
Hook686
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Thanks for the comments. The bear spray idea strikes me as probably the best idea to try ... together with carry a higher capacity handgun. My S&W 627, 8 shot .357 magnum, will have to do in this type situation.
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Old June 11, 2011, 02:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
When dogs form a pack they become killers of people and animals.
Meh...

Not so much.

Dogs, regardless of whether they are pets, or feral, WILL adopt a "pack" mentality when in a group. However, that pack has a leader, and that leader significantly influences the behavior of the group/pack.

Predators go for easy prey. While a feral dog pack may target a human, the pack, as a whole, will NOT be committed to fight to the death for the prey item. Shoot one, or more, and the pack will more than likely realize that you are NOT a worthy prey item. They may continue to test, however, their attacks will NOT be as committed, and they will most likely flee.

As pack members, the destruction of one will influence the behaviors of the pack as a whole. Drop one, and the rest of the pack WILL be more hesitant. Drop two....

As a senior, a high cap weapon would be appropriate, however, even a 6 shot revolver will suffice IMO. The key to success is to recognize the threat and to deal with it immediately, ie, KILL one of the pack to show you are NOT an easy prey item. This action alone should suffice.
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Old June 11, 2011, 03:49 AM   #19
Nnobby45
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Quote:
Predators go for easy prey. While a feral dog pack may target a human, the pack, as a whole, will NOT be committed to fight to the death for the prey item. Shoot one, or more, and the pack will more than likely realize that you are NOT a worthy prey item. They may continue to test, however, their attacks will NOT be as committed, and they will most likely flee.
Sounds like Bubba and his friends to me. As I pointed out earlier, sometimes packs of animals and humans closely resemble one another when they attack. And yes, they may scatter if they meet resistance. And may not.
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Old June 11, 2011, 04:21 AM   #20
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Might be a problem with spray if the first time you notice the dog it's clamped down hard on a part of your body. Could only be one chance for you to reach for something on your person to get rid of the first dog.
People always talk about being alert but sometimes it is Murphy's law. Loading groceries into the car while on the phone can happen and is an obvious distraction.

No experience with the scenario but frankly if you can carry something with as many bullets as you can comfortably fit, then why not? That one time you need it might be that one time you wish you had more ammo before reload
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Old June 11, 2011, 07:41 AM   #21
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If you can comfortably fire a J-frame 38, then a 9mm should be within your abilities assuming you have enough hand strength to operate the slide and other controls.

There are a number of quality, relatively high-capacity but still small enough for carry 9mm autos. Glock 26, S&W M&P Compact, Ruger SR9c come to mind.

If you live in the area where that pack of dogs is reported and are out and about in places where they might be a threat, then a higher capacity handgun seems likea prudent idea. The bear/pepper spray idea couldn't hurt either, and would give you a choice of options depending on the situation.
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Old June 11, 2011, 08:07 AM   #22
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If you dont or wont practice shooting at smaller, fast moving multiple targets, the bear spray might be the better choice. Only thing I worry about there is, one wrong shift of the wind, and/or you not paying attention, and you might be helping the dogs.

I agree with the high cap pistol, and would suggest you get accustomed to shooting multiple times on multiple targets, quickly. The first round may break the contact, but if it doesnt, you'd better be on top of your game. Keep in mind too, animals usually dont watch TV and arent influenced by what they watch. Just because you shoot them, doesnt mean it will stop them, unless you hit the kill switch right off.
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:54 AM   #23
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For a pack of blood-thirsty dogs, nothing beats a 12 gauge. If I were disabled and lived in an area where wild dogs are a problem, I would consider carrying a registered Saiga SBS. FWIW, I have caught a pack of dogs run on the back side of some rural property I own in NE Georgia. They didn't bother me, but it sure made me think.
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Old June 11, 2011, 11:47 AM   #24
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I don't know too many people who would describe themselves as "older and disabled" who could, for practical purposes, carry a shotgun around with them in their daily routines. While a shotgun would be a good weapon for putting down aggressive critters, it's probably not a useful suggestion for most people with physical disabilities.

Sprays or handguns are probably more practical. High frequency noise generators could be, too.
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Old June 11, 2011, 01:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
As pack members, the destruction of one will influence the behaviors of the pack as a whole. Drop one, and the rest of the pack WILL be more hesitant. Drop two....
Very wrong. Don't count on that. Dogs do not have to be part of a pack to behave in a feral manner. A lone dog, like a family pet, can turn feral when let out for the night. And they often do.
I have had one encounter with the law in my 72 years. I was once arrested for shooting a dog that had killed three of my registered purebred cattle. The case actually went to trial. I brought in an expert witness who said even family pets often turn feral when allowed to run loose. They can be killers then revert to gentle pets when home again. They do not need to be part of a pack.
BTW, the judge dismissed the charges saying I had a right to protect my property.
As for your best choice of protection. I carried a scoped .243 with frangible bullets in the truck and shot at long distance before they even started coming my way.
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