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Old June 22, 2011, 08:50 AM   #1
younggunz82
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Newbie in need of help. 45 acp 230gr lrn

hey guys, I'am new to reloading, and after much thought I decided on the Lee Classic loader for a first set up(as cost was a factor). I know that this is'nt probley the best route that i should have taken, but i did'nt want to have a ton of money tied up in something that I may have not liked.. Well I LOVE it. I've read several manual and have tried to take what I learned from them an apply it to the Classic loader. For components I'm using WLP, Imr SR7625, Sutten's Choice 230gr LRN, and mixed once fired brass. i have worked up to a charge that feels good and functions great. the problem I'm having is that i just cant seemed to get an accuracy from my reloads. I do know that the Classic does'nt allow me to expand, or crimp. I do get an ever so slight bit of shaving when seating the bullet. I guess my question is, Is there anything I can do with the setup I have to product more accurate ammo?? Hope someone can help besides telling me to get a press. Thanks in advance.

5.8gr Imr SR-7625
WLP
230gr LRN Sutten's Choice
1.270" o.a.l.

Win Brass
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Old June 22, 2011, 10:46 AM   #2
TATER
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Nothing is wrong with the Classic, Its a good press.
Expanding and crimping is a function of your dies and how they are set up, You are
more than able to do both with the classic. Re-read the instruction for setting up your dies.
You don't need much of a bell on the mouth of the case.
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Old June 22, 2011, 10:52 AM   #3
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How bad is the accuracy you are getting?
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Old June 22, 2011, 11:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Nothing is wrong with the Classic, Its a good press.
Expanding and crimping is a function of your dies and how they are set up
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the OP is saying that he bought the Lee Classic Loader in the sense that is the one that requires a mallet to actuate.
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Old June 22, 2011, 11:07 AM   #5
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I do beleive you are right, ok0084.
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Old June 22, 2011, 11:24 AM   #6
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Another Ah-Ha moment. Yes, I see that now.
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Old June 22, 2011, 11:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
How bad is the accuracy you are getting?
The question still stands.
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Old June 22, 2011, 08:39 PM   #8
younggunz82
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it is infact the Lee Classic Loader. As far as accuracy I've been getting 6 shots inside of 6.5 inches at 10 yards, with a flyer or two. With factory ammo I've got better results. Where Iam at now as far as grains goes im getting a bit of unburnt powder still but not like I was at lower loads. And the recoil is just about par with factory ammo. I've though about trying another powder but dont want to have 3-4lbs of various powder laying around. Any suggestions??
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Old June 22, 2011, 09:39 PM   #9
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If you only have one pound of the IMR 7625, try one of the tried and true powders like Unique or Bullseye. These usually work very well. Universal also works well and is CLEAN! I'm not familiar with the bullets you're using, but 230gr LRN are pretty easy to load. Your OAL sounds about right. I'd say try a different powder. Good luck.
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Old June 22, 2011, 10:48 PM   #10
chris in va
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Lead in my experience really doesn't like to be pushed hard. Try loading down toward the bottom of the scale and see if things improve.
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Old June 23, 2011, 08:05 AM   #11
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Ditto that.
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Old June 23, 2011, 08:33 AM   #12
younggunz82
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Thanks for the replies, I'am contemplating a new powder unfortunatly my local gunshop doesnt carry much powder and selection is limited.
Also how well does powder hold up to storage?? I know they have a few cans that look rather old, probley older than I am.

As for lowering the charge i was getting decent accuracy out of one of the lighter loads but recoil was that of a 9mm or less. As that was noted in my log after shooting my G17, with factory ammo. It also wasnt a very reliable round as I had several FTE, out of the 14 rounds that were loaded at lower charges. Would the increased pressure from lowering my oal help in this area at all??

4.8grs SR7625
WLP
230gr LRN
O.F.B
oal 1.250"
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Old June 23, 2011, 08:57 AM   #13
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I have no experience w/ 7625. I have used Bulleye, Unique and AA#5 with good results from all of them.
I pretty much default to 4.6 of bullseye these days. Mild recoil and reliable cycling in both the 1911 & the Witness match, both running 18 or 18.5 pound springs. Pretty accurate as well.
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Old June 23, 2011, 09:15 AM   #14
jimbob86
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1/2 cc (3.6gr) of Red Dot should give you 750 f/sec with a 230 gr lead bullet, per Lee 2nd ed.
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Old June 23, 2011, 10:40 AM   #15
Loader9
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Two things.
You didn't say what pistol you are using this load in. If it's a Glock and it has the polygon rifling, it's not going to shoot lead bullets very well. Some won't shoot them at all which is what it sounds like to me. Polygon rifling and lead bullets usually doesn't work regardless of maker. The accuracy that you posted is not accuracy at all.

The Lee Classic press uses normal dies. If you are not expanding the case mouth, obviously you do not have the die adjusted correctly. You need to adjust the thumb turn on the top of the die down until it starts expanding the mouth. The crimp is in the bullet seat die and is adjusted by seating the die lower in the press and then adjusting the bullet depth.

Might take a look at the help vids at Lee so you can see what you need to be doing.
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Help-Videos.html
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Old June 23, 2011, 11:07 AM   #16
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Inadequate bullet-to-barrel fit can result in decreased accuracy. Have you slugged your barrel to determine the groove diameter?

Typically, for a .451" barrel, .452" bullet will provide a good fit.

If your barrel is oversized (.452"+), you may need to use bullets sized larger to improve your accuracy and decrease your leading.

For my .451" M&P45, even lighter target loads with .452" bullets produce accurate shot groups and no leading.
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Old June 25, 2011, 08:40 AM   #17
younggunz82
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Loader9, i should have stated that at the begining, The gun is a Colt 1991 5" Govt. i've always got great results with factory ammo. This is the step up I'm using as well. to help you guys better help me. http://leeprecision.com/xcart/LEE-LOADER-45-AUTO.html

BDS-THR, I have slugged the barrel, my reloading mentor who has since passed away slugged it an it was on the tight side of .451''. unfortunatley he didnt get the chance to teach me a fraction of what he knew.

I havent had any problems with leading at all, more so in the begining on the light loads I would get a fair amount of unburnt powder laying in the frame an the barrel.

Will be stopping buy the local gunshop to check out a possible purchase and maybe get a can of powder. With that said what are some tried an true .45 acp powders? I know G.I. Ammo was loaded with bullseye any other good brands out there??
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Old June 26, 2011, 12:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by younggunz82
With that said what are some tried an true .45 acp powders?
I have used Bullseye but prefer W231/HP-38 better (same powder). 5.0 gr for 230 gr LRN for cleaner burning and very accurate loads.
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Old June 26, 2011, 07:51 AM   #19
younggunz82
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Hey guys just want to say thanks for some of the helpful info I picked up here. Hopefully this wont be the last time i get great input.

I took the Colt to the range today, after loading up 7 rounds each of 5.8grs, and 5.3grs. The 5.3gr shot decent bvery dirty though. The 5.8gr loads shot awsome!!! I printed 7 rounds side by side at 10yrds. So I'am going to load a few more up and shoot abit before changeing powders.

What I think happened is its been very humid, and very damp here lately, and when I loaded up these rounds the humidity was under 60% compared to 100%. What do you guys think of this??
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Old June 26, 2011, 08:47 AM   #20
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You should go to the following web site and look at the loads for a lead bullet and 7625. Your load of 5.8 is right at the midpoint so (5.5 to 6.0) your pressure should be fine to function. I personally have no experience with 7625 so I don’t want to make too many comments but I did look up the burn rate and it’s on the slow side compared to Unique and W231 which are my favorites (231 being first).
That would also explain why you’re getting a lot of unburned powder in the barrel.
I couldn’t find any hardness ratios on the Sutten's Choice 230gr but since they are cast they will easily handle 1000 FPS with minimal leading. I have pushed hard cast 20+ BHN bullets up to 1700 FPS in a 44 mag rifle with no problems. So even the max pressure that is listed by Hodgdon will only get you 892 FPS.
The only bullet you will have problems with is swaged.
Your 1.27 seems to be a little long for COL. I don’t know if you got that from the manufacture or not but most of my books and several web sites list 1.200. Since the Sutten is a very rounded nose bullet (found it on MidwayUSA) and not very long I think you might shorten your COL a little.
Since your using a slower powder how is your crimp? One of the best additions to my reloading bench for accuracy for all Semi autos was a taper crimp die. This allows you to get a firm crimp and still feed reliably. With the slower powders this can help you get more consistent burns and less residue.
As far as humidity differences. As long as you keep your can sealed and don’t let it set out open very long there shouldn’t be much difference. Here in Indiana we get anywhere from 100% to 20% and I haven’t seen any changes in my reloads.
Glad to see from other suggestions your accuracy has improved greatly. You’re learning the one true fun aspect of reloading. Load development and test.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Powder burn rate: http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
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Old June 26, 2011, 09:39 AM   #21
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Ozzieman, I wanted to keep the O.A.L. on the long side just to be cautious. The 1.270" came from Lee 2nd edition, even though Hodgdons list all there 45 acp 230gr lrn loads at 1.200". I may try and reduce the COL to 1.20" just to see if that helps wiht anything. I just love to develope and test, its what makes reloading soooo fun!!! Im still new at this stuff.

i belive I'm going to step up to a warmer powder i.e. 231. As 7625 is listed at 23 on the burn rate chart I have.

Leading hasnt been an issue at all so im not really concerned with that at the velocities im putting down.

unfortunatley do to cash problems I dont have anyway to apply a crimp. hopefully in the future I can get a press and a nice 4 piece die set!! (Anyone got an old press they dont use anymore and wouldnt mind helping out a newbie??) The issue I have with the humidity is that my apartment seems to hold one to it for days, even with a dehumidifier its still rather damp all the time. I thank you for your input and your time!!
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Old June 26, 2011, 10:39 AM   #22
Ozzieman
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Taper crimp dies are very inexpensive and they are offered as a single die as low as 10$ and as high as 23$.
Having never used a Lee Classic loader I have no idea if you can use one with the set.



http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#45%..._1-2-4_8-16-32
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Old June 26, 2011, 01:28 PM   #23
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Here's another vote for WW 231/HP38. I went thru many pounds of 231 loading .38's for PPC and it's a great powder for .45acp as well. Classic loader looks interesting but I started with a single stage and I suspect you'll be able to produce better ammo with a single stage or turret press. I'm not saying you can't get top quality ammo from your current setup, never used it. Just seems to me that unless you're working under severe budgetary or space restrictions you'll be better served in your quest for accuracy with a single stage.
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Old June 26, 2011, 07:11 PM   #24
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Acurate 45 ACP

Young Gun,

A lot of us bullseye shooters use 200 gr lead SWC in our 1911's. Although accurate loads can vary from gun to gun, here's a good starting load:

200 gr LSWC from Penn's Bullets, .451 dia; 4.2 gr Bullseye, 1.235" OAL. Should give you about 790 fps. You could drop down a few pounds from the stock 16 lb spring.

If your 1911 has trouble cycling SWC, try Berry's 185 gr plated round nose, hollow base bullets. Nearly as accurate as SWC but will feed like a 230 gr FMJ.
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Old June 27, 2011, 07:00 PM   #25
younggunz82
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Got a pound of 231 and will be loading some up after I type this, then range on wednesday!! Always a good time! i would just like to say thanks for the comments and I hope the rest of you one here are as great of guys. Also If anyone has a single stage press that there no longer using, and would maybe want to part with it please pm me! Once again thanks, and hope to cross paths again on my journey down the reloading road.
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