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Old June 24, 2011, 06:05 AM   #1
youngunz4life
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Serious question/home invasion

I was reading some threads recently, and one of them jogged a fear of mine:

for the sake of discussion, your home, threshold, family's safety, your castle has been compromised in the wee hours of the mrng. once again for discussion, you KNOW this has happened(alarm that would definately not be going off, people speaking in the hallway outside your door, OR ANY reason that suits you and possibly none of the ones mentioned).

You have children in multiple rooms upstairs. In my case we have two children so far in 2 seperate rooms, so that is three rooms counting my wife & I. Do I just go bezerk no matter what the case and just make a beeline to my offspring's room and risk being the first casualty and lose my chance to defend my family, or do I take a position for the imminent threat I know is about to play out?

I would prefer to do this and to shoot rapid fire at the earliest and best possible moment. The situation changes and becomes more difficult when I leave my defensive position; I don't think they are there for my kids but how the heck do I know? I think they are about to try and overpower the two adults but again, who knows? What do you do? Do you engage a gunfight on your terms, or do you round up your children 1st which at the very least shows your hand(your up)?

either way you dialed 911 and put the phone down
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Old June 24, 2011, 06:48 AM   #2
Tachi
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If you're dead, you can't do anyone else any good. You might hate yourself later if something happens to one of your kids, but, it's the way it has to be if the BGs are between you and them. Don't do anything to give yourself away. Lay in ambush. Use every advantage. See to yourself first, then clear the house and get your kids.
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Last edited by Tachi; June 24, 2011 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old June 24, 2011, 06:56 AM   #3
Uncle Buck
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I usually do not respond to threads like this, but this morning I am in a cranky mood. Are you asking us when you can shoot? Asking us for permission to shoot? ("But I read online that I had the right to shoot them. Why am I in hand-cuffs?")

I am in a state that has the Castle Doctrine in place. My county has a reasonable Sheriffs Depart, and a County Prosecutor, that does not believe criminals are just misguided individuals. I know the laws of the land where I live.

What do I do? I Call 911, and wait. If there is not an immediate threat to my family, I am going to stand down until I have no choice. I am going to announce that I have called the police and that I am armed.

I will also remember the first time I shot someone. I will also remember the time I was shot. I do not want to go through that again.

I can replace the TV, the computer, the "Stuff".

I am going to pray like there is no tomorrow that nothing happens. I will be prepared if it does, but I am not going to be active in trying to push anything to the next level.

You have an advantage. You know your kids are upstairs with you. Play blocking force at the top of the stairs and do not allow anyone to come up those stairs. You most valuable resources are already up there with you.
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Last edited by Uncle Buck; June 24, 2011 at 07:07 AM. Reason: removed snarky comments.
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Old June 24, 2011, 07:57 AM   #4
jhenry
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Exactly correct. Get yourself and the family together, then disallow any harm to come to them. If things are set up in such a way as to make this very difficult it may be time to re-examine the floor plan in regards to who sleeps where. Make it easier to get folks together in a defensible place.
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Old June 24, 2011, 08:39 AM   #5
Spats McGee
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First, get a plan. You have the home court advantage, and you should use it. My family and I live in a small apartment. Nonetheless, I know where the weapons, the backstops and the blind spots are.

Second, teach the whole family the plan. My daughter has already been taught where to go and what to do in the event of a tornado or a home invasion. My wife has the same information. I don't know how old your kids are, but they don't really have to be very old to understand something like "if bad guys get in the house, get behind your dresser. If they get to your room, stay there & fight & scream."

Uncle Buck said it well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Buck
I can replace the TV, the computer, the "Stuff".

I am going to pray like there is no tomorrow that nothing happens. I will be prepared if it does, but I am not going to be active in trying to push anything to the next level.

You have an advantage. You know your kids are upstairs with you. Play blocking force at the top of the stairs and do not allow anyone to come up those stairs. You most valuable resources are already up there with you.
If your wife and kids are upstairs with you, then you have everything that you really need. All of that "Stuff" can be replaced. Your kids cannot.

I would also add that I can't tell from the OP if your kids' rooms are upstairs or not. If they are, great. If not, and if there's an extra room up there (guest room, home office, etc), consider swapping some rooms around. Having everyone upstairs puts you in a pretty good position to use the stairs as a chokepoint.
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Old June 24, 2011, 08:45 AM   #6
Ringolevio
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Harden your perimeter

Hear, hear! to everything Uncle Buck and jhenry said, plus:

If you have enough foresight to consider such situations, then you have the foresight to invest in perimeter protection that makes such situations less likely, e.g., a dog, a competent and defeat-resistant alarm system (including annunciators for your driveway and other approaches), better locks and physical barriers, and a security-driven family routine.

Your gun is the bottom line and last resort in home defense. Everything else should be geared to avoiding and preventing a situation you have to shoot your way out of.
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Old June 24, 2011, 03:56 PM   #7
youngunz4life
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Tachi answered my question

thanks for all the responses and I apologize for not being clear of the layout. we have people sleeping in three upstairs rooms at night(3 rooms total: our room and our two children's rooms). My children are very young. If someone or more than one person ends up in the upstairs of my home in the wee hours of the morning, there is an extremely good chance they will be shot.

In my OP, I was trying to relay the situation of your home being breached and you and your family are in grave danger(whatever scenario in your head that fits the bill). My main concern/question from a tactics position, is whether or not I should run to the kids' rooms immediately or play it by ear? the stairs coming to my upstairs are between our room and the 2 children's rooms. Regardless it will happen very quick! The probability of someone being shot will be much lower if no perp comes upstairs, but one might not have time to gather up the children. Where do you draw the line? seeing someone upstairs? not seeing some yet? In my scenario I already know someone is in the home and that my family is in danger(giving me split seconds to make up my mind). One can hope some items downstairs are being stolen only, but that scenario is doubtful in my opinion. I need to make up my mind whether to risk leaving my room to grab my children or laying wait in my room while the cavalry is coming. Obviously I have always planned on grabbing my children, but one must be honest about the possibility of not being able to just 'head to my babies' rooms no matter what the case'. Everybody's picture of the situation or their personnel layout differs, but in my "picture" I guess I am talking about a home invasion where everyone is going to be corralled and/or contained. At least that is always the worst case scenario I plan for. My babies are still in their cribs, but that is just my personal situation. I think I will still have choices to make when the children are closing in on double digits give or take a couple yrs. Plans are a great idea and I appreciated that advice. Decisions in this matter are many times a matter of life and death(for the perps or the victims). There are examples on both sides.

I was just reading today about two masked men up north where I grew up(in a very quiet area) who invaded someone's home and assaulted the adult while overpowering him in front of the children. Luckily, nobody was physically, seriously injured.
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Old June 24, 2011, 05:06 PM   #8
Doc Intrepid
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YG4L,

The above advice about 'a plan' is right on target.

What you really need is some 'delay' in your home defense planning, so that you are not initially aware that your perimeter is breached when someone is climbing up the stairs.

Given sufficient advance warning, the answer is (as stated above) "move to a position where you can defend the kids (put the kids to your back), and then hold that position with a cell phone in your hand dialed to 911."

There are many ways to engineer an internal position from which to defend the kids - one of the easiest is to install a solid core door with security hinges and a deadbolt in the kid's bedroom doorframe. Move both kids into that room, and lock the door.

Too many other options to list, home defense planning can get complex - but the point is that to have any workable defense the goal is to recognize that you're under attack early enough that you still have time in which to respond. Dogs can buy you that early warning, or alarm systems can also perform that function (or both), but one or the other should be a part of your home defense planning to allow you to take necessary steps to respond appropriately.

Best,

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Old June 24, 2011, 06:08 PM   #9
AK103K
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Quote:
Dogs can buy you that early warning....
I was starting to think no one kept "house" dogs anymore. Dogs are one of the best deterrents and proactive alarm systems going.

Ours usually go off before the drive and perimeter yard alarms do, and everyone knows it too, including anyone outside. If somehow, someone were to make it inside the house, 250 pounds of PO'd Rottweiler will let you know just where the problem is. No need to clear the house, and you'll now exactly who is who if family are moving around.

You dont even have to be "in" the house. In the yard, the bodyguard is always right there with the rest of the family.
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Old June 24, 2011, 06:18 PM   #10
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Castle Doctrine or Stand your Ground legislation

You may or may not know, but no one has mentioned the law in all this. Depending where you live, you may be required by law to announce your intent to use lethal force in your home/on your property against an intruder. Check with NRA-ILA. If your state has enacted Castle Doctrine you are not required to retreat or submit to an intruder committing or attempting to commit a forcible felony against you or anyone lawfully on your premises or your property, however you may be required to state your intention to use lethal force before doing so. If your state has Stand your Ground legislature enacted you don't even have to state your intentions to a bad guy. in which case, if someone has forced open a window/door and entered they have already committed forcible felony and you are all clear to shoot (provided you are in the premises first). If you catch someone in your car or out-building, things change and you need to be careful. If you come home and your property has been breached/invaded do not enter it. Call the police.

If you are permitted by law in your state to shoot without warning in order to protect yourself, your family or your property (arson?), I would consider doing so as soon as it is safe to you and yours. A very difficult decision with huge consequences of course.

And now believe none of what I just said and research for yourself.

-SS-
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Old June 24, 2011, 06:34 PM   #11
youngunz4life
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guys I have an alarm system

this thread can go wherever it likes but the OP question is or should be:

would you automatically secure your children first or would you possibly not do that during a home invasion. Tachi is the only one who answered the question. I have an extensive alarm, we have a pet, and we have lights, sensor lights, locks, etc. none of those things are the issue of this thread. Assume your home has been breached. Some big dude kicked in your effin door, shot your dog, and doesn't give a hoot your alarm went off. he'll probably put a gun to your wife's head and instruct you to cancel the alarm when the company calls(as mentioned already in first two posts: use whatever example you see fit). this is a one shot deal to choose to secure your kids before taking a position or choosing to let that choice pass while getting ready for an imminent gunfight.

all the best

yes, there have been some things to think about that have been mentioned and good advice, but only tachi answered the question
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Old June 24, 2011, 08:42 PM   #12
SRH78
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This hasn't been mentioned but if the intruder is armed, having the kids right there next to you could actually put them at greater risk since any shots fired will be coming your direction. All of this will also happen quickly so turning your back or entering the kids room could leave you exposed. I would quickly and quietly get to a position to ambush anyone coming up the stairs from a position offering the greatest possible advantage.
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Old June 24, 2011, 09:03 PM   #13
Spats McGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngunz4life
would you automatically secure your children first or would you possibly not do that during a home invasion. Tachi is the only one who answered the question. I have an extensive alarm, we have a pet, and we have lights, sensor lights, locks, etc. none of those things are the issue of this thread. Assume your home has been breached. Some big dude kicked in your effin door, shot your dog, and doesn't give a hoot your alarm went off. he'll probably put a gun to your wife's head and instruct you to cancel the alarm when the company calls(as mentioned already in first two posts: use whatever example you see fit). this is a one shot deal to choose to secure your kids before taking a position or choosing to let that choice pass while getting ready for an imminent gunfight.
Tachi probably has the tactically wise answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachi
If you're dead, you can't do anyone else any good. You might hate yourself later if something happens to one of your kids, but, it's the way it has to be if the BGs are between you and them. Don't do anything to give yourself away. Lay in ambush. Use every advantage. See to yourself first, then clear the house and get your kids.
However, it's that "hate yourself later" that I couldn't take. Under the scenario given -- home breached and a really bad dude in the house -- I would have to make sure my daughter was secure. How I go about that depends on the situation.
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Old June 24, 2011, 09:33 PM   #14
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AWAKE!! At 0300.

Arrange your night-lights to give you the advantage of seeing Potential Perpetrators before they can see you -- no matter which way they enter your home. A simple driveway car-alert or baby-monitor can be turned on when all the family are upstairs. A simple string-across-the-steps could alert you for a real cheap investment. But, first of all, inform the family, especially if you've all just seen an event like this on TV. Are the kids old enough to hand pepper-spray? And HARDEN ALL YOUR ENTRANCES. L1S1
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Old June 24, 2011, 09:53 PM   #15
Constantine
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In my situation, that happened. (before the police academy) Before I had my alarm. (I just got it 1 week ago) what I did was grab my gun sit in my room, called the police...then grabbed my keys and hit the panic button on my car. Only room I went to was my sisters. My old man is locked and loaded in the room with my mother and my brother is right next to my sisters room. Waited. Neighbors even called the police. I stayed gun aimed at the door and I'm sure my old man did too. (he did) my mom called my sisters cell phone to see if she was okay. I explained to them what I was wearing and I was armed and so was my pops.
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Old June 24, 2011, 10:05 PM   #16
BGutzman
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Property is replaceable your life and that of your loved ones is not.... IMHO I would buy some low cost kevlar body armor and keep it close and then come up with a plan and practice it over and over and make it something you do every so often...

For young kids I would make it a game so as not to scare them....

The other thing you may want to consider is calthrops (basically foot spikes) to slow the attacker while you get your plan going..
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