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Old June 16, 2011, 12:30 PM   #26
Edward Horton
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And don't ask what I painted my 2A1 with or which can I used.



Gravity never lies and a twisted fore stock above on a 7.62 2A1 .
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Old June 16, 2011, 12:45 PM   #27
LarryNTX
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I was just having a little fun with the Krylon comment.
My personal preference for milsurp stocks is a mixture of 1 part Tru-Oil and 4 parts BLO. A couple of coats on a well cleaned stock gets the finish close to what I want, then I can adjust the mixture with more or less Tru-Oil to get more or less gloss for the final coat.
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Old June 16, 2011, 02:31 PM   #28
Edward Horton
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LarryNTX

When I first came into the forums I got a lot of bad info and took people at their word. My first Enfield was refinished with Behr Tung Oil and it turned out to not have any tung oil in it and was nothing more than a linseed oil base wiping varnish. (with modified pine sap in it)

As you can see below the words:

"Most finishes today contain petroleum distillates, solvents or heavy metal drier additives" and these toxic chemicals should NOT be applied bare handed. British, Canadian and Australia have stricter health laws that forbid these additives from being added. So remember "WHO" and from "WHAT" country information is given here in these forums.


"Tried & True™ Traditional Finishes

Most finishes today contain petroleum distillates, solvents or heavy metal drier additives. These don't. Developed largely from polymerized linseed oil with other natural-product additives, the finishes strictly adhere to the standards established by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) and qualify as non-toxic and safe for food-contact surfaces in both their uncured and cured (wet and dry) states.

Made using traditional 18th-century production techniques, all are high-yield finishes, providing coverage of at least 75 square feet per 16 fl oz/473ml. We offer three easy-to-use formulas: Original Wood Finish, Danish Oil and Varnish Oil.

Original Wood Finish
Dubbed a "true general-purpose finish", the Original Wood Finish formula is a highly refined polymerized linseed oil with pure beeswax as an additive. Adapted from a Shaker recipe, the finish produces a warm antique sheen that is luminous without appearing glossy.

Ideal for all interior woodwork, including doors, windows, trim, cabinets and furniture, a thin coat of finish is applied, allowed to penetrate for 60 minutes, wiped, buffed dry and allowed to cure 24 hours between applications. Three coats are recommended for furniture application; two coats are sufficient for most other surfaces. Periodically buff surfaces to maintain sheen.

Danish Oil
The Danish Oil is pure polymerized linseed oil with no additives. An ideal choice for kitchenware and furniture, it penetrates deeply into wood surfaces and builds to a durable, water-resistant satin sheen.

The oil is applied sparingly to the surface, allowed to penetrate for 5 minutes and then wiped clean and buffed dry. Subsequent coats can be applied in as little as 24 hours though allowing 2 to 3 days between coats will speed curing of the finish. Good protection is achieved with 2 to 3 coats. Buff surfaces occasionally to maintain sheen.

Varnish Oil
The Varnish Oil is a combination of highly refined polymerized linseed oil and natural-resin varnish (modified pine sap). Its high resin content produces a durable water-resistant finish that buffs to a warm semi-gloss sheen.

Application is straightforward—brush or wipe on in moderation, leave to penetrate for 60 minutes, then wipe and buff dry. Additional coats can be applied after as little as 24 hours with two to three coats recommended for best protection. Maintain sheen with an occasional buff with a soft, clean cloth.

Simple, environmentally-friendly finishing solutions available in 16 fl oz/473ml and 32 fl oz/946ml containers."


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...at=1,190,42942

In the past I have used BLO mixed 25/75 BLO and Turp and a wall paper wetting tray to "soak" the stock to get much deeper penetration. It can and has saved me from having to do bedding work on fore stocks with wood shrinkage. (and wore rubber gloves)

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Old September 30, 2011, 05:39 PM   #29
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My apologies for the necropost, but I wanted to share two things about this thread:

One, I have bookmarked this thread in my favorites. The information is excellent, hard to find, and very very useful. Great thanks to Edward Horton for his contributions.

Two, the comments about 'toxic BLO' scared me silly! I've been hand-rubbing BLO into my rifles for some time, and the idea that I was inadvertently exposing myself and friends to toxic heavy metals was disturbing to say the least! I took Mr. Horton's advice and checked the MSDS for the brand of BLO that I used, "Crown". It is available here:
http://whatsinproducts.com/msds/9100...PHPSESSID=5259

To my relief, it contains only 100% boiled linseed oil. No toxins. I must have lucked out and got one of the 5% of American BLO's that do not use toxic heavy metals. Even better, it is only $8.00 a quart, produces a very agreeable finish, and is commonly available at Lowe's. I am posting this so that people who use BLO with less-than-confidence-inspiring MSDS contents will know of a safer alternative.
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Old September 30, 2011, 06:28 PM   #30
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As you've discovered actual information is far more comforting than rambling ignorant gibberish.
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Old September 30, 2011, 06:56 PM   #31
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For a deep rich finish on GOOD wood , my favorite was G96 Lin-Speed oil. I'd thin it out with turpentine so it soaked in deeped and dried quicked. Haven't seen it in years though. BC Tru-Oil is darn near as good and available everywhere.

For a more durable utilitarian finish on not so select military wood stocks , Tung Oil is what I use.
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Old October 1, 2011, 10:05 PM   #32
Chris_B
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Lin-speed is still out there. I've used it a few times. My Dad had a jar of it that lasted 40 years- a couple drops would do an entire stock. he bought a new jar year before last

http://www.lin-speed.com/
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Old October 4, 2011, 08:56 PM   #33
CapnJ
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I've used BLO on a few stocks, and Tru-Oil on some others. I like the look of both, but for old military rifles I really like it best when it looks like what it was "supposed" to look like. 9 out of 10 times, that would mean BLO. This time, however, it doesn't.

I recently came into a 1916 BSA No1 MkIII that was FTR'd into beech wood, which is a little unusual for a No1. The finish, as you can see, is not the usual BLO glow, and I have every reason to believe that this is how it was imported after undergoing a FTR at BSA. I needed to know the proper finish for this rifle, and now I know what that finish was. Had I applied BLO or something else, I would have been sorely disappointed with the results.

Again, thanks to all who shared information in this thread, with particular thanks to Edward Horton for supplying the documents that helped me make an informed decision.

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Old December 23, 2013, 11:41 AM   #34
MadMetalManiac74
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Garandgear.com enjoy :-)

Last edited by MadMetalManiac74; December 23, 2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old December 23, 2013, 11:51 AM   #35
MadMetalManiac74
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Quote:
Good quality BLO works perfectly well & the finish is absolutely indistinguishable from regular linseed oil once it has dried. Avoid the cheap bargain brands & you'll be perfectly fine. The only real world difference is the drying time, everything else is pretty much the same in practical terms.
There seems to be a huge misunderstanding of the differences of oils especially cold pressed raw vs. boiled which are two completely different oils and will NOT give you the same finish.

inseed oil is probably the most confusing of oils to choose from. This is due to several variations of the oil that are commonly available. Linseed oil in its most pure form is pressed from the flax seed and filtered. This oil is also known as flax seed oil. This cold pressed oil is rich in fatty acids. These fatty acid's are responsible for the deep red patina that develops on our rifle stocks with age. The acid specifically responsible for this is linolenic acid. These fatty acids also slow the cure process making raw linseed oil one of the slowest curing oils available. This unprocessed oil is the one we want to use on our rifle stocks to produce an authentic patina with time.

Raw linseed oil sold by many companies today isn't raw in the form we discussed above. This type of oil should be called refined linseed oil. The art community around the 15th century began to seek ways to convert raw linseed oil into a form that didn't yellow or change colors with time. This was important because the artists didn't want their colors to yellow with time. To address the problems of yellowing the method of refining the oil was developed.

A process was devised where the fatty acids could be extracted from the linseed oil. Refined linseed oil is slightly faster curing then its raw form but will not develop the red patina with time. To add to the confusion, products marketed by companies like the Sunnyside Corporation as "Pure Raw Linseed oil" are actually "Pure Refined Linseed oil". These oils are solvent extracted from the flax seed and the fatty acids are removed.

Before you purchase a raw linseed oil product, verify with the manufacturer that the oil has NOT been refined. A form of refined linseed oil called "Bleached linseed oil" is sometimes available at art stores. This is a refined oil that has undergone additional refining to allow it flow better in paint.

Boiled linseed oil is the form that most users are familiar with. This oil is commonly available at all hardware outlets today. Boiled linseed oil starts out as a refined linseed oil with the fatty acids removed. Metallic additives, known as "Siccatives" are added to the oil to speed up the crosslinking process. These additives can be Cobalt or manganese salts. Zirconium, Calcium or Zinc salts are also used. In some cases Lead and barium salts are sometimes added. This allows the oil to cure in 12-24 hours. Boiled linseed oil will never develop the deep red patina that we see on USGI stocks today. I'll say that again :-)

Boiled linseed oil will never developed the red oxidation that cold pressed raw oil will.
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Old December 23, 2013, 02:06 PM   #36
emcon5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnJ
To my relief, it contains only 100% boiled linseed oil. No toxins. I must have lucked out and got one of the 5% of American BLO's that do not use toxic heavy metals. Even better, it is only $8.00 a quart, produces a very agreeable finish, and is commonly available at Lowe's. I am posting this so that people who use BLO with less-than-confidence-inspiring MSDS contents will know of a safer alternative.
For what it's woth, I looked up the MSDS for the Kleen-strip brand BLO I use, pretty sure I got it at Wal Mart, but a search of Ace Hardware's web site, it is the only brand listed.

http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/1...d%20Oil%29.pdf

The only hazardous ingredient listed is linseed oil.

Quote:
2. Composition/Information on Ingredients
Hazardous Components (Chemical Name)
Linseed oil
CAS #8001-26-1
Concentration 95.0 -100.0 %
OSHA PEL No data
ACGIH TLV No data
Got me curious, so I did some digging.
I looked on Walmart's site, they carry "Kleen-strip" as well as "Mona Lisa" brand BLO. A search of the MSDS from the manufacturer, Speedball Art http://www.speedballart.com/cms_wfc/uploads/171.pdf also shows the only hazardous ingredient as "Linseed Oil".

Home Depot only carries "KleenStrip" brand, noted above.
Lowes carries "Crown" brand, noted by "CapnJ" above.

Sherwin Williams carries several varieties.
"Startex" MSDS lists only "Linseed Oil"
"Crown" MSDS lists only "Linseed Oil"
"E-Z" MSDS lists only "Linseed Oil"

One just listed as "Boiled Linseed Oil" (house brand maybe?) manufactured by "Sunnyside corporation" with a bunch of crap in it, Cobalt Neodecanoate, Cobalt 2-Ethylhexanoate, Mineral Spirits, Diethylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether, Manganese Neodecanoate, Manganese 2-Ethylhexanoate.

I also found a MSDS from Cargil, for BLO that contains "Cobalt Driers", but didn't see anyone that actualy sold it.

From the looks of things, you will have to work at finding BLO that isn't just BLO.
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Old December 23, 2013, 02:29 PM   #37
MadMetalManiac74
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Quote:
The only hazardous ingredient listed is linseed oil.
Plain linseed oil in its raw form is not toxic. I'm not sure why they said it was on a msds but they're wrong. Linseed oil is pressed from the flax seed. It's all natural and the raw form can be rubbed in with bare hands. If you wat the best finish with 0 toxins check out garandgear. They cut their raw linseed oil with orange oil. It's a natural cleaner and let's the linseed oil soak in better.
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Old December 23, 2013, 02:57 PM   #38
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has anyone checked the date on this thread. you are arguing a point that has been forgotten for 2 and a half years.

with all that said thanks to the guy that resurrected this zombie thread for the information, I had often wondered what the different linseeds did. I have always just used BLO on my guns. but I am a little confused. I have never seen a deep red on a US service arm before. every stock I've seen with the exception of a few 1903A3s have had the epitome of walnut coloring. some of those A3s which I'm guessing had birch stocks did have a redish coloring but nothing that I would call a deep red. to illustrate. here's a pick of a 1903A4 and a A4 copycat in an A3 stock.
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Old December 23, 2013, 03:48 PM   #39
MadMetalManiac74
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Quote:
has anyone checked the date on this thread. you are arguing a point that has been forgotten for 2 and a half years.

with all that said thanks to the guy that resurrected this zombie thread for the information, I had often wondered what the different linseeds did. I have always just used BLO on my guns. but I am a little confused. I have never seen a deep red on a US service arm before. every stock I've seen with the exception of a few 1903A3s have had the epitome of walnut coloring. some of those A3s which I'm guessing had birch stocks did have a redish coloring but nothing that I would call a deep red. to illustrate. here's a pick of a 1903A4 and a A4 copycat in an A3 stock.
lol yeah I saw the date but still felt compelled to leave an accurate reply. The fact is that it's still info that's "out there" and as I'm reading through this, I realize that nobody in here really understands te difference between the two.

Not all USGI stocks will exhibit this and some it's very hard to tell cause the tint is so faint that the oils from 50+ years of handling have darkened them more than likely. You won't see it as clearly on walnut as say birch. I've also seen walnut stocks that people have dubbed "big red" for obvious reasons. It depends on storage, handling wear, wood type, method of application, and time. If you google image for garands you'll see a bunch!
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Old December 30, 2013, 02:37 AM   #40
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Edward Horton's detailed comments reflect what I've read in both "Gunboards" and "Surplusrifle" regarding what other Enfield experts describe.

Various sources suggest using raw linseed oil, often because it does Not seal in moisture, which Boiled linseed oil seems to do.

I could look up comments in my "Enfield #4/#5" book by Charles Stratton, but it was loaned to a friend.
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