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Old July 8, 2011, 12:49 AM   #1
xr_aaron
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Long range with a 270 win questions???

So I am attempting my first rifle build and i want to do it with a 270 win. I know the bullet selection is limited but I am working with what I have. It is a rem 700 bdl. What barrel length and contour? Has anyone used a Mcgowen barrels? What hand loads should i go with? I can use any other advice anyone is willing to give. And yes i have good optics on it and shot other guns at long range the most was 1100 yards with a 300 win mag and now I am hooked!!!! Plaese help

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Old July 8, 2011, 01:56 AM   #2
Jim243
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aaron

Welcome to the forum. I am a 270 fan, but 1100 yards? Yes it is flat shooting and has more selections of bullets than you may think, my favorite is the Hornady 130 grain SST. But most rifle ranges here are 100 yards max. I can tell you it's great at that range, but longer, others will have to pipe in on that.

This is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a 270 and the 130 grain SST's.



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Old July 8, 2011, 02:12 AM   #3
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I'm no expert on rifles and shooting long ranges but I think that a .270 is an awesome round for hunting at ranges that are above average. I'm sure if you find the right load and bullet weight then 7-8 hundred is easy and 1000 is plausible. I'm no expert but I'm sure its possible. Besides, you wouldn't be asking if you didn't already have an idea of distance. Especially about a certain caliber. Check the net on ballistics and distance. There might be some viable info there. I hope I helped alteast a little bit. Good luck buddy.
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Old July 8, 2011, 04:00 AM   #4
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I am a fan of the .270 for hunting. I have taken a few deer with it up to 300yds and I am sure it will take deer at much longer ranges I just haven't tried it, but if that's rifle that you are building from and you are going to change the barrel anyway I beleve you could go with a different caliber because the bolt face is the same as many other cailbers. I am no expert and I am sure someone else will come along and give you some better advice.
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Old July 8, 2011, 04:50 AM   #5
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You know something about guns. Just check the ballistic charts. The .270 is a round that doesn't even need to exist. The 30-06 will do more and better than the .270 and hit it's mark with more energy at long ranges. When people buy a .270 they are buying a marketing myth. How often have you heard the phrase "flat shooting"? Hogwash, it is almost identical to the aught-6.
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Old July 8, 2011, 05:34 AM   #6
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My brother-in-law and I have been hunting together for many years. He builds rifles on the 700 platform and loves the .270. He pillar beds the stock, skim beds it and uses Douglas Air gauge barrels with a Remington Varmint contour. He loads the cartridge with Reloder 22 powder and a Nosler 130 grain Ballistic Tip.

His farthest whitetail deer so far is at 585 yards.
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Old July 8, 2011, 05:41 AM   #7
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The .270 is not a marketing myth, I knew why I was buying when I bought it, and I have a couple 30-06s as well. It is my sheep rifle, and last year I took a Dall ram at a lasered 584 yards using 130 grain SSTs. Show me a 30-06 load that puts out a .460 BC bullet at 3200 FPS.
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Old July 8, 2011, 06:18 AM   #8
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That marketing myth has been slaying game since its introduction. With the 130 grain bullet it was designed for, its tough to beat.
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Old July 8, 2011, 07:37 AM   #9
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I don't quite understand. You say you are working with what you have yet you are limiting yourself to looking for a .270 barrel. Do you realize that there are a whole bunch of calibers you could now change to since you are changing the barrel? Just because your Rem 700 started out as a .270 doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. You can choose pretty much any caliber you want that uses that same bolt face diameter.
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Old July 8, 2011, 08:03 AM   #10
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You are limiting yourself and at least you realize that, but I've killed game beyond 400 yards with the .270 on more than a few occasions so accuracy is there. So if you are building this rifle for a hunting/target platform I think you will be fine. If you are building it strictly for a long range target rifle I think there are better options for your action mainly the 6.5-284.

That said I think you should look at 140 grain Accubonds for hunting. Sierra makes a 135 grain bullet that will work for target shooting and Berger has some good bullets as well for target/hunting applications. I can't give you a handload because your rifle will be different and I don't shoot any of those bullets. I'm very happy with 130 grain Sierra and Hornady bullets in my .270 and H4831 .

I've got a McGowen barrel on a .243 Savage I built, and I'm hoping to take it out this weekend to try it out. I had to take the barrel to a gun smith to get him to thread it properly because McGowen didn't cut the threads deep enough when the made my barrel. Other than that one problem it appears to be a good barrel, but until I shoot it I really don't know.
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Old July 8, 2011, 10:30 AM   #11
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Marketing myth my dupas!!! The BC on the lighter wieght bullets of the 270 have much less recoil then the same 30 caliber BC and SD eqivalents because they have to weight much more.
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Old July 8, 2011, 10:55 AM   #12
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There is nothing wrong with the 270, even as a target round since Berger bullet now has target bullets for the 270.

Don't let the nah sayers presuade you. Someone mention check Ballistic tables. Find go a head and do it. Compare the 150 grn 308 to the 150 grn .277. You might get the '06 started faster but compair the two at 500 yards.

The .277, with the same bullet weight would be longer then the 30 cal, making it better as a long range round.

You want to build a 270 target rifle, do it, I don't think you'll be sorry.
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Old July 8, 2011, 11:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Welcome to the forum. I am a 270 fan, but 1100 yards? Yes it is flat shooting and has more selections of bullets than you may think, my favorite is the Hornady 130 grain SST. But most rifle ranges here are 100 yards max. I can tell you it's great at that range, but longer, others will have to pipe in on that.

This is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with a 270 and the 130 grain SST's.
The original poster did not state the purpose of his interest in long range shooting. Nevertheless, because he is talking about very long range (1000+ yards), I am going to assume that he is thinking target, not hunting.

Therefore, I hate to bust your bubble, but the target you posted is not outstanding for hunting accuracy...only adaquate. For an example of target accuracy, it would be a very poor example for long range shooting.
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Old July 8, 2011, 12:02 PM   #14
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Normally, I always thought a 24" barrel is the optimum length for '06 based cartridges. Most long range rifles usually wear a med. heavy to heavy bull barrel to give it weight and dampen vibration. How far are you planning on using the rifle? The 270 is a superb round and generally very accurate but I would think there are better choices it you are intending to shoot 1100 yds. But then again, there is a difference between punching paper and punching animals.

Hope this helps
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Old July 8, 2011, 02:54 PM   #15
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270 is a good round, but if I'm looking to shoot at those ranges and am going to rebarrel anyway, it wouldn't be in 270. If I were going to use the gun as is I'd find a way to make what I had work.
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Old July 8, 2011, 04:13 PM   #16
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Rifleman1776 is on the money when he talks about .270 ballistics. It's great for what it is designed for...under 300yrd shots on medium sized game. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the .270. But if you look at a ballistics table, you'll see 130 gr starts to drop at least 6" at 250yrds and falls off the table at 300yrds. Sure you can dial it in to make 600yrd shots. But what's it gonna do when it gets there? Are you lobbing it in from there? It's definately no longer "flat shooting" at that distance. Yea the .308 and .30-06 may do a better job at reaching those distances. But once again you have to look at the ballistics of those rounds.

Wish I had a table to post.

Am I off base on that fellas? Please educate me if I am.
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Old July 8, 2011, 04:51 PM   #17
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Well let's just start the gaggle of idiotic negatisms by saying that first of all Dahermite, that target that JIM243 posted is stellar hunting performance from a developed handload Period!!! yes its Stellar!! 100 yds 5 shots only three holes,,,, pull your hoody down and leave the bottle alone this weekend... Now second Rifleman 1776 There is more people than me or you can actually count that owns and loves the performance of this cartridge. So you can't rule it out as a fine hunting cartidge! I own one and completely enjoy its low recoil, flat trajectory, and dynamite accuracy. Having said that it's just not my pick for long range accuracy. I think a 7mm, .308, 6.5, .264,, something on this order would work best.
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Old July 8, 2011, 04:56 PM   #18
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If you have an action from a 270, build a 6.5-06. You can use your existing .270 cases (with trimming) and have a much better selection of bullets available for you stated uses.

You can also make cases from .25-06 by simply necking up.
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Old July 8, 2011, 05:15 PM   #19
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Am I off base on that fellas? Please educate me if I am.
You are a little off base, it is all about preference pretty much. First off you have to take two similar bullets to compare so let us look at the Nosler Partitions. The .277 150 grain bullet and .308 180 grain bullet have similar BC and SD. Going to Federal's web site you can compare ballistics of the loaded ammunition.

.270 Win 150 grain Nosler Partition
MV: 2830 fps
ME: 2667 ft-lbs
Velocity @ 500 yards: 1928 fps
Energy @ 500 yards: 1238 ft-lbs
Wind drift @ 500 yards: 19.7"
200 yard zero drop @ 500 yards: -44.1"

.30-06 Spring 180 grain Nosler Partition
MV: 2700 fps
ME: 1913 ft-lbs
Velocity @ 500 yards: 1873 fps
Energy @ 500 yards: 1348 ft-lbs
Wind drift @ 500 yards: 20.7"
200 yard zero drop @ 500 yards: -48.7"

So out at 500 yards the only thing the .30-06 wins with is a larger diameter bullet and 110 ft-lbs of energy. The .270 Win will get there with a little less compensation for distance and wind. So it is a trade off between what you want. 130 grain Partition bullets get you there with less windage and elevation correction yet and only give up 170 ft-lbs of energy to the .30-06.

.270 Win 130 grain Nosler Partition
MV: 3060 fps
ME: 2703 ft-lbs
Velocity @ 500 yards: 2012 fps
Energy @ 500 yards: 1168 ft-lbs
Wind drift @ 500 yards: 20.2"
200 yard zero drop @ 500 yards: -38.8"

Quote:
You know something about guns. Just check the ballistic charts. The .270 is a round that doesn't even need to exist. The 30-06 will do more and better than the .270 and hit it's mark with more energy at long ranges.
So on paper I'm waiting to see what the .30-06 does better, I'll give you energy but only slightly better than what the .270 delivers. The .270 has nearly the same energy as the .30-06 but does it with less felt recoil. I personally know it works well on elk, deer, pronghorn, pigs, coyotes, and prairie dogs, the 06 I've only taken elk and bear with. Plus comments like this one usually come from people who haven't used or used very little the .270 Win. Besides if it didn't need to exist you could say that about any other cartridge that has been released in the last 100+ years.

Quote:
If you have an action from a 270, build a 6.5-06.
6.5-284 works better with the 6.5 bullets and you can buy properly head stamped brass. With the long action you can use the longest 6.5 bullets in the magazine without fear of eating powder capacity.
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Old July 8, 2011, 08:25 PM   #20
xr_aaron
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Thanks everyone!!! This will not be my 1100 yard gun, it is just my project gun for now. I love the 270 round. i want to see what I can do with it then go from there. One reason why I want to stay with the 270 is to prove some people wrong but that is just me. This rifle will be mainly target with some hunting but not at far distances. I am a firm believer in taking a closer shot where you know for sure that it will be an ethical kill.
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Old July 8, 2011, 08:49 PM   #21
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Welcome to the asylum, Aaron.
If I hadn't gotten into .30-06 so early in the game I'd probably have changed my name to Jack O'Connor years ago. I can't justify a .270 when I have two good .30-06's (and all the loading acoutrements) but I'll always wish I had one or maybe a dozen. Just because the .30-06 does everyhing I need it to do doesn't mean the .270 can't do it a little bit better.
My question is why are you re-barreling? Is there a problem with the barrel now on the rifle or is this a project that starts with a barreled action?
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
You are a little off base, it is all about prefrence pretty much. First off you have to take two similar bullets to compare so let us look at the Nosler Partitions. The .277 150 grain bullet and .308 180 grain bullet have similar BC and SD. Going to Federal's web site you can compare ballistics of the loaded ammunition.
Why would you compare similar bullets? You want to compare the best bullet for each option.

For starters, ignore drop numbers, for a long range target gun they are meaningless. If you know the target is 1000 yards away, as long as you know the drop and your sights can get you on paper, it doesn't matter if the drop is 100", 300", or 400". All that matters is wind.


If you are shooting long range, you aren't using factory ammo, and if you are shooting 30-06 you aren't shooting 180gr bullets. You are shooting match bullets, over 200 grains.

A .308 220gr SMK @ 2500 FPS drifts 17.1" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.
A .308 200gr SMK @ 2600 FPS drifts 18.2" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.
A .308 210gr Berger VLD @ 2500 FPS drifts 16.8" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.

On paper the .270 is about the same, depending on bullet.

A .277 150 gr Berger VLD @ 2900 FPS drifts 16.1 @ 500 in a 10 MPH full value wind.
A .277 135gr SMK @ 3000 FPS drifts 17.7" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.

From what I can see, Berger makes the only decent heavy match bullets in .277, Sierra only goes up to 135 gr, which is still pretty good. I don't see any other match quality bullets in .277.

With the .308 you can get good match bullets from just about everyone, and they are about $10/box cheaper than the the heavy Bergers.

For comparison, the 6.5-06 or 6.5-284:

.264 140gr AMAX @ 2950 drifts 15.6" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.
.264 142gr SMK @ 2950 drifts 14.6" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.
.264 139gr Scenar @ 2950 drifts 14.7" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.
.264 140gr Berger VLD @ 2950 drifts 13.4" @ 500 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind.

And while not as available as .308, there are a lot of choices in quality match bullets, and the worst of the 6.5mm ~140gr bullets is better than the best 270 or 30-06, with equal or less recoil.

Quote:
6.5-284 works better with the 6.5 bullets and you can buy properly headstamped brass. With the long action you can use the longest 6.5 bullets in the magazine without fear of eating powder capacity.
For what it's worth, my Hornady manual shows 2-300 FPS higher for the 6.5-06 over the 6.5-284 with the same weight bullet. For the Hodgdon load data they are about equal. As to the headstamp, I really don't care, and .25-06 brass is about half the price of 6.5-284 brass.

That being said, in some cases you get what you pay for, and Lapua brass is the best I have ever seen. They make 6.5-284 brass, but the only option for them for the 6.5-06 is to start with 30-06, and that needs more prep than just a neck size.
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:39 PM   #23
xr_aaron
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It is just a sport barrel on it right now and i want to go with something more heavy and a little longer. I like the 6.5 284 but for now I want to stick with the 270. Although I was looking at a savage last week that was one and itwas tempting.
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Old July 9, 2011, 12:58 AM   #24
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Why would you compare similar bullets? You want to compare the best bullet for each option.
Because the resources that I used anyone could look up easily and it was KISS. I could have done exactly what you did but that would haver required more references and time. If I was smart I would have just taken a screen shot and posted it as it would have saved me even more time.

If you know the wind value you can drop that as well from my post and yours, because that can be compensated for at the known target range is well. Then it all boils down to who is the better shot and has the more precise rifle.

I guess my main reason for 6.5-284 is that it isn't a wild cat. Besides properly head stamped match grade brass being available. Reloading dies, even the competition ones are going to be cheaper since it isn't a wild cat anymore. Plus you have the option of buying factory ammunition although it will be quite expensive, it will still be cheaper than custom 6.5-06 cartridges.
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Old July 9, 2011, 01:08 AM   #25
kenno
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What?

I use the 270win
It is completley unsuited to 1000 yard shooting, the pre-WW2 8mm Mauser round is far better round at that range and IT is obsolete now.
It's your money and it is still (briefly) a free country.
Personaly I' be working on a round that would shoot 3 miles
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