Question for You MEC Experts

Cary · July 15, 2011, 12:11 PM

I have a question concerning the sizing dies on the different MEC loaders. I notice the 600 Jr. Mark 5 and the Sizemaster have different dies for sizing. The Sizemaster is equipped with the collet resizer. I assume this is better for sizing but how so? Can you give me some insight on this? Thanks for your input.

Cary

zippy13 · July 15, 2011, 12:46 PM

Collets can be adjusted, ring/collar dies can't. Another advantage of the collet over a ring/collar sizing die is removal: Shells don't usually get stuck in collets, but they can in ring/collar dies. Also, a collet doesn't require a full length stroke as a ring/collar die does.

BigJimP · July 15, 2011, 01:19 PM

Adjustment - on the collet sizer - is a big thing / especially if you're shooting reloads in a semi-auto or a pump gun ....where you have to cycle the reloads thru the action vs putting them into an Over Under...( not that you shouldn't size shells going thru an O/U ..) but they are more forgiving - and don't jam...if you get a shell that wasn't quite sized properly.

and like Zippy said - you can't adjust the dies used on the 600 jr....
-------------
My hunch is - the collet resizer is a little more expensive also...so they're trying to keep the cost down on the 600 jr a little...
........................

But you're question is interesting - can't say I've ever thought about why they were different ...

TheKlawMan · July 15, 2011, 01:21 PM

The collet opens and closes like the petals of a flower. Collet means "people of victory". Aren't you sorry you asked?

BigJimP · July 15, 2011, 01:22 PM

If he isn't ...I am now ....

Cary · July 15, 2011, 03:20 PM

I use collet neck sizing dies for my bottle neck rifle cartridges and love them in that application as they work the brass less enabling longer brass life. Another advantage is you are not required to use case lube when using them. I am familiar in that application but was curious as to their application in shotshell reloading. I do like to have things adjustable in case an adjustment is needed. Thanks for the info guys.

Cary

zippy13 · July 15, 2011, 09:17 PM

My hunch is - the collet resizer is a little more expensive also...so they're trying to keep the cost down on the 600 jr a little...

Also, MEC had the ring sizer long before they developed the collet sizer.

oneounceload · July 16, 2011, 09:17 AM

And all of my shells sized with a sizing ring on MEC Jr's have NEVER failed to load in any semi auto gun - even the steel base hulls

To me, it is a non-issue - 6 of one, half dozen of the other

BigJimP · July 16, 2011, 12:18 PM

At my club - the guys that reload / that have feeding issues ...are the same guys with shell problems all the time ...and while most of them are using some of the older single stage MEC loaders ...it may be more of an operator issue vs a machine issue ....and they're the same guys that pick up any stray hull off the ground - and try to reload 19 different kinds of hulls .....

zippy13 · July 16, 2011, 01:21 PM

Jim, my friend, I'm often amused to see a high-roller type picking through the club's bin of ground harvested hulls. These are the guys who should be using PWs or other $$$$$ units. When they design the fancy fool-proof machines, these are the fools they have in mind.

I've always had good luck with MECs, and my friends are happy with theirs, too. I do know a few shooters with higher end machines, but they are typically one press re-loaders. Four PWs take up a lot of real estate on your bench.

BigJimP · July 16, 2011, 02:30 PM

I agree Zippy - it is pretty funny when those guys are going thru the garbage cans...

MEC is a relatively simple machine to maintain and repair if necessary ...and they give you a lot of machine for the money.

I think the higher end MEC's - the 9000-HN compares very well to PW, etc .../ or at least the 9000-HN's have done everything I need them to do.

TheKlawMan · July 16, 2011, 03:39 PM

Now that I am getting used to my MEC Sizemaster I like it and for me it loads quickly enough. If you shoot a lot and time is more of a premium, then I suppose you need a faster machine. One reason I got the Sizemaster was all the MEC's being exhibited at a local shooting fair had the collet, but I don't know if it is any better than the resizer that comes on the Jr.

TheKlawMan · July 16, 2011, 03:48 PM

BigJim. I was thinking about what you said about the guys going through the trash cans. The guy who routinely scours the range dumpster for hulls probably has a gun collection worth more than my house.

oneounceload · July 16, 2011, 04:23 PM

There's nothing like seeing toilet paper confetti coming out of the barrel of a $100,000 H&H because the owner/reloader uses any hull and toilet paper as filler........something to see..............

BigJimP · July 16, 2011, 05:58 PM

I realized early on ...that I wanted to keep my hulls.../ but a 20 gallon garbage can full of 12ga hulls ( and one for 20ga, one for 28ga / and a 10gallon one for .410 hulls ) is really enough. !!

What was really funny - at the state sporting clays shoot here recently - there were a number of guys shooting new factory shells ( mostly Rio / but there were some shooting Remington ) ....and a week after the shoot ...10 guys sitting in the clubhouse were still talking about all the hulls they picked up off the sporting course... ( and most of them are driving $ 50,000 SUVS ..and have some pretty nice guns ) ...

zippy13 · July 16, 2011, 06:18 PM

One of my team members would take his RV to distant tournaments while many of us of flew. We'd buy premium WW/R-Ps at the host club, and our buddy was good enough to haul our bagged hulls home. Anything we left on the ground you wouldn't wanna reload.

olddrum1 · July 18, 2011, 01:15 AM

Z my friend, are you insinuating that I am a high roller? Four will fit on a 60"x18" bench top but its tight.

zippy13 · July 18, 2011, 01:32 AM

C, my friend, if the shoe fits.

olddrum1 · July 18, 2011, 02:29 AM

Years ago the weak link in the Mecs were the arms. The ring collar dies were tight enough tolerance that after a given time of reloading the arms would fatigue and bend. Mec's answer to this was the collet type resizer. They came out with a stand alone collet resizer where you would resize the hull, knock the primer out with a punch, and then skip these two steps when reloading. If your loading alot of steel hulls, the collet type probably would be the more forgiving of the two types.
CB

olddrum1 · July 18, 2011, 02:41 AM

Now your saying I actually own shoes also, I thought we were buddies. You know its tough trying to remember all this ancient stuff from 50 years ago.

zippy13 · July 18, 2011, 03:46 PM

You'd better be wearing shoes, my friend, 'cause it's getting pretty deep 'round here.

Back to Reloading 101…
Although seldom discussed, one to the keys to MEC's success is their basic concept: Where other loader makers use castings, MEC lowered costs by using welded sheet steel. The arms on your PWs, and my Dillon, are heavy round bars: but, MEC uses two stamped and welded sheet components to make their arms. Steel is sold by the pound, a lighter reloader is cheaper to make and ship.

Cary · July 18, 2011, 05:31 PM

You guys are starting to wander here.

I've got my eyes open for a used MEC loader here local if possible. I want to see what I'm buying and there are enough local shot-gunners that I'm sure the used MEC loaders are out there. I just need to be patient for the right deal to come along. I'm willing to pay a fair price for a good loader. I think at this point the Sizemaster looks like a good unit for my use. I like that it comes with the auto-primer feeder as I think I would want that option. The collet sizer doesn't appear to be that big of an added feature from what I gather from your input on the subject. The Grabber looks like a great unit and if one comes available at a fair price I would get it as well. I've noticed in my searching that there are fewer 20 gauge units out there for sale in my area and I understand the reason. If a good deal on a 600 Jr. comes along I will also look at it seriously keeping in mind I will want to add the auto prime unit to it which will add to the cost. Can you guys give me some ball park figures for these units used. I know different regions will demand different prices and I will keep that in mind. Thanks for your help.
Cary

BigJimP · July 18, 2011, 06:08 PM

You're not going to save that much on a used machine .... Unless you really know a lot about the loaders - buying used might be a crapshoot. Buying used off the internet - is even worse.

I'd recommend Recob's Target shop / for fair prices on new machines.

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,198.html

where a ...
600 Jr will cost you about $ 138
a 650 N is about $ 265
a Grabber is $ 373 ...
a 9000GN is $ 429 ....

so yes, the Grabber is a good long term choice. Its a good solid / mid-level machine that will last a long time.

TheKlawMan · July 18, 2011, 07:39 PM

I didn't listen to BigJim and went with a used Sizemaster off of Craig's List. I saved money, but it was a PITA. I had to drive 2 hours round trip and I didn't realize that the idiot was stacking washers for a primer pad (not smart). It is also nice to get all the little goodies that I think come with a new machine (bolts to fasten it down to a bench, anti seize lubricant for the collet, spanners, and new bottles (they are plastic and plastic cracks after aging).

if you buy used its okay to hook up off the intenet, but pay for it FTF and after you see the merchandise.

BigJimP · July 19, 2011, 11:28 AM

It is possible to find some great deals on used loaders ...there are some guys out there that take really good care of their equipment / update it / replace parts as necessary ....and don't bastardize anything on it.

A loader from a source like that - might have a couple of scratches / some wear on areas like the base / or the shell holder ...and all of that is fine. But if they've replaced or adapted parts all over it ...or "customized" it in some fashion ...you have to know what you're looking at.

Its not impossible to buy a used loader off the internet ....but looking at what I see in terms of loaders at my local gunshows - and there are almost always 6 or 8 used Jr's - occasionally a grabber model - maybe a sizemaster ...and rarely a 9000 series. In my opinion - 99% of them - would be best used as boat anchors without major rebuild. And often - they want 75% or more / of what new loaders cost. If you get them home - and find a major component is bent ...or something ...we're back to that "its a boat anchor" concept.

I understand the internet is good for all kinds of things - but loaders - or guns in general - I think are a mistake / unless you are dealing with a good "bricks and mortar" wholesaler - that is just using the internet to reach a bigger customer base. Buying from a private party / maybe a guy that has health issues or something - and he's quit shooting or doesn't want to fuss with reloading anymore - then you've probably found a gem.

I'm not saying guys are dishonest either ....but a lot of them just don't take care of their stuff ....and then when it doesn't work / instead of rebuilding it - they sell it. Or they pick it up at a garage sale ...and they just re-sell it.

Just be careful ...that what looks like a deal - doesn't end up biting you.

Another perspective - if you buy new / and don't abuse it ---it will last many generations / or if you change your mind on the loader - its easy to sell.

I'm using MEC 9000-HN's in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 myself these days ....but I'm always looking for a good deal on a used Grabber or 9000-GN - even one that I can rebuild / give it to one of my adult kids. I have a good 12ga Grabber...and looking especially for a 20ga loader now ...and while I've looked at dozens - I've passed on all of them so far. Its hard to find a machine that has not been abused / or they just won't accept the fact that their machine needs to be re-built in order to be serviceable. But if I never find one - that's ok too...

July 15, 2011, 12:11 PM	#1
Cary Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 91	Question for You MEC Experts I have a question concerning the sizing dies on the different MEC loaders. I notice the 600 Jr. Mark 5 and the Sizemaster have different dies for sizing. The Sizemaster is equipped with the collet resizer. I assume this is better for sizing but how so? Can you give me some insight on this? Thanks for your input. Cary __________________ Shooters. We are a community. United we stand divided we fall.

July 15, 2011, 03:20 PM	#6
Cary Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 91	I use collet neck sizing dies for my bottle neck rifle cartridges and love them in that application as they work the brass less enabling longer brass life. Another advantage is you are not required to use case lube when using them. I am familiar in that application but was curious as to their application in shotshell reloading. I do like to have things adjustable in case an adjustment is needed. Thanks for the info guys. Cary __________________ Shooters. We are a community. United we stand divided we fall.

July 18, 2011, 02:29 AM	#19
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 775	Reloading 101 or back in the day Years ago the weak link in the Mecs were the arms. The ring collar dies were tight enough tolerance that after a given time of reloading the arms would fatigue and bend. Mec's answer to this was the collet type resizer. They came out with a stand alone collet resizer where you would resize the hull, knock the primer out with a punch, and then skip these two steps when reloading. If your loading alot of steel hulls, the collet type probably would be the more forgiving of the two types. CB

July 18, 2011, 05:31 PM	#22
Cary Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 91	You guys are starting to wander here. I've got my eyes open for a used MEC loader here local if possible. I want to see what I'm buying and there are enough local shot-gunners that I'm sure the used MEC loaders are out there. I just need to be patient for the right deal to come along. I'm willing to pay a fair price for a good loader. I think at this point the Sizemaster looks like a good unit for my use. I like that it comes with the auto-primer feeder as I think I would want that option. The collet sizer doesn't appear to be that big of an added feature from what I gather from your input on the subject. The Grabber looks like a great unit and if one comes available at a fair price I would get it as well. I've noticed in my searching that there are fewer 20 gauge units out there for sale in my area and I understand the reason. If a good deal on a 600 Jr. comes along I will also look at it seriously keeping in mind I will want to add the auto prime unit to it which will add to the cost. Can you guys give me some ball park figures for these units used. I know different regions will demand different prices and I will keep that in mind. Thanks for your help. Cary __________________ Shooters. We are a community. United we stand divided we fall.

July 15, 2011, 12:46 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	Collets can be adjusted, ring/collar dies can't. Another advantage of the collet over a ring/collar sizing die is removal: Shells don't usually get stuck in collets, but they can in ring/collar dies. Also, a collet doesn't require a full length stroke as a ring/collar die does.

July 15, 2011, 01:19 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	Adjustment - on the collet sizer - is a big thing / especially if you're shooting reloads in a semi-auto or a pump gun ....where you have to cycle the reloads thru the action vs putting them into an Over Under...( not that you shouldn't size shells going thru an O/U ..) but they are more forgiving - and don't jam...if you get a shell that wasn't quite sized properly. and like Zippy said - you can't adjust the dies used on the 600 jr.... ------------- My hunch is - the collet resizer is a little more expensive also...so they're trying to keep the cost down on the 600 jr a little... ........................ But you're question is interesting - can't say I've ever thought about why they were different ...

July 15, 2011, 01:21 PM	#4
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,150	The collet opens and closes like the petals of a flower. Collet means "people of victory". Aren't you sorry you asked?

July 15, 2011, 01:22 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	If he isn't ...I am now ....

July 15, 2011, 09:17 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	My hunch is - the collet resizer is a little more expensive also...so they're trying to keep the cost down on the 600 jr a little... Also, MEC had the ring sizer long before they developed the collet sizer.

July 16, 2011, 09:17 AM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	And all of my shells sized with a sizing ring on MEC Jr's have NEVER failed to load in any semi auto gun - even the steel base hulls To me, it is a non-issue - 6 of one, half dozen of the other

July 16, 2011, 12:18 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	At my club - the guys that reload / that have feeding issues ...are the same guys with shell problems all the time ...and while most of them are using some of the older single stage MEC loaders ...it may be more of an operator issue vs a machine issue ....and they're the same guys that pick up any stray hull off the ground - and try to reload 19 different kinds of hulls .....

July 16, 2011, 01:21 PM	#10
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	Jim, my friend, I'm often amused to see a high-roller type picking through the club's bin of ground harvested hulls. These are the guys who should be using PWs or other $$$$$ units. When they design the fancy fool-proof machines, these are the fools they have in mind. I've always had good luck with MECs, and my friends are happy with theirs, too. I do know a few shooters with higher end machines, but they are typically one press re-loaders. Four PWs take up a lot of real estate on your bench.

July 16, 2011, 02:30 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	I agree Zippy - it is pretty funny when those guys are going thru the garbage cans... MEC is a relatively simple machine to maintain and repair if necessary ...and they give you a lot of machine for the money. I think the higher end MEC's - the 9000-HN compares very well to PW, etc .../ or at least the 9000-HN's have done everything I need them to do.

July 16, 2011, 03:39 PM	#12
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,150	Now that I am getting used to my MEC Sizemaster I like it and for me it loads quickly enough. If you shoot a lot and time is more of a premium, then I suppose you need a faster machine. One reason I got the Sizemaster was all the MEC's being exhibited at a local shooting fair had the collet, but I don't know if it is any better than the resizer that comes on the Jr.

July 16, 2011, 03:48 PM	#13
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,150	BigJim. I was thinking about what you said about the guys going through the trash cans. The guy who routinely scours the range dumpster for hulls probably has a gun collection worth more than my house.

July 16, 2011, 04:23 PM	#14
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	There's nothing like seeing toilet paper confetti coming out of the barrel of a $100,000 H&H because the owner/reloader uses any hull and toilet paper as filler........something to see..............

July 16, 2011, 05:58 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	I realized early on ...that I wanted to keep my hulls.../ but a 20 gallon garbage can full of 12ga hulls ( and one for 20ga, one for 28ga / and a 10gallon one for .410 hulls ) is really enough. !! What was really funny - at the state sporting clays shoot here recently - there were a number of guys shooting new factory shells ( mostly Rio / but there were some shooting Remington ) ....and a week after the shoot ...10 guys sitting in the clubhouse were still talking about all the hulls they picked up off the sporting course... ( and most of them are driving $ 50,000 SUVS ..and have some pretty nice guns ) ...

July 16, 2011, 06:18 PM	#16
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	One of my team members would take his RV to distant tournaments while many of us of flew. We'd buy premium WW/R-Ps at the host club, and our buddy was good enough to haul our bagged hulls home. Anything we left on the ground you wouldn't wanna reload.

July 18, 2011, 01:15 AM	#17
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 775	Z my friend, are you insinuating that I am a high roller? Four will fit on a 60"x18" bench top but its tight.

July 18, 2011, 01:32 AM	#18
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	C, my friend, if the shoe fits.

July 18, 2011, 02:41 AM	#20
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 775	Now your saying I actually own shoes also, I thought we were buddies. You know its tough trying to remember all this ancient stuff from 50 years ago.

July 18, 2011, 03:46 PM	#21
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,289	You'd better be wearing shoes, my friend, 'cause it's getting pretty deep 'round here. Back to Reloading 101… Although seldom discussed, one to the keys to MEC's success is their basic concept: Where other loader makers use castings, MEC lowered costs by using welded sheet steel. The arms on your PWs, and my Dillon, are heavy round bars: but, MEC uses two stamped and welded sheet components to make their arms. Steel is sold by the pound, a lighter reloader is cheaper to make and ship.

July 18, 2011, 06:08 PM	#23
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	You're not going to save that much on a used machine .... Unless you really know a lot about the loaders - buying used might be a crapshoot. Buying used off the internet - is even worse. I'd recommend Recob's Target shop / for fair prices on new machines. http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,198.html where a ... 600 Jr will cost you about $ 138 a 650 N is about $ 265 a Grabber is $ 373 ... a 9000GN is $ 429 .... so yes, the Grabber is a good long term choice. Its a good solid / mid-level machine that will last a long time.

July 18, 2011, 07:39 PM	#24
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,150	I didn't listen to BigJim and went with a used Sizemaster off of Craig's List. I saved money, but it was a PITA. I had to drive 2 hours round trip and I didn't realize that the idiot was stacking washers for a primer pad (not smart). It is also nice to get all the little goodies that I think come with a new machine (bolts to fasten it down to a bench, anti seize lubricant for the collet, spanners, and new bottles (they are plastic and plastic cracks after aging). if you buy used its okay to hook up off the intenet, but pay for it FTF and after you see the merchandise.

July 19, 2011, 11:28 AM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 10,046	It is possible to find some great deals on used loaders ...there are some guys out there that take really good care of their equipment / update it / replace parts as necessary ....and don't bastardize anything on it. A loader from a source like that - might have a couple of scratches / some wear on areas like the base / or the shell holder ...and all of that is fine. But if they've replaced or adapted parts all over it ...or "customized" it in some fashion ...you have to know what you're looking at. Its not impossible to buy a used loader off the internet ....but looking at what I see in terms of loaders at my local gunshows - and there are almost always 6 or 8 used Jr's - occasionally a grabber model - maybe a sizemaster ...and rarely a 9000 series. In my opinion - 99% of them - would be best used as boat anchors without major rebuild. And often - they want 75% or more / of what new loaders cost. If you get them home - and find a major component is bent ...or something ...we're back to that "its a boat anchor" concept. I understand the internet is good for all kinds of things - but loaders - or guns in general - I think are a mistake / unless you are dealing with a good "bricks and mortar" wholesaler - that is just using the internet to reach a bigger customer base. Buying from a private party / maybe a guy that has health issues or something - and he's quit shooting or doesn't want to fuss with reloading anymore - then you've probably found a gem. I'm not saying guys are dishonest either ....but a lot of them just don't take care of their stuff ....and then when it doesn't work / instead of rebuilding it - they sell it. Or they pick it up at a garage sale ...and they just re-sell it. Just be careful ...that what looks like a deal - doesn't end up biting you. Another perspective - if you buy new / and don't abuse it ---it will last many generations / or if you change your mind on the loader - its easy to sell. I'm using MEC 9000-HN's in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 myself these days ....but I'm always looking for a good deal on a used Grabber or 9000-GN - even one that I can rebuild / give it to one of my adult kids. I have a good 12ga Grabber...and looking especially for a 20ga loader now ...and while I've looked at dozens - I've passed on all of them so far. Its hard to find a machine that has not been abused / or they just won't accept the fact that their machine needs to be re-built in order to be serviceable. But if I never find one - that's ok too...