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Old July 11, 2011, 05:37 PM   #1
thump_rrr
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Oklahoma pharmacist Jerome Ersland sentenced to life in prison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43710936...me_and_courts/

As most of us here expected he went beyond defending himself when he shot the suspect 5 more times while lying unconscious.
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Old July 11, 2011, 05:52 PM   #2
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From the video, it appears he executed a defenseless man who no longer posed a threat. The sentence is just.
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Old July 11, 2011, 05:54 PM   #3
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I don't know for the life of me how that got called 1st degree murder. Seems extremely harsh. If someone runs up on you with a gun, you kill them, period. Obviously Ersland messed up, over reacted, and did a bit of round-dumping, but first degree murder that is not.
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Old July 11, 2011, 05:58 PM   #4
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He first shot the unarmed assailant, letting the armed one get away, then proceeded to stroll around the shop (thus making clear he himself didn't consider the downed assailant to be dangerous) before executing him.

This isn't someone making a mistake under high stress. IMHO this puts a shame on every responsible gun owner.
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Old July 11, 2011, 06:22 PM   #5
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He first shot the unarmed assailant, letting the armed one get away, then proceeded to stroll around the shop (thus making clear he himself didn't consider the downed assailant to be dangerous) before executing him.
I'm willing to bet he didn't choose to ignore the guy with gun and shoot the one without one. The first part of the shooting was completely legal and appropriate.

The second part was wrong and illegal. But, no, it was not 1st degree murder.
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Old July 11, 2011, 06:23 PM   #6
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Yea thats true 9-ball. It seems on the video he had been waiting for this day to come. He shot the 1st in the head the other guy runs and he walks over to the next one shooting him 5 more times. He probably just shot for the 1st available target which was the unarmed kid. I wouldnt call it 1st degree murder because he didnt cause the situation. He just happened to end it. However, he was totally wrong in firing followup shots into the person on the ground who was no longer a threat. I would of called 911 while holding my pistol on him.
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Old July 11, 2011, 06:30 PM   #7
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But, no, it was not 1st degree murder.
Not according to the evidence adduced before the jury and evaluated by them.

This conviction as well as the Anthony verdict affirm my beleif in the jury system, as flawed as it may be.

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Old July 11, 2011, 06:48 PM   #8
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When the person attacking you is stopped by your force or cease and desists what he is doing and flees you have to stop by law.

not that hard a concept to understand.

Mr. Ersland decided to find out the hard way.
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Old July 11, 2011, 06:52 PM   #9
TylerD45ACP
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I dont get why he did that though... he just popped him 5 more times when the guy is clearly dropped. Get on the phone call 911 and keep your firearm trained on him.
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Old July 11, 2011, 07:17 PM   #10
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First degree murder is "willfull and premeditated."

As to willful.... five shots at point blank range into an unconscious guy.... sounds kinds willful to me.

As for premeditated, he knew the kid was down and went back - later.

I know he probably wasn't thinking straight, and the adrenaline was probably coursing through him, but he did what he did.

There is a lesson here.
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Old July 11, 2011, 07:28 PM   #11
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Under Oklahoma law...

Because the deceased is a minor, it is automatically 1st degree murder, whereas had the deceased been an adult he may have gotten away with manslaughter.
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Old July 11, 2011, 07:40 PM   #12
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I think this is ridiculous simply based on the fact that the would-be robbers initiated the conflict. Obviously, he should not have gone back to finish off the perp, but life in prison is a bit much.
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Old July 11, 2011, 07:51 PM   #13
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Obviously, he should not have gone back to finish off the perp, but life in prison is a bit much.
The same way that putting 5 rounds into a kid motionless on the ground "is a bit much".
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Old July 11, 2011, 07:58 PM   #14
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motionless
I have looked at this video several times and it keeps freezing up part way through. When I watched it the first time I heard about the story, I don't recall the camera having an angle showing the would-be robber.

Is he in fact, immobilized? Or was it just testimony to that effect?
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:19 PM   #15
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This case is a perfect example of what will happen to any one of us who fires our weapon out of anger instead of a true desire to defend ourselves. Am I weeping over the life of an armed robber? Certainly not, because he made a decision and must face the consequences. However, Mr. Ersland made a decision as well and now must live with it.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:25 PM   #16
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I have to agree that he shouldn't have shot him 5 more times, BUT. You just got held at gun point and the adrenaline is pumping pretty good, coupled with fear and every other emotion going through him i don't think anyone would be thinking 100% clear. As far as I'm concerned they waived any of their rights when they decided to go and steal from someone who had worked hard for what he had. What he did wasn't right but he absolutely shouldn't spend the rest of his life in prison.


All that being said, hind-sight is 20/20 and none of us were in his shoes at the time it happened.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:30 PM   #17
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Am I weeping over the life of an armed robber? Certainly not, because he made a decision and must face the consequences.

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PS put the U in there to google it as unfortuately the family censor software precludes certain letter combos found a lot in latin
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:41 PM   #18
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Is he in fact, immobilized? Or was it just testimony to that effect?
The coroner testified that the bullet fragment in the brain had rendered the robber dormant, likely to survive, but with issues.

As for first degree murder, Ersland had to go over to the drawer of his desk and unlock it in order to retrieve the KelTec that he used to kill the robber.

It wasn't as if he felt he was in danger, fumbling to get the KT out of the drawer, then firing from a position of cover. Nope, he just walked right over and shot him multiple times and walked away as casually.

Of course, then there was all the bragging about how he had been shot in the robbery (no evidence the robbers ever fired), that he was a war hero (which he wasn't), and so on. Heck, his testimony of how the events went down didn't even come close to matching the video.
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:52 PM   #19
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DNS beat me to it; the act of getting the second gun out of the drawer, and the time lapse involved between the initial incident and the shooting with the second gun, are all that would be needed to establish premeditation in most states.

WW2, that's an interesting theory, about the victim's age making it 1st degree murder, but I have to call shenanigans. Please cite ANY law that says the victim's age is what determines the existence of premeditation.

You can probably find plenty of laws that would make the shooting of a minor an aggravating circumstance, which would come into play in the penalty phase, but I'll be amazed if you can find any law that says what you claim.
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Old July 11, 2011, 10:04 PM   #20
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This story really brings me down.

I watched the video a couple dozen times and it's clear he knew exactly what he was going to do the moment he walked back into the store. He switches the gun to his other hand, reaches into his pocket, pulls out keys, and then unlocks the drawer.

The man messed up and deserves what's coming.
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Old July 11, 2011, 10:27 PM   #21
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I saw this fellow on TV, local, this evening being taken from the courtroom.

Must have been a slow news day.
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Old July 11, 2011, 10:31 PM   #22
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As I've said, u can shoot them til they're down, but not til they're dead.
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Old July 11, 2011, 11:54 PM   #23
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So the two armed youn MEN came into his store and threaten him with his life and instead of pacifically giving in to it like the media suggests we all do, he stood up for himself. And now he's going to jail.

I'm so disappointed that the message people take away from this is to not defend themselves. The media says "Let the thieves take your possessions and what you've worked so hard for, it's not worth somebody's life (except maybe yours)." I say BS to that. I think the message should be more like: DON'T ROB PEOPLE.

From what I hear people say about the video ( it stopped half-way for me) it sounds like it wasn't necessary that he pumped 5 more rounds into the criminal. But I think it's a little hard to judge someone in that spot. You know how much adrenaline is running thru you at that point? You are undoubtedly outside your mind. The verdict of first degree murder is the travesty here in my opinion. The man's getting life in prison. Life in prison with a bunch of animals. I did a clinical rotation in a maximum security prison...if that's the worst thing that pharmacist has ever done, he doesn't belong in there with those monkeys.

"The rat catcher's too hard on the rats..."- the important word in that sentence is rat, in my opinion.

Quote:
The coroner testified that the bullet fragment in the brain had rendered the robber dormant, likely to survive, but with issues.
Well that's just BS, you can't tell that without having a live specimen. The guy that said that ought to be ashamed of himself. There is no way you can evaluate that on a dead guy.

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The bell tolls for us all my friend, a little sooner for that armed robber. I'll not have my person or possessions molested if I can help it, and I'll not come the the aid of those who do so to my neighbors.
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Old July 12, 2011, 12:00 AM   #24
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As I've said, u can shoot them til they're down, but not til they're dead.
That's the problem I have with the law. Folks wanna talk about justice...if that prick had lived he should have swung at the gallows. The guy whose life was threatened carried out the sentence instead. The First degree murder just makes me sick. The end result, justly, was a dead guy. If it was willful and just with the first shot, maybe the next five really weren't so unjust.
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Old July 12, 2011, 12:09 AM   #25
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Well that's just BS, you can't tell that without having a live specimen. The guy that said that ought to be ashamed of himself. There is no way you can evaluate that on a dead guy.
I'm no doctor but I imagine that the science of medicine has advanced far enough that the field would be able to determine these types of things.
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