The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 30, 2011, 06:45 AM   #1
BfloBill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2010
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
Posts: 443
Double for home defense?

Does anybody out there use a double for home defense?
My wife is small and not a firearms enthusiast, but would be more than willing to do what is needed to protect home and family. I was thinking that a short barreled double would be lighter and easier to operate than a fully loaded pump/auto for her.
With the layout of my house (relatively small w/narrow hallway) a determined attacker would probably be on top of you before you could get off more than 2 shots anyway (assuming worst case scenario of somehow missing twice with a shotgun in a narrow hallway!)

Comments?

Ideas?
BfloBill is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 07:18 AM   #2
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,995
After the second shot -- then what????
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 07:20 AM   #3
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 7,213
A double should work very well. You don't need a 8 shot 12 ga. to defend against burglars.
After 2 shots? Reload if necessary.
__________________
Bill DeShivs
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 07:23 AM   #4
Manos de Piedra
Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Posts: 31
I have a coach gun for just such a purpose (also for rabbit hunting). For HD, there are a lot of options, and gun guys (like me) have and always will think this this issue to death plus 15 minutes. My coach gun is my go to, until, after a few months the "more available rounds" thing creeps into my head and the mossberg 590 comes out. That of course is for a few months when "quick follow up" thing begins to creep into my head.

The double is fine, as long as your comfortable with it.
Manos de Piedra is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:11 AM   #5
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Just remember, a lighter gun will have more actual recoil and typically more felt recoil, so train with target loads as she is learning how to operate it.

Also, you and her need to read Thecorneredcat.com, written by a woman for men and women
oneounceload is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:29 AM   #6
microman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2011
Posts: 428
Something like the Stoeger Double Defense
coach shotgun??

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...le_defense.php
microman is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:46 AM   #7
mavracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 3,088
Quote:
After the second shot -- then what????
Mr Groin meet Mr Buttstock
Quote:
(assuming worst case scenario of somehow missing twice with a shotgun in a narrow hallway!)
Don't get lulled into the "It's a shotgun you don't even need to aim" mentality. At HD range the pattern is only going to be a few incches wide. Some practice is prudent. A 20g with 3 buck is nothing to sneezze at either.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."

Last edited by mavracer; June 30, 2011 at 08:58 AM.
mavracer is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 09:29 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,320
"Mr Groin meet Mr Buttstock"



The biggest problem in using a double for home defense?

Not being able to rack the action, which causes every burglar in a 500 meter radius to lose his bowels and flee in abject terror.

Or so I've been told.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 09:36 AM   #9
rdf.hack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 2011
Posts: 173
Well if its a SxS, you can always go Army of Darkness on them : Hold it above your head and say "This is mah Boomstick!" and then they will flee in terror.
rdf.hack is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 10:03 AM   #10
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,320
"Well if its a SxS, you can always go Army of Darkness on them : Hold it above your head and say "This is mah Boomstick!" and then they will flee in terror."


OOOOOOOhhhhhhh!

New home defense tactic to be adopted!

Now where's my chainsaw?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 10:56 AM   #11
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,487
You can get short barreled light weight auto shotguns such as some of the Benellis.Make sure the gun fits her especially LOP.

A psychopath high on drugs may not hear the racking sound or if he does he may not care !
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 11:15 AM   #12
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,839
Considering that double barrel shotguns have been used for home (and outside the home) defense since they were invented, I don't see any issues with using one.

Remember that unlike TV and movies, civilians should NOT be in the habit of providing their own cover fire. Generally speaking, in a home defense situation, one does not shoot "to keep their heads down". One shoots only in "gravest extreme". Get a butt cuff if you think you need extra ammo onboard the gun.

I have a chinese made coach gun that serves as my home defense long arm, and do not feel undergunned. Just make sure your lady understands the gun, and gets a little practice.

My mother was a small woman (4'11, 108lbs, size 3.5 ring) but she could shoot her daddy's Ithaca 12ga SxS. It wasn't her preferred gun, she liked her .22 Ruger Bearcat better, but she was comfortable and confident with that double barrel. Her shooting "style" for it was from the hip. As she put it, "just hold on tight and let it swing". The gun was just too big for her to shoulder and use it the regular way, but she could manage it that way. And she was accurate enough at short range, which was all that was intended, anyway.

Another thing about a double barrel, if you do wind up in court, a jury is more likely to consider it a defensive weapon than a pistol grip/folding stock short barrel pump gun, with ammo carrier and barrel heat shield bolted on it. A gun like that makes it look like you were seeking combat, to those who are under educated about firearms (which is going to be every one on a jury, if the prosecutor can manage it). A small woman defending her babies with a squirrel gun or duck gun is a lot less likely to be thought a "Rambo" type who just wanted to shoot someone!

Just make sure she understands that shotguns are not magic "can't miss" firearms. The old saying "can't miss with a shotgun" has probably gotten more people hurt or killed than anything else except "don't worry, it's not loaded!"


Quote:
Also, you and her need to read Thecorneredcat.com, written by a woman for men and women
And I fully agree!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 12:14 PM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,848
If you do get one, make sure the users gets a fair amout of practice.

If you do reload, folks forget (like me) about the safety coming back on with some guns.

I agree with reading Pax's site and the shotgun will be just fine for most uses but it should be a considered choice as compared to the superweapon view of a shotgun.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 02:12 PM   #14
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Col Jeff Cooper knew something about the principles of personal defence and weaponry.

A double barreled shotgun of the sort known as a Lupara formed part of his homeowner's insurance plan.

In trained hands, a double is a formidable weapon. As with all weapons, the key is training, training,training....
Dave McC is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 02:18 PM   #15
TylerD45ACP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2010
Posts: 1,654
Very true but I think a pump action is a better idea. The pump usually holds at least 3 more shells and just pump it, it will never fail unless something goes seriously wrong.
TylerD45ACP is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 02:20 PM   #16
Yung.gunr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2010
Location: Phoenix area
Posts: 1,386
+1 for the Stoeger double barrel

I got a Stoeger Condor youth for my wife. She loves it. She is real small so we got her one chambered in .410. With all the ammo being made for the Judge there are some real good HD loads for it. I got a cuff for the stock that was intended for rifle ammo and it holds the .410s perfect. I would definitely suggest getting a setup like this. I think she is not as intimidated by it since it is not a semi auto or the action to cycle.
Yung.gunr is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 04:30 PM   #17
hardworker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2010
Posts: 820
My biggest concern would be the kick. Doubles kick like a mule.
hardworker is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 06:58 PM   #18
Gehrhard
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2009
Location: East of the Missississippippi
Posts: 675
I generally recommend 20 guages for women. SxS's are probably quite addequate for almost all scenarios, simple, short, cool and effective. Even if they weren't they'd still be better than nothing.

A 20 ga. pump w/a short stock may be more useful for the Mrs. too. The problems are bigger-framed, heftier, longer, guns have front-heavy LEVERAGE and her shorter-than-the-average-man's arms reaching way out to control the gun and the little hands on big furniture doesn't help. Test 'em out, and then, as stated, make sure she shoots with you enough to make operating it second nature. Try lite sport loads, work up to full ones, and then buy two boxes of #4 Buck -- one to test and the other for the house.

Last edited by Gehrhard; June 30, 2011 at 07:04 PM.
Gehrhard is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 07:31 PM   #19
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Quote:
My biggest concern would be the kick. Doubles kick like a mule.
Not if they FIT or weigh what a BB gun weighs, and you leave the 3 or 3-1/2 uber loads home
oneounceload is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 07:57 PM   #20
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: IN
Posts: 1,813
Quote:
BfloBill
Double for home defense?
I would not recommend it. Two shots is little insurance.

I also personally don't like shotguns for HD unless the person is barricaded in a room with their back against the wall.

Also, I just noticed that you said your house has narrow hallways... Not an ideal situation for a shotgun. Now before everyone starts getting all huffy, let me say that a shotgun does have its place in HD, just not usually inside a house with corners and narrow hallways in the hands of a novice.
__________________
"You haven't lived until you've died." - various

Last edited by Onward Allusion; June 30, 2011 at 08:03 PM.
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:02 PM   #21
TheKlawMan
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
I shot, today, with a guy that had a different ou. It was a Maverick with short barrels, a synthetic stock, a front rifle type sight and a picattiny type rail on the receiver that had a wedge in it for a rear sight. He added a stick on flexible comb pad. I didin't watch how he was doing and he admitted he didn't know where he was shooting with it. He also had a single shot Harrison and Richardson 12 gauge and I believe a BR-99. Anyway that ou is marketed for home defense.
TheKlawMan is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:08 PM   #22
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Tyler, my HD shotguns are well used 870s. But like the 1911( another familiar platform to me) I recognise that expertise with a pump requires a bit or bunch more training because of the more complicated MOA.

Compare a GM to a Model 13 S&W, For someone who knows the 1911, that may be the better choice. For Jane or Joe Average, the simple DA revolver is way easier to learn without having to run a few thousand rounds through it.

Doubles are easier to learn, the downside, just two shots.

However, often two is enough.

HD shotguns are not one size or style fits all. An arthritic senior may be better served with a simple to operate break action 410 than a customized Saiga 12 with belt feed and lazer.
Dave McC is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:12 PM   #23
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
Quote:
A double should work very well. You don't need a 8 shot 12 ga. to defend against burglars.
After 2 shots? Reload if necessary.
Sorry to disagree, William, but neither you nor I nor a home owner knows how many shots will be necessary in a violent home invasion robbery.

If you have to reload, it means you didn't get the job done with the two shots you'd be limited to. Trying to reload while standing there in your shorts (if that) when things are happening fast could be problematic.

Even with a side saddle on the double. I'd rather carry my spare rounds in the magazine. And yes, a double would be much better than nothing an would handle some situations just fine.

Last edited by Nnobby45; June 30, 2011 at 08:31 PM.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 08:51 PM   #24
BfloBill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2010
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
Posts: 443
Thanks for all your input.
44AMP- I definitely intended to get a butt cuff and train on reloading.
Gerhard- I did not rule out getting a 20 ga., I know most like a 12 for home defense, but what gave me this idea was trying out my Ruger Red Label with #3 Buck for coyotes. (Don't worry I'm not going to butcher my O/U!)

There is a gun show coming to my area in Aug. that should give me enough time to mull over the options and squirrel away some cash.

Keep the ideas coming.
BfloBill is offline  
Old June 30, 2011, 10:32 PM   #25
Doc TH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2005
Posts: 512
A double should be fine for your purposes.
Doc TH is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13492 seconds with 7 queries