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Old July 4, 2011, 10:01 PM   #1
cbuck
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FL to NC

I have an uncle that lives in florida and has offered to give me his last non glock handgun that he has. I live in north carolina and have my ccw here. my question is what is the easiest way to transfer the ownership of this handgun legally from him to me. ill be going down there in a couple of weeks so it would be great if we could just do a FTF transfer with a simple bill of sale or something but my biggest question is how to do this without any unwanted legal repercussions. any help is appreciated
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Old July 4, 2011, 10:10 PM   #2
Mal H
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You can't do a FTF in FL if you aren't a resident. I don't see how you can get around him having to ship it to an FFL in NC for you to pick up there after doing all the paperwork.
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Old July 4, 2011, 10:20 PM   #3
baddarryl
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Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office. No need to actually register guns in NC and since you have a CCW permit, no need to get a purchase permit from your county either. Bill of Sale would suffice.
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Old July 4, 2011, 10:34 PM   #4
saands
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It is surprising to me how many people in the firearms industry (including FFL's) do NOT know the rules. Many think that no matter where you live, you can always gift a firearm to a relative ... this is NOT the case. Mal H has it correct. As far as I know, there are ONLY two ways that a resident of one state can take possession of a handgun from in another state:

1) The recipient is an FFL of a type appropriate for the arm in question (03 if it is C&R, 01 otherwise)
2) The firearm was bequeathed to the recipient and the original owner has passed away.

Within your own state of residence, the rules of your state apply, but between states, your own state's rules only make it more difficult, never any easier. Sorry if this isn't the news you wanted to hear.

For the record:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, ... to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce;...

...shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State...
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Old July 4, 2011, 10:58 PM   #5
Sevens
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Any FFL can simply use the post office to ship a handgun. But only FFL's can use the post office. Your uncle needs to take the handgun to an FFL who will agree to ship it for a fee -- and he needs to ship it to an FFL on your end who has agreed to accept it and transfer it to you. This will cost a fee as well.

There's only ONE more round-about way I can think of that is still legal.

Uncle GIVES the handgun to some Florida resident.
That resident elects to move to NC, taking the handgun with him.
He gives it to you.

Of course, that doesn't consider NC laws (I'm not familiar with them) That would be 100% legal where I live.
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Old July 4, 2011, 11:12 PM   #6
cbuck
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thanks for he thelp guys, i was figuring me just driving down to pick it up would be too easy, guess we will both be talking to our local ffl dealers this week
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Old July 4, 2011, 11:30 PM   #7
Mal H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddarryl
my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office.
If you are quoting him accurately, then your CCW instructor has suggested a good way to commit a felony.
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Old July 4, 2011, 11:42 PM   #8
JohnKSa
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Absolutely correct. There is one major component of every gun that is actually the gun for legal purposes. It's typically the part of the gun that has the serial number on it and is called the receiver.

You can take all the parts off the receiver and transfer them any way you choose, but the receiver is a firearm for legal purposes and it must be transferred via the methods prescribed by federal law even if it has no parts assembled to it.

There is no legal way to skirt the requirement for involving an FFL in an interstate firearms transfer between two living persons.
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Old July 4, 2011, 11:52 PM   #9
dogtown tom
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Quote:
baddarryl Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office....
Felony.
A firearm frame is still a firearm. Doesn't matter if it's assembled or disassembled.
ONLY licensed dealers and manufacturers can ship firearms other than rifles or shotguns through the USPS. Mere mortals can mail ony rifles and shotguns.

Quote:
Sevens Any FFL can simply use the post office to ship a handgun. But only FFL's can use the post office....
Close.
USPS regulations do not use the term "FFL", only referring to "licensed dealer" & "licensed manufacturer". This excludes an 03FFL (Collector of curios & relics) from mailing or receiving by mail anything other than an eligible rifle or shotgun.

Quote:
Sevens There's only ONE more round-about way I can think of that is still legal.
Uncle GIVES the handgun to some Florida resident.
That resident elects to move to NC, taking the handgun with him.
He gives it to you.
Of course, that doesn't consider NC laws (I'm not familiar with them) That would be 100% legal where I live.
Uh, no. That would be an interstate transfer of a firearm. As the firearm was never actually intended to be the possession of the person moving.
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Old July 5, 2011, 12:35 AM   #10
MLeake
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What I don't get, is the lengths some people would theoretically go to in order to avoid a $30-$60 dollar transaction fee and $20-$40 shipping fee.... at risk of committing a felony.

Check out gunbroker.com, for its FFL search function. You can find FFLs who will conduct transfers at both ends of the shipment, with their fees and contact info.

Typical FFL transfer fees run $15-$30. Assuming an FFL at both ends, $30-$60. FFL (dealers) can ship using USPS; combining his transfer fee with his shipping fee (service he provides for an additonal charge, with an outbound transfer) costs the same as or less than shipping to an FFL via FedEx, and saves me the drive to the airport location.

So, it's not that expensive, and is often easier than arranging some other theoretical shipment method.
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Old July 5, 2011, 06:15 AM   #11
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddarryl
Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office. No need to actually register guns in NC and since you have a CCW permit, no need to get a purchase permit from your county either. Bill of Sale would suffice.
That would be a Federal felony. The frame is a firearm. Handguns in interstate transfers MUST be transferred through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence.

Also, since the frame is a firearm, it is illegal for anyone other than an FFL to send a handgun frame through the mail. Now you're up to TWO Federal felonies.
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Old July 5, 2011, 09:18 AM   #12
baddarryl
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Ok boys. As I said VERIFY this. The CCW instructor that told me this only back in March had impressive credentials. Former police chief, FBI firearms instructor etc. It is very possible I misunderstood what he said and therefore I did advise to verify this. I do know in NC the OP's CCW license gets him around having to get a permit for it. Normally in NC to get a pistol transferred to you from an FFL you have to get a purchase permit. I had to do this once to obtain a gun I already owned that had been stolen from me! Sorry for the bad info guys. That's why we should verify everything on the net.

Is it still true that if the OP can just drive to Fla do an official bill of sale (or proper paperwork) and then just bring it back without going through the FFL system? As I said, you still don't have to "register" a firearm in NC so this seems logical to me.
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Is it still true that if the OP can just drive to Fla do an official bill of sale (or proper paperwork) and then just bring it back without going through the FFL system?
No. Go re-read the law. INTERSTATE SALES OF HANDGUNS MUST GO THROUGH AN FFL IN THE PURCHASER'S STATE OF RESIDENCE.
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:46 AM   #14
baddarryl
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Ok, thanks Doyle.
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Old July 7, 2011, 07:34 AM   #15
blume357
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Why could not the Original Poster do this>...

first find an FFL in N.C. that would agree to this:

Find out what that N.C. FFL will need along with the pistol to do a transfer, such as letter with copy of uncle's FL drivers License and signature in blue or red (what my FFL requires)... and of course cost to do a transfer. Many FFLs will accept and transfer a gun that is shipped by a private seller, some won't, mine in S.C. will)

So, once you find an FFL who will accept a gun from a private individual... why could not the original poster also be the shipper? Saving a goodly amount of money by just transporting the pistol back to N.C. and then to the FFl who will do the transfer?

I'm sure there is some kind of rule about why you can't do this, but I can't find it. No different than if the Uncle drove up from Florida and they did the transfer with both of them at a N.C. FFL.
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Old July 7, 2011, 12:20 PM   #16
dogtown tom
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Quote:
blume357 So, once you find an FFL who will accept a gun from a private individual... why could not the original poster also be the shipper? Saving a goodly amount of money by just transporting the pistol back to N.C. and then to the FFl who will do the transfer?
Because the OP is not a resident of Florida. If he takes possession....even to ship, he commits a Federal crime. His uncle, or another Florida resident would need to do the actual shipping.

Quote:
I'm sure there is some kind of rule about why you can't do this, but I can't find it.
ATF.gov has all the pertinent Federal laws relating to firearms.
The ATF Firearms FAQ has answers to common questions. Here's the one specifically for nonlicensees: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Quote:
No different than if the Uncle drove up from Florida and they did the transfer with both of them at a N.C. FFL.
No, it's completely different......if the Uncle drives to NC to do the transfer through a NC licensed dealer there is no illegal transfer of a firearm.
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Old July 7, 2011, 12:45 PM   #17
oneounceload
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could not the uncle always drive up to NC with his gun, and go to the local FFL with his nephew and conclude the transfer there?
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Old July 7, 2011, 07:21 PM   #18
dogtown tom
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Quote:
oneounceload could not the uncle always drive up to NC with his gun, and go to the local FFL with his nephew and conclude the transfer there?
Yep.....again.
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