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Old July 13, 2011, 05:16 PM   #1
9-ball
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Weird hate for shotguns

I've been plagued with a weird hate for shotguns whole my life. I just can't stand the though of my rifle not making a clean single hole were I want it. Problem is, I do understand how versatile they are. Talk me out of it, please!
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Old July 13, 2011, 05:38 PM   #2
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I just can't stand the though of my rifle not making a clean single hole were I want it.
It seems you've got a rifle mind set. Rifles are aimed and shotguns are pointed. Think of a shotgun as putting a mass of holes where you want them.
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Old July 13, 2011, 05:47 PM   #3
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think of a shotgun blast as a miniature Claymore mine and your rifle shot as one of Robin Hood's arrows. What would you rather take to a fight?!? LOL...
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Old July 13, 2011, 05:48 PM   #4
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HUH???

Different tools for different jobs...I guess.
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Old July 13, 2011, 06:07 PM   #5
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Different tools for different jobs...
EXACTLY!
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Old July 13, 2011, 06:24 PM   #6
hardworker
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If you don't hunt or shoot skeet, than you have no real need for one. You don't have to like every gun out there to enjoy shooting. I have no need for a 500 smith. If I never get to shoot one I won't lose sleep.
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Old July 13, 2011, 06:28 PM   #7
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For me - shotguns ---are mechanically / and esthetically a piece of fine craftmanship ( especially with a good highly figured walnut stock ) ...and there is something fun and satisfying ....about making 25 well executed / smooth and confident shots on a Skeet, Sporting Clays or Trap field ...at moving clay targets....

I shot a 91 yesterday ( out of 100 targets ) - no great / but a good day for me these days - with poor eyesight plaguing me a little. I was at my local Skeet club / one round was a perfect 25 ...others not so much ( 21, 21, 24 .....but it was a very good day with one of my Browning Over Unders - this one in a 28ga with 30" barrels ....and some of my buddies and I had some laughs, told some lies, jabbed each other a little ...and had a great day!

What's not to like / about a day out shotgunning ....?? And I don't really care if its a $ 500 shotgun ...or a $5,000 shotgun in my hands ...its about whether I can make it "perform" for me...on that day .../or next week / or the week after ....

Versatile - sure / shotguns can kill most any target or bird that flies ...in good hands ..../ they can be tactical ( if you like that aspect ) / they can be defensive ( if you choose ) ....they can be admired for their craftmanship ...

Can a rifle or a handgun be versatile too ....sure .../personally, I depend on my 1911's for tactical defense ...my shotguns are for bird hunting and clay targets .../ too me, rifles are a little boring ....and a little boring to shoot ....(maybe its because they only make one small hole at a time ...) ....or maybe because they seem more "machine like" ...vs a more active part of my wing or clay target shooting ...

but to each his own ...we don't have to all like the same aspect of the shooting sports or gun hobby... / Shotguns are a big part of my gun hobby ...and I like it a lot ..../ and I'll always have a dozen or more shotguns around in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ..../ I have 20 or 30 handguns for a variety of reasons that I enjoy shooting every week as well ...and only a few rifles these days ....that I rarely shoot .../ but I'd suggest you investigate shotguns a little more ...and see what you find.
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Old July 13, 2011, 06:29 PM   #8
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I've hunted once and don't shoot skeet but I love my shotgun.
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Old July 13, 2011, 06:50 PM   #9
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I am trully fastinated with shotguns. All my life, I have been around both shotguns and rifles in the field. To be honest Ive had folks ask me when deer hunting why I am carring a shotgun loaded with buckshot? I have killed numerious amounts of game with both. Trully from within the bottom of my soul I choose to hunt with a shotgun over a rifle but it is harder to let things walk off after 50 yards or so.
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Old July 13, 2011, 10:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
I've been plagued with a weird hate for shotguns whole my life. I just can't stand the though of my rifle not making a clean single hole were I want it. Problem is, I do understand how versatile they are. Talk me out of it, please!
That's where your problem is. A rifle isn't a shotgun. It's a different firearm for a different purpose. Shotguns aren't supposed to make one single hole downrange unless you are using slugs, so that's a very strange reason to hate on them.

Go trap shooting and maybe you'll get the idea.
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Old July 13, 2011, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
think of a shotgun blast as a miniature Claymore mine and your rifle shot as one of Robin Hood's arrows. What would you rather take to a fight?!? LOL...
I wouldn't take a Claymore to a fight. You have to get there before the other guy, set it up, and then hope he walks in front of it.
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Old July 14, 2011, 12:06 AM   #12
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bird hunt

Take your rifle bird, say.......dove or quail hunting. Shooting doves of a phone wire does not count. See how that works out.
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Old July 14, 2011, 01:27 AM   #13
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I think it's all personal preference. I use both my shotgun and rifle hunting depending on where and what type of hunting I'm doing. When we hunt with dogs in this area, if I'm in the thick woods or similar I use my shotgun. If I'm in a wide open field I use a rifle. So I see the use for both, but honestly I much prefer the rifle. Seems they just make cleaner kills on deer, and you can shoot quite a bit further with them, but at the same time if the deer is moving or running, it's a lot harder to hit it with the rifle. My buddy that I hunt with on the other hand much prefers his shotgun, and he let someone borrow his rifle for years, and didn't care to have it back until I started using mine more and more, and then he decided he wanted to try his again, so he got it back and has been using it some, but he still prefers the shotgun.

Another guy I hunt with is the same way. He almost always uses his shotgun and hardly ever shoots his rifle. He even takes his shotgun with buckshot to the deer stand, when hunting from a stand. I think it's such a waste as he hunts in fields where he could make 100 yard shots, that he has to pass up since he has his shotgun, but he says he can't hit stuff with his rifle anymore, and he likes his shotgun better.

Then, there are 1 or 2 other guys that are like me and almost always use their rifle, and hardly ever bring out their shotguns. It's not that we don't like the shotguns at all, but that we prefer the rifles.

I almost think I could get into having a slug gun, but I've never shot one, and I hate to spend a bunch on one without having ever shot one.
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Old July 14, 2011, 05:57 AM   #14
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I've been plagued with a weird hate for shotguns whole my life. I just can't stand the though of my rifle not making a clean single hole were I want it. Problem is, I do understand how versatile they are. Talk me out of it, please!
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Old July 14, 2011, 07:56 AM   #15
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Shotguns are very versatile they can shoot a wide variety of ammunition and are good all around guns. If you hate the the go to the range and spend some time with one and shoot all sorts of ammunition and the see how you feel.
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Old July 14, 2011, 03:14 PM   #16
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Rifles/shotguns are not either/or, Montague/Capulet, or Cowboys/Sheepherders.

More like Ham and Eggs, Crabs and Nattie Boh(Chesapeakans understand) or Bagels and Lox.

They go together. One complements the other rather than supplants it.

I have more shotguns than rifles, partly due to finances and partly due to the fact that I may need a small bird small shot up close shotgun but not a quail rifle.

I do have two squirrel rifles though. One's a standard 10-22 and the other a caplock ML in 45 caliber that with a patched round ball shoots into minute of squirrel's head at 50 yards. Less than 500 rounds a year combined.

And a deer rifle, a pre safety 94 that sees maybe 10 rounds year at most.

OTOH, I'm shooting a hair less than 1000 rounds a MONTH through sundry shotguns and having lots of fun doing it.....
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Old July 14, 2011, 04:50 PM   #17
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I've always liked my shotguns because they are so versital for both hunting and home protection. I fell in love with my 12 gauge shotguns after trying the 1 oz. Federal Tru-ball slugs. I can hit a 6" circle at 100 yards and the results are fenominal.
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Old July 14, 2011, 06:59 PM   #18
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But it's a myth that shotguns open up enough at defense range to not have to aim. Shooting at birds is one thing but up close you can still easily miss so if you have to sight it like a rifle, why not go with slugs or even a rifle?

Shotguns excell at shooting birds and little else. If you take birds out of the equation, anything else is better done with a pistol or rifle.
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Old July 14, 2011, 07:56 PM   #19
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I don't think you have to sight a shotgun like a rifle, even at short range, but the guys here that have taken and taught self defense and anti personnel classes may know better.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; July 15, 2011 at 01:40 AM.
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Old July 14, 2011, 08:04 PM   #20
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Must not do any bird huntin? I love my 870 it can do anything I want it to. HD, dove, duck, quail and turkey is its main purpose other than skeet. I dont use it for deer or hogs but a shotgun is a great all around weapon. If I had to choose only one weapon to do everything for the rest of my life it would be a shotgun.
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:24 PM   #21
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Drop a fast crossing bird with a good shotgun and your opinion might be altered some.
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:43 PM   #22
Dave McC
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If I can hit small birds moving fast on unknown vectors at speed with a gun, I can hit larger,slower closer things and do it fast. And same with multiples.

Very few firearms systems can do that. And do it while unloading the kinetic energy of a car wreck.

Within 25 yards, there is no better defensive weapon than a shotgun, loaded appropriately and well known to the user.
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Old July 14, 2011, 11:08 PM   #23
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The "Myth" of not having to aim

Normally a shot pattern for normal shells (not FliteControl type cups) opens up 1" per yard from the muzzle. So for typical HD distance - yes you're going to have to aim because you're going to be creating 3"-4" holes.

However... with a rifled barrel and a load like Wolf - which is known for opening up pretty early you can get some pretty large shot patterns.

I calculated that the Wolf through rifled barrel spreads 3.6 times the "normal" rate.

Normal shot through a smoothbore would give roughly a 5" pattern at 5 yards. The Wolf through rifled opens up to 18"

So firing Wolf at 6 feet should create a 7.2" pattern, 10.8" pattern at 9 feet.

That's pretty darn close to the so called myth that you don't have to aim.

Granted the pattern takes on a ring shape...
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Old July 15, 2011, 01:18 AM   #24
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I shoot skeet or trap informally and it's a heck of a lot of fun. I have small game hunted with it but no birds. When I shoot a SG like a rifle I do real good with it, but it's range is very limited. Even with slugs I'm only good out to about 60 yds. I just think that rifles are so versatile that my 870 is superfluous. I'm not ready to sell it off or anything like that, I'm just not a bird hunter.

I think a SG is dandy for HD inside the house. I have two rounds of 00 in it and then the rest are all slugs.
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Old July 15, 2011, 02:41 AM   #25
TheKlawMan
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Pointing is Aiming but not Sighting

Count, You said that,

Quote:
Normal shot through a smoothbore would give roughly a 5" pattern at 5 yards. The Wolf through rifled opens up to 18"

So firing Wolf at 6 feet should create a 7.2" pattern, 10.8" pattern at 9 feet.

That's pretty darn close to the so called myth that you don't have to aim.
I have also had trouble with "the so called myth", but I wonder if it is no myth at all but a matter of the misuse of language. For example, I pulled up some random definition of "to aim".

Quote:
To direct (a weapon) toward an intended target.
Quote:
The pointing of a weapon, as a gun, a dart, or an arrow, in the line of direction with the object intended to be struck; the line of fire; the direction of anything, as a spear, a blow, a discourse, a remark, towards a particular point or object, with a view to strike or affect it.
I have always been a bit confused when accomplished shot gunners say you do not aim but point the gun at the bird or clay target, not to here consider shooting slugs, and I think I would agree with you that according to the commonly understood meaning of "aiming" a shotgun is aimed when it is "pointed". I probably have this all wrong and will get my come upance from our friends, but I suspect that when shot gunners say they point and do not aim they mean they do not sight down the barrel.

If I understand what I am supposed to be doing, I am working to develop muscle memory so that my guns barrel is directed at where I am looking and I am looking at the target without reference to the sight or sights. In fact, looking at the barrel or the sight nearly guarantees a miss.

In short, it comes down to semantics. In general parlance a shotgun is aimed in that it is directed, but in the jargon of clay shooters it is not aimed, since to aim means to use sights.

You are indeed correct that a shotgun has to be directed towards the target, but that is not the same as aiming with the use of sights.

I think I have to much time on my hands.
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