The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 25, 2014, 04:28 PM   #1
boondocker385
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2013
Posts: 399
small pistol primers in 45 acp

first of all....grrrrrr.
second...I don't have any loads in my two (yes I know I need more) books so I am going back to starting loads and work up. anything to watch out for?
__________________
No second place finishes in a gun fight.
boondocker385 is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 04:43 PM   #2
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,383
Just load 'em up like you would real .45 ACP.
Small pistol standard primers will give 25-40 fps lower velocity with the powders and bullets I have tried.
Small pistol magnum primers will make that back up and shoot very close to large pistol standard.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 04:46 PM   #3
bigautomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 610
Quote:
anything to watch out for?
Yes. Brass with large primer pockets.. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
+1 What Jim said
bigautomatic is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 05:01 PM   #4
Misssissippi Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Posts: 1,407
I have loaded both primer sizes. When I want to make certain I will make power factor for matches I add .1 grain more powder when using the small primer brass. This seems to be enough depending on the primers being used. Some primers might give you a few feet per second higher or lower speed. If you are loading for competition you always need to check the velocity of your ammo when you change primers or even a different lot of powder. This is necessary if you are loading close to the minimum requirements.

For general plinking, I load both cases the same.
Misssissippi Dave is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 05:47 PM   #5
pathdoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2013
Posts: 497
So what exactly is happening here? Is there a generic switch to small pistol from large in .45 ACP? Or are only some companies switching, and for specific applications?
pathdoc is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 05:58 PM   #6
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 1,666
This was my cure after getting fed up with sorting them.

Click photo to play the video
jmorris is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 06:53 PM   #7
Misssissippi Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Posts: 1,407
I believe when they started to make Non-toxic ammo in .45 there were already small pistol primers made for that. So, instead of developing a large pistol primer to do the same thing it was easier to just make cases using small primers. As long as you have small primer brass, now you could easily make other loads using too. Federal and Winchester have some ammo using small primers. There are a few others as well. Federal Champion is often sold by Walmart and it does have a small primer. WinNT (the NT I believe stands for Non-Toxic) is another I come across often. Most of my small primer brass is used for matches where I may not recover much or any of my brass. If I luck out and do get enough of it back I just load it up again.

Yea, sorting by primer size is a pain. Not reusing good brass again is a waste.
Misssissippi Dave is offline  
Old January 25, 2014, 11:45 PM   #8
mnoirot64
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2013
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee
Posts: 355
CCI Blazer 45 ACP is almost always uses small primers.
mnoirot64 is offline  
Old January 26, 2014, 12:26 PM   #9
boondocker385
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2013
Posts: 399
@jmorris. interesting solution.
__________________
No second place finishes in a gun fight.
boondocker385 is offline  
Old January 26, 2014, 12:37 PM   #10
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 2,354
Quote:
I believe when they started to make Non-toxic ammo in .45 there were already small pistol primers made for that. So, instead of developing a large pistol primer to do the same thing it was easier to just make cases using small primers.
^^ Mississippi Dave has it right. ^^

To my knowledge, anyway.

So as far as I know, there is no "push" to covert 45ACP to a small primer platform. There's just small and large primer varieties now. Originally, they were produced to accommodate the lead-free primers for indoor shooting and whatever environmentally sensitive (real or imagined) venues. Now, companies like Blazer (CCI) and American Eagle (Federal) have switched to the small primer platform for their economy lines. That said, I don't see a predominate movement to small primer pockets.

Myself, I recondition them for reloading, but segregate and reserve them. I've never loaded any, but may some day - who knows.
__________________
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, it's because your tactics suck." -- Allen West, quoting Marine 1st Sgt Jim Reinfinger
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old January 27, 2014, 07:50 AM   #11
kerreckt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2011
Location: SE VA.
Posts: 106
I chrono'd equal loads with the only difference being either large primer or small primer. I found NO difference in velocity. YMMV. Best wishes
kerreckt is offline  
Old January 28, 2014, 10:00 PM   #12
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,529
I bought two boxes of Federals by mistake, not noting that they were small primers...but no problem...just a PITA to keep the brass separated from those that take the larger size. Loading is the same, and identical loads show the same velocities through my chronograph...Just load 'em and shoot 'em as you would their large size brethren. Rod
__________________
Our Flag does not fly because the wind blows against it, it is moved instead, by the dying breath of our patriots in uniform. Our Freedom is not free, it's been paid for many times over.
USAF Forward Air Controller, 5th Spl Forces,
An Loc, lll Corps, RVN, 69-70, Vietnam Vet '69-'73
rodfac is offline  
Old January 29, 2014, 01:26 PM   #13
willr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2006
Posts: 241
When you reload for several pistol cartridges, it really is helpful not to have to find both sizes of primer. I know that for some it is a problem to have two sizes of primer for 45acp. But for me it is a relief to have only one.

willr
willr is offline  
Old January 29, 2014, 02:06 PM   #14
jtmckinney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 382
When I purchase range pickup brass I separate at first inspection after cleaning. Extra trouble but I try to make it work to my benifit.

I load for my 1911's which I stay within book loads and do not hot rod. I also load for a Hi-Point Carbine which I am totally off the reservation. I load for my 1911's with large primers and load for the carbine with small primers. I mark the recipe info I keep with the cartridges "Carbine Only" but that I know I only load the carbine in small pistol it give me another lever of protection just in case.

If someone has enough small primer brass to make it worth the shipping I would be glad to pay the going rate. I am in the DFW area. Let me know.

Thanks!
James
__________________
“Government does few things well but it does them at great expense” Cal Thomas “When Government Can’t Be Trusted” 6/11/2013
jtmckinney is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 07:10 AM   #15
Gdawgs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2009
Location: Hutchinson, MN
Posts: 593
Nice work Jmorris! That is awesome!!
Gdawgs is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 09:59 AM   #16
totaldla
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2009
Posts: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris

This was my cure after getting fed up with sorting them.
Love your solution! Just one thing not apparent to me - do you have a solenoid activating the ball-point pen? And is there a spring ejector permanently at that station?
totaldla is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 06:20 PM   #17
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 1,666
Yes, there is a trunk latch solenoid moving the pen. It has an internal spring to return it's position when the power is cut off.

The pen acts as the locator and is locked behind the case if activated. When the tool head moves up off of the case is finishes returning to it's original position.
jmorris is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 10:22 PM   #18
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,888
As others said-Load them as normal and shoot. I did load work and when I was done, I was right back to were I was with large primers. I don't chrono my pistol loads as I don't really care how fast they are going. I shoot maybe 25 yards at most. Accuracy is all I want.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 10:54 PM   #19
ATPBULLETS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2012
Location: Land between the Lakes
Posts: 194
jmorris.... awesome solution...
ATPBULLETS is offline  
Old February 1, 2014, 12:02 PM   #20
G_P
Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2014
Posts: 42
Quote:
CCI Blazer 45 ACP is almost always uses small primers.
I picked up 100 pieces of .45 brass last time I was at the range 99 were large primer and ONE was a Blazer with a small primer pocket. Grrrrrr!
G_P is offline  
Old February 1, 2014, 01:08 PM   #21
fatman73
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2011
Posts: 13
I don't really care it all works for me . I don't complain about free brass
fatman73 is offline  
Old February 1, 2014, 01:52 PM   #22
Arnier
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2013
Posts: 1
Use em all!

I load them both, same load (5.0 gr Bullseye). I use a 9/32 drill bit as a check gage (fits in large primer pocket but not small). It's an extra step, but brass is brass.
Arnier is offline  
Old December 3, 2014, 08:15 PM   #23
nemloc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4
While I consider myself pretty handy, I don't have the luxury for any significant metal fabrication. Is there any solution that can be purchased today that will separate the large/small primer 45 cases either as a sorting step or as something attached to a Dillon machine?

If not, than does anyone know where I could get some replacement swaging rods with some sort of spring in them? (to build one of the above solutions that either detects it and alerts the operator/motor or flicks it out somehow)

@jmorris: the pen solenoid solution is just ingenious. Happy to chat about purchasing a kit from you.
nemloc is offline  
Old December 3, 2014, 08:37 PM   #24
riflemen
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2014
Posts: 259
Jmorris isn't it a lot more work to color all the small primer cases with a sharpie? How long does the sharpy last before you need to replace it? Is that a ball point pen ink sensing? How does it know? Amazing, how ever it works!!!


LOL, just kidding, but seriously it looks awesome, very nice work, 10pts to you sir...

As far as the small and large primers, I just don't load small primer brass, I have a friend that will tradde me 2-1 smal for large, so i am fine with that, since when ever I get it its free and I will only buy new bullets or brass in larger primer, much less work...
riflemen is offline  
Old December 3, 2014, 08:41 PM   #25
nemloc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4
I'm fine with that solution riflemen, I'm not set on loading it, just sorting it out. I pick it up in small random quantities when I go to an indoor range, and then potentially in larger quantities when I take a class where I just sweep the brass into a bucket and deal with it later.

Having a small primer brass get into the mix is a problem when that large primer tries to squeeze in there. Especially when you're trying to motorize the loader.
nemloc is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12413 seconds with 9 queries