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Old June 29, 2011, 06:11 AM   #1
Slugo
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final thoughts on the new multi-role target shotguns...

specifically those now produced by Krieghoff, Blaser, Zoli and Caesar Guerini.

I handled a new CG Summit Impact this weekend and quite frankly, wasn't impressed. Way too many adjustments and sliding gizmos. I would be fiddling with the gun constantly, trying to find that 'just right' combination. I'm much happier and more comfortable with a proper fitting, high quality, standard 30" O/U sporter, my preferred do-all gun.

Quite frankly, I believe the new uber hybrid guns to be a passing fad, sort of like the Briley spreader choke! Glad I didn't spend the $6K on the Blaser SuperSport. I'll stick with my tried and true Brownings, thank you...
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Old June 29, 2011, 06:34 AM   #2
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here's a PDF file. Take about 10-15 seconds to download. Talk about an erector set!!
http://www.gueriniusa.com/gun_models...mit_Impact.pdf
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Old June 29, 2011, 06:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
I handled a new CG Summit Impact this weekend and quite frankly, wasn't impressed. Way too many adjustments and sliding gizmos. I would be fiddling with the gun constantly, trying to find that 'just right' combination.
So what you are saying is that the reason why you aren't impressed with the new guns, their problem, is you.

Quote:
I'm much happier and more comfortable with a proper fitting, high quality, standard 30" O/U sporter, my preferred do-all gun.
The nice thing about the new guns is that they can be made properly fitting to each customer's ideals, are of higher quality, and certainly can be 30" and O/U, so you should be happy with one of the new guns.

Quote:
Quite frankly, I believe the new uber hybrid guns to be a passing fad
So you don't like new things on guns either.

There are a lot of
Quote:
passing fads
in the area of personalized gun adjustability. In some areas, they are decades into their "fad" lives.
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Old June 29, 2011, 06:49 AM   #4
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jeez, didn't think I'd have to answer to a military tribunal!

My observations and my thoughts. OK...
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Old June 29, 2011, 09:00 AM   #5
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I have seen the trend on some guns to go back towards a configuration sporting guns similar to those on trap guns - high ribs Monte Carlo or similar stocks (much like BigJim's skeet Brownings he likes so much)

Whether it is truly beneficial, like Muller chokes, is subjective; however, if the shooter BELIEVED it gives him that extra 1-3 birds to win bis class, then he will buy it.

I put Blaser and Zoli in that category above B&B but below P&K&K - well made, nice weight balancing features, etc. Worth about 6-8K? Not when I can get a slightly used P gun for that
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Old June 29, 2011, 09:47 AM   #6
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There an old adage: Jack of all trades, master of none.
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Old June 29, 2011, 11:35 AM   #7
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I'm a big Browning fan ...and have a whole safe full of Browning O/U's ... XS Skeet models ( 5) , XT Traps (2) , Citori Lightning's (4) , and a BT-100....so I'm biased toward Browning for sure...( because they fit me / and I think the fit and finish is at least above average / for the money you get a lot of gun).

I'm not overly impressed by Caesar Guerini's or Zoli ....and I've shot a few ...but this new generation of guns like Blaser / with a lot of built in adjustability I think is a trend that will continue and last a long time. In the old days - 1950's thru the 1980's or so - there wasn't much adjustability in shotguns ...so we all had different guns for different species of birds, different games.

But I really like the idea of the built in adjustabilty of some of these guns like the Blaser. Once you get them setup - I don't think you'll fuss with them too much / and if you do - its done at the pattern board ...adjusting point of impact primarily ..and balance. I think, in this tight money market, it also helps justify buying a gun that you can use for more than one game or pastime.

I subscribe to the concept that -- there are 3 uses - that really lend themselves to one gun spec ( a Skeet gun, a Sporting Clays gun, an upland bird gun ) ...and whichever one of those pastimes you choose ---that one gun setup will do all 3 things equally well. This is especially true where in Sporting and Skeet you can pre-mount a gun vs other games where low guns are common ( and there are some guys shooting low gun in sporting too ) ... but for most of us / one gun or one gun configuration will do all 3 things very very well. For me - that is an O/U, 30" barrels - at around 8.5 lbs ... ( and I set up my XS Skeet models that way -in 12ga and even in 20ga, 28ga and the .410 / and I have stand alone guns - not tube inserts ) ...but to me, that's optimum.

Trap - I think is a totally different game .../ and continental Trap is different from singles ...and doubles ...etc ...and personally, I go to a heavier and longer gun for Trap ( 10 lb and 32" barrels ) in an O/U primarily.

I like the adjustabilty concept .../ but I'm not giving up any of my Brownings either ...
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Old June 29, 2011, 01:36 PM   #8
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There an old adage: Jack of all trades, master of none.
Yep - they call them pumps; except I think the statement is modified to read: Jack HANDLE of all trades, Master of none..............
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Old June 29, 2011, 02:12 PM   #9
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and ported barrels ...you need ported barrels ....!!!

( its just noise / like fingernails on a chalkboard to my buddy OneOunce ...) he hates ported barrels ....

My buddy that just bought a new Browning BPS Trap 12ga, 30" barrel ..( just something to fuss with ...and have some fun for "pump gun challenge days" ....he has a serious Trap gun ..a krieghoff KX-5 34" ).....but he is sending the stock to Jack West ...to be modified and fitted with an adj comb.../ and he's sending the barrel down to Briley to be ported ....today !! He just got the gun on Monday ....he shot it yesterday ....and today its been cleaned and taken apart ...and parts are enroute to Briley and Mr West ....in the air as we speak !!

It'll be a great gun / when it comes back ...darn near perfect ... !! porting and all ...
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Old June 29, 2011, 02:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Jack of all trades master of none
OR

Quote:
Jack HANDLE of all trades, Master of none....
Both seem to fit my, "final thoughts on multi- role....".

Also, wished I didn't feel that way cause I could surely thin the shotgun herd down a bit.
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Old June 29, 2011, 03:02 PM   #11
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Shortwave - the thing is this - if someone can only afford one gun to do a variety of things in a somewhat decent manner, than a pump, with its low cost, is what will work for them. IF, however, someone is wanting to do particularly well in a certain arena, like trap shooting, upland bird hunting, etc., then there are better alternatives that will do a better job.

For some folks, that means getting the best task=specific gun on the market
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Old June 29, 2011, 03:04 PM   #12
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I shoot all of the clay games with one O/U with 32" barrels.

My Skeet scores reek.

I do OK at Trap.

I do well at SC.

I do great at Wobble.

Were I seriously chasing HOF status in any of the above, perhaps I'd then have a dedicated shotgun for that game.

Meanwhile, I bust a lot of birds with what I brung.....
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Old June 29, 2011, 03:20 PM   #13
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Dave, I'm with you. I basically use two Browning 12ga/30" target guns. One with a flat rib, the other a high-post. They're good for all three games, generally. I did recently acquire a 12ga/28" Citori skeet gun, that I do well with at skeet, but only average on sporting clays. Lacks a smooth swing on long shots. I use the high-post Lightning with a mod choke for trap. Three older Brownings and all bases covered...
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Old June 29, 2011, 03:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
For some folks, that means getting the best task=specific gun on the market
Agree,

There was a time(13-21yrs old or so) I used a 12ga., mod. choke, S&W pump for everythig from rabbit,bird, trap and skeet. It's the only thing I had. Then came the Rem.1100 and I soon learned that although I could shoot trap/skeet better with it, it was fairly heavy to lug affield all day.
There have been shotguns bought since for certain things which in turn,created the small modest collection today. Nothing comparing to some of the beautiful, 'high-end' shotguns I've seen some having here on TFL.
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Old June 29, 2011, 08:35 PM   #15
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My modest collection of shotguns includes only the one target gun, though all of them besides the HD tools have been used on clays.

Badly,in a couple cases.

The qualities that make a good quail/grouse/woodcock gun stop it from shining as a claycrusher.

They are fun though, and I often will exercise one just for the halibut,as the fishermen say.

Still, I shoot best with the Beretta.....
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Old June 29, 2011, 09:21 PM   #16
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For me, it isn't the gun I use, since I have no "bespoke" guns; but rather WHO I am shooting with. Normally, my highest sporting scores are with my Gti; however, I can (and have_ shot better with my S&W SXS when I shot with the M class folks - something about rising to the level of the folks you are with
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Old June 30, 2011, 06:00 AM   #17
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Its marketing designed to snare those with new gun fever or looking for "the gun" to cure all their ills.
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Old June 30, 2011, 08:10 AM   #18
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I absolutely agree with your assessment. Marketing usually rules the product line...
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Old June 30, 2011, 08:29 AM   #19
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It's more than just marketing. It's a means of getting the gun to fit the shooter. If you look at a "try gun," a special gun with adjustable stocks used to measure a shooter for custom wood, you'll find they look very much like the adjustable stocks of today. Gun fit is important so you can either shape the wood to fit or get an adjustable that you can set up to fit you.

Most of the major makers have done it to a greater or lesser extent for decades, Browning being one of the earlier ones with their Plus series of o/u and single barrel trap guns.

I was at a shoot recently where I played various guns. The adjustables never have done much for me. The only gun I wanted to to take home was the Blaser F3 Sporting with a standard stock. All it needed was about a 1/4" taken off the comb.

Last edited by PJR; June 30, 2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old June 30, 2011, 01:49 PM   #20
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Marketing does play a part, but like PJR says, it's fit,fit,fit that's the big reason.

The adjustable whatevers can get us more into the gun, a good thing, but they will not substitute for good form and techniques.

And the temptation to mess with the settings when we hit a slump is well nigh irresistible.

Best to get it right and toss the Allen keys.

I do know folks who can add/subtract the right number of spacers to take their singles trap gun to the 26 yard line, but it's a much smaller number than those who have adjustable combs.

Best fit for an individual is also going to vary by game. Trap guns are made to impact higher than Skeet or SC guns, and a field gun oft is best with a 50/50 POI.
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Old June 30, 2011, 03:11 PM   #21
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My program ( when I think the gun needs to be adjusted ) ....and I'm back on my diet this summer and losing 40 lbs ( 25 lbs down / 15 more to go ) ...and part of it is in my face ( chubby cheeks ) ....but I resist doing anything to my guns ...until I take them to the pattern board and tested the Point of Impact.

If the pattern board ...POI ....tells me there a change is needed - then I adjust for it to dial it back in. If its hitting where I look ....then I leave it alone.

I had my Citori XS Skeet model .410 O/U out there last week .../ and ended up leaving it alone !! The pattern board will not lie to you !!
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Old June 30, 2011, 06:59 PM   #22
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I don't believe there is a do all shotgun, but a reciever with many barrels and an adjustible stock For my Benelli, I have the option of a steel reciever or M2 aluminum reciever, XP or reduced power trigger units, high rib or flat rib barrel (the flat legacy barrel is killer for skeet, the high Cordoba barrel is great for Sporting clays), a briley wieght or a regular benelli endcap, a huge range of stock adjustments and even comb adjustments with the CF stock, and I can choose pretty wood or the durable cormfortech stock for the rainy days. I do love my Benelli.
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