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Old June 18, 2011, 11:59 AM   #1
Don P
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S.B. 234 Florida

This is a email message I received from Florida Governor Rick Scott,
Quote:
Thank you for contacting Governor Rick Scott regarding legislation passed by the Florida Legislature during the 2011 regular session. The Governor appreciates your thoughts and asked that I respond on his behalf.

The Executive Office of the Governor follows all bills as they move through the legislative process. Please be assured, Governor Scott carefully considered your comments and those of other concerned citizens regarding Senate Bill 234 relating to Firearms as he made his decision.

After consulting with all interested parties and thoroughly weighing all sides of this issue, Governor Scott signed Senate Bill 234 into law on June 17. Information about the Governor's Bill Actions can be found on the Governor's web site at http://www.flgov.com/bill-action/

Thank you again for taking the time to contact the Governor's Office. Your input is important to him. Information about the Governor's administration and initiatives can be obtained online at www.flgov.com.

Sincerely,

Kira R. Frye
Office of Citizen Services
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Old June 18, 2011, 12:29 PM   #2
GoOfY-FoOt
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What did you ask in your letter?
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Old June 18, 2011, 12:32 PM   #3
Don P
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This is what I wrote,



Quote:
Governor, please sign SB 234 into law. Thank you for your service to the great state of Florida and in advance for your time in this matter.
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Old June 18, 2011, 12:53 PM   #4
GoOfY-FoOt
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Good deal...So, the way I understand it, once the Gov's signature is dry, the bill becomes law.
Has anyone tried to "inadvertently" show their weapon, yet???
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Old June 18, 2011, 01:20 PM   #5
Don P
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Testicular fortitude will not be forthcoming, from me. I do not wish to be the "test case law".
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Old June 18, 2011, 01:25 PM   #6
Don P
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I have not been able to find a answer for the question as to when it will be law. Some bills have a date when they go into effect. I'll keep looking. This is all that I could find,
Quote:
SECTION 9. Effective date of laws.—Each law shall take effect on the sixtieth day after adjournment sine die of the session of the legislature in which enacted or as otherwise provided therein. If the law is passed over the veto of the governor it shall take effect on the sixtieth day after adjournment sine die of the session in which the veto is overridden, on a later date fixed in the law, or on a date fixed by resolution passed by both houses of the legislature.
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Old June 18, 2011, 11:20 PM   #7
ClydeFrog
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NRA's ILA; Marion Hammer, Florida Gov Scott...

To my understanding, the new state law, Gov Rick Scott(R-FL) just signed means W/concealed firearm license holders can not face criminal charges if they display or "show" the weapon by accident or due to wind, rain, etc.

It does not by the expressed wording say W/concealed license holders or any firearm owner can "open carry" loaded firearms.
I'd refer to www.Myfloridalegal.com www.Mylicensesite.com or the NRA's ILA website; www.NRA.org .

This to me is a good plan & move for 2A supporters/gun owners in Florida but it's important to KNOW the state law too.
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Old June 19, 2011, 01:23 AM   #8
flcjinflorida
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"TALLAHASSEE (AP) - People with concealed weapons licenses will no longer face arrest for accidentally letting their guns show.

Gov. Rick Scott on Friday signed a new law (SB 234) decriminalizing such unintended displays. It's effective immediately.

Those who intentionally openly carry a weapon could still face jail time."

This was written by the Associated Press on the web site www.wtsp.com.
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Old June 19, 2011, 07:46 AM   #9
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Everyone keeps using words like "accidental" or "inadvertently" but the fact remains, the way the new law reads, the display can be intentional and deliberate, as long as it is not in an angry or threatening manner.


You can pull your shirt straight up and remove your wallet, and it would fall under the verbage of the law.

Am I reading it right?
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Old June 19, 2011, 09:52 AM   #10
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The way the law is read to me seems to mean that only unintentional showing of your weapon is legal. Open carry is still out of the question. I hope people don't try to open carry just to test the limits of the law.
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Old June 19, 2011, 11:04 AM   #11
GoOfY-FoOt
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There's that word again.
Quote:
"Unintentional"!
Show me where, in the law, it says that it can't be on purpose? It merely states that it can't be in an angry and threatening manner.

Quote:
"It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner..."
The only reason that the new law doesn't allow OC, is the fact that the open display must occur while carrying concealed.

The only questions I have to lawmakers are, what is their definition of, "briefly"?
And, who decides if someone's display has exceeded the permissible time allowed?
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Old June 19, 2011, 11:28 AM   #12
flcjinflorida
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The following is part of the full text of Senate Bill 234.

" (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection
32 (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about
33 his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device."

The numbers 32 and 33 correspond the the row that the text is found within the bill.
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Old June 19, 2011, 11:58 AM   #13
GoOfY-FoOt
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OK...Perhaps I wasn't clear and concise, OR vague and obtuse, enough?

I'm not saying that a Florida CWP holder can open carry. I'm saying that a Florida CWP holder can open carry, "briefly", while carrying concealed. AND, the Florida CWP holder could do it (carry openly, briefly) on purpose, if he or she chose to do so, as long as the intent was not "angry" or "threatening", in nature.
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Old June 19, 2011, 12:09 PM   #14
flcjinflorida
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Ah, I see what you mean now. It might be possible, but I wouldn't want to hazard what could happen should you come into contact with a law enforcement officer.
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Old June 19, 2011, 12:19 PM   #15
GoOfY-FoOt
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That is why I would like to know the intent of lawmakers.
The bill was supposed to be about open carry. Then, after apparent oppostion, it was about inadvertent display. The actual wording doesn't mention intent regarding display, other than the aforementioned, above. And, it doesn't define the word, "briefly".

You could offer a brief glance, or you could serve a brief stint in the military.
Kind of a wide berth, in regard to definition, IMO.
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Old June 19, 2011, 05:00 PM   #16
flcjinflorida
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The ones that originally supported the bill wanted it to be all about open carry. It got so much flack from the Criminal Justice sub-committee that they changed the wording to allow for only brief and accidental showings. Most of the people in Florida's House and Senate are Republican, and therefore like more freedoms for guns. The problem is we have a lot of Sheriffs who are Liberal and they can make life difficult for those who open carry.

I would love for them to allow for open carry, but I think this is a great step in the right direction. Eventually open carry will be allowed. We just have to keep on our legislatures to do the right thing.
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Old June 20, 2011, 11:44 PM   #17
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The First 48; Youtube Yo-Yos....

If you ever watched any of A&E's reality crime series: The First 48, you'll see most urban & veteran criminal investigators are not really impressed with what people "think" they just want to build cases & enforce the law.
I wouldn't act like one of those YouTube yo-yos who runs up and down city streets antagonizing uniformed LE officers to detain or arrest him.
The new Florida gun law is fairly clear to me. I'm not going to have law school debates with Larry the Cable Guy with a badge over what it means.

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Old June 21, 2011, 08:21 AM   #18
flcjinflorida
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There is no reason for you to be insulting to people. You weren't even a part of the conversation. I am just saying not to push your luck because you don't want to be the law's case trial.
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Old June 21, 2011, 10:21 AM   #19
Don P
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machiasmort, according to the web site Handgunlaw your N.Y. permit is good in 15 states not 40. Check here if you like, www.handgunlaw.us
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Old June 22, 2011, 10:13 AM   #20
Carry_24/7
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In the end, a judge and or jury will decide what's reasonable once charges are filed against us. What is "unintentional" or "brief" to us may seem the opposite to the next guy.
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Old June 22, 2011, 12:38 PM   #21
GoOfY-FoOt
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Let's break this down - And everyone give me their take !!!

I have taken the text from the new law, and extrapolated what I could, directly from the dictionary, as to intent and meaning, and this is the best that I could come up with, based on those definitions...

Point 1.
Quote:
It is not a violation...for a person licensed...as provided in s. 790.06(1),
Point 2.
Quote:
who is lawfully carrying a firearm...concealed...
Point 3.
Quote:
to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person...
Point 4.
Quote:
unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner...
Point 1 - An individual with a valid Florida (or recipricating state's) Concealed Weapon Permit, is NOT breaking the law,
Point 2 - if while carrying a concealed pistol, in a legal manner,
Point 3 - decides to, for an undetermined amount of time, reveal, disclose, exhibit, make evident, or even showcase, said weapon, in a manner which is easily recognizable or distinguishable to another individual,
Point 4 - as long as the presentation is not perceived as hostile or menacing.

Does that about sum it up?
What say you?
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Old June 22, 2011, 01:18 PM   #22
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Reply to What say You -

quote .......
Point 1 - An individual with a valid Florida (or recipricating state's) Concealed Weapon Permit, is NOT breaking the law,
Point 2 - if while carrying a concealed pistol, in a legal manner,
Point 3 - decides to, for an undetermined amount of time, reveal, disclose, exhibit, make evident, or even showcase, said weapon, in a manner which is easily recognizable or distinguishable to another individual,
Point 4 - as long as the presentation is not perceived as hostile or menacing.

Does that about sum it up?
What say you?
.......unquote

Here are two potential situations to be considered by a Law Enforcement Officer and/or Judge involving Mister A and Mister B (B is authorized Concealed carry):

#1. Individual A says to Individual B.
At what angle does the barrel point when you use Appendix carry ?
Individual B briefly displays holstered firearm.

#2. Individual A says to Individual B.
Are you threatening me ?
Individual B briefly displays holstered firearm.
.
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Old June 24, 2011, 04:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Don writes: machiasmort, according to the web site Handgunlaw your N.Y. permit is good in 15 states not 40. Check here if you like, www.handgunlaw.us
Don, 16, you forgot MI!!! Thanks for looking out, but I am licensed as a non-resident in other States that give further privileges on top of NY’s. They have made this subject so as you need a Lawyer.

I don’t want to derail the thread, but I never understood how one State could reject another States permit while they are all being subject to the same Federal background check. What part of “Shall not be Infringed”, do they not understand?

Paying credence to this topic, I want to very quickly mention for benefit of our members that there is a “PEACEABLE JOURNEY CLAUSE” written into Federal law that allows travel through stricter States, so long as you are law abiding in the State where you are coming from and legally allowed to have the firearm where you are going. Google and research for details!

I worked along side of James Fotis of L.E.A.A. (great man and great organization) to legalize 50 State free carry Laws for LEO’s. I served upon their Legislative action Committee. My views are not always theirs.

As for OC and CC, I may have expressed myself the wrong way. It should be the right of the permit holder to decide how he enacts his rights. I would just choose CC because it eliminates a lot of variables by default. I.E. George threatened me with his gun, Sir (talking to the Cop). If the complainant never seen George’s gun, they’d never know he had one, and further, would be unable to describe it. This would immediately prove George’s innocence.
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Old June 25, 2011, 01:27 AM   #24
ClydeFrog
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Steven Wright joke about 7-11s in AK...

A few of these posts remind me of stand-up comic(and USAF veteran) Steven Wright's bit about how stressful it would be to work in a 7-11 in Alaska. Cause everyone who walks in the door has a ski-mask.

The new FL 2A/gun law is a step forward for gun owners.
Does it mean you wander about the Walmart looking like a old west gunfighter? NO!
But(to me) it's saying if a wind or breeze blows your garment(coat, vest, jacket, suit, parka, bathrobe, etc) open and your LEGAL firearm is exposed, you won't face criminal charges.

Now some citizens may ignore you or say; "so what", but I have heard & read of a few documented cases of a "concealed" firearm being shown or exposed then a bystander/citizen wigs out!

I'll close by saying to me it's an issue of common sense & good judgement.
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