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Old June 11, 2011, 09:50 AM   #1
C0untZer0
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Does anyone practice feeling their loaded chamber indicator in the dark?

Just wondering...
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:10 AM   #2
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I pay just about zero attention to my pistol's loaded chamber indicator, trusting far more to visual and tactile checks to the chamber itself.

That is a straight answer, but the other answers are going to be a lot more fun to read.
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:37 AM   #3
JC57
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Not me.
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:45 AM   #4
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No.
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:49 AM   #5
Frank Ettin
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Nor do I --

But I do practice a type of press check without looking, as follows:

[1] Follow rule THREE and keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard. 



[2] With the weak hand, grasps the slide with the thumb and middle finger on the REAR serrations and the index finger resting on the barrel hood.



[3] Pull the slide back slightly. Something between a quarter and a half and inch should do it.



[4] Allow the index finger to drop down into the space between the end of the barrel hood and the breech face. If there was a round in the chamber, you will feel it.

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Old June 11, 2011, 10:52 AM   #6
C0untZer0
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Quote:
I pay just about zero attention to my pistol's loaded chamber indicator, trusting far more to visual and tactile checks to the chamber itself.
Are you talking about the chamber indicator mainly as verifying that a firearm is unloaded?

I wouldn't advise anyone to use the indicator to verify an unloaded status... it should be cleared - drop magazine, lock the slide back, look inside the chamber etc...

I'm thinking more in terms of using the loaded chamber indicator to verify that you have a round in the chamber, like when you hear something in the middle of the night and you think you're going to have to arm yourself...
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Old June 11, 2011, 01:54 PM   #7
hogdogs
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I disable the LCI from all guns I buy that has one.

Just one more mechanical item to fail. And in many, if not most, instances, the LCI is actually in contact with the round and any thing I can do to reduce possible friction or binding is a good thing.

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Old June 11, 2011, 02:16 PM   #8
RedNeckChris
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I've never even understood the purpose in those things.
If you don't know or can't remember the status of your pistol, you maybe should think about a new, less complicated choice in weapon (muzzle loader maybe?).

Seriously... I'd have to question the safety habits of anyone who relies on some kind of "indicator" to know whether a round is chambered or not. Have you chambered a round? Then the chamber is loaded. Have you not yet chambered a round? Then in that case the chamber is empty. Are you in doubt? Then for Christ's sake, stop drinking so much and start practicing some basic gun safety. Right?

Chamber indicators are another misguided attempt (along with action locks and "safety's") to force safe gun handling on people who have no business owning a gun.
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Old June 11, 2011, 03:05 PM   #9
cambeul41
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Practice? That is ambiguous. Use it? Yes. Trust? No. Depend on? Certainly not.

Visual and tactile checks I trust. Memory? Of course I think I remember, but there is a rule about treating all guns as loaded for a reason.

Last edited by cambeul41; June 11, 2011 at 07:57 PM.
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Old June 11, 2011, 05:11 PM   #10
Don P
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Quote:
Does anyone practice feeling their loaded chamber indicator in the dark?
What does one do if the said handgun does not have a loaded chamber indicator?????
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Old June 11, 2011, 07:11 PM   #11
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my HD gun gets checked BEFORE the lights go out.
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Old June 11, 2011, 09:44 PM   #12
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British SAS method, Andy McNab...

I would learn & practice the SAS(Special Air Service) method, point the muzzle in a safe direction, keep your firing hand index finger OFF the trigger, pull the slide back slightly & feel the round in the pistol chamber. You can learn to do it by feel w/o looking down(as you watch or scan for serious threats) or be able to safely check a pistol's condition in low light.
Former 22nd SAS trooper Andy McNab(who is the subject of the film/book Bravo Two Zero; www.IMDb.com ) now works as a entertainment industry consultant(Heat, Colaterial) & instructs actors in this practical skill.
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Old June 11, 2011, 09:52 PM   #13
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No...

If my handgun is on me for carry purposes, I loaded it before I started. (I always silently - at least quietly - sigh when TV shows or movies have the 'entry team' stop just outside a doorway and check guns. This is NOT the time!)

At home, dang near everything is loaded anyway. I live practically alone and there are no children to fiddle with things.
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Old June 11, 2011, 09:56 PM   #14
orionengnr
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No.
I do not own a pistol with an LCI, and that is by design.

I do not load-and-unload my carry firearm. It is loaded, it stays loaded and I do not perform "administrative handling".

If it is empty I have shot it dry...in which case I reload.
The other time is if I am cleaning it.

Last edited by orionengnr; June 11, 2011 at 10:10 PM.
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Old June 11, 2011, 09:59 PM   #15
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I'm not sure how often LCI's might stick (the mechanical variety), but I'm not sure I'd want to place 100% faith in them.

(I have LCI's on my PX4 pistols, but still tend to do press-checks.)

The only LCI I find myself paying any attention to is on the S&W M&P9, and that's because it's a hole over the back part of the chamber. You can actually see cartridge brass. (Not useful as a tactile check, though.)
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:24 PM   #16
RedNeckChris
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Visual and tactile checks I trust. Memory? Of course I think I remember, but there is a rule about treating all guns as loaded for a reason.
If you're so paranoid you won't even trust your own memory to tell you the current condition of the chamber, why would you trust your eyes and/or fingertip? And after performing a check, you immediately begin relying on your memory anyway. You have to "remember" whether you saw/felt a round in there right? If you can't remember from moment to moment what you saw, maybe you should use an LCI.

Safety checks aren't what we're discussing here right? I think what countzero meant was do you practice feeling for the indicator so that if ever confronted with a situation (such as nighttime intruder) where you need to use your pistol in the dark and don't know what condition it's in, you'll be able to discreetly find out without making any noise or otherwise alerting the BG. That's the only possible situation I can think of when an indicator might be useful. And in that case, visual and/or tactile checks (press checks ETC.) aren't appropriate (or necessary I would hope). If you feel like you can go ahead and open the slide to feel around for bullets without putting yourself in more danger, than by all means...feel away. Hell, why stop there? Why not go ahead and give that thing a good cleaning and lube job while you're at it to make sure everything's gonna' function smoothly. But assuming you need to be as quiet and sneaky as possible to avoid getting shot at, maybe it would be better to know ahead of time what you have in your hand.

In any case, the whole thing's a hopeless situation for lots of reasons. If you don't know whether the chamber's empty or loaded, how can you be sure the magazine's loaded. Or if you even have a magazine inserted. How can you be sure you don't have the action/trigger locked? Or that the you're even holding a real gun for that matter?

But assuming you're crafty enough to know the condition of the magazine well, the magazine, the action/trigger lock and whether your gun is real or not, you're probably also going to know whether you need to rack the slide or not. And if you're serious about self defense and have no kids or other irresponsible people around, I would hope your bedside protection is in ready-to-rock mode. If, on the other hand, you have kids/knuckleheads living with you, I would hope you need to do more than just rack the slide to get your pistol ready for action. Things like: opening the safe or unlocking the action/trigger.

Putting aside things like "always assume it's loaded" and "check the chamber then check it again" Etc., who here doesn't know the EXACT condition of every gun in your collection?

I own several long guns, four revolvers and two pistols. The long guns are all unloaded and locked up. Three of my four revolvers and one pistol are also unloaded and locked. My stainless S&W is currently loaded with 6 Hydroshocks, unlocked and ready to go in my nightstand. My .45 is on my hip, action unlocked, fully loaded (including the chamber), and ready to go with just a flick of the safety. I bet most people on this forum could state the current condition of every firearm they own. And nobody would have to look at any indicators or open any actions. God! At least I hope so.
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Old June 11, 2011, 10:43 PM   #17
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If Im carrying it then its loaded, if Im not then its locked up..
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Old June 12, 2011, 05:18 AM   #18
RedNeckChris
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If my handgun is on me for carry purposes, I loaded it before I started. (I always silently - at least quietly - sigh when TV shows or movies have the 'entry team' stop just outside a doorway and check guns. This is NOT the time!)
That's what I'm talkin' about!

Screw last minute press checks and visual/tactile LCI's. Your brain, when used properly, is the only thing you need to ascertain the condition of your weapon.

Using the controversial "remembering what the hell you've done today" method (along with some basic gun safety) is an absolutely fail-safe way to ensure you don't shoot yourself in the groin or make clicking noises when you should be making BANG-BANG noises.
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Old June 12, 2011, 10:24 AM   #19
TailGator
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I'm thinking more in terms of using the loaded chamber indicator to verify that you have a round in the chamber, like when you hear something in the middle of the night and you think you're going to have to arm yourself...
In that sort of situation, I know a round is chambered because a round is always chambered. There is value in having routines and always keeping a defensive firearm in the same status, whether that status is chambered or unchambered. That, to me, is more reliable than relying on what is, to me, the subtle change in the LCI on my defensive pistol.
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Old June 12, 2011, 02:12 PM   #20
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For the people who say, "I always carry chambered," that's great.

I wish I could agree with you, but unfortunately I can't say I always carry chambered. I have friends in similar circumstances.

Pilots who carry (contractors, FFDO's, etc) may have restrictions against having a chambered round while in the aircraft.

Some security departments have mandated chamber-empty carry.

On my own time, I carry chambered, or I carry revolvers. But my habit patterns have been muddled due to work.

On a separate note, the first guy who taught me to do press-checks was a USMC GySgt, who was the firearms instructor for a Navy security department I was briefly attached to, a couple decades ago. If Marines do press-checks, I'd think they'd be good enough for RedNeckChris, but maybe those Marines are pansies....
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Old June 12, 2011, 06:30 PM   #21
JerryM
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No, I keep them loaded unless in the safe, and even then I leave some loaded instead of having to cycle ammo. I always have a sticky sign in the case that says, "LOADED."

I would hate to think I would hear something in the night and have to wonder if my gun was loaded.
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Old June 12, 2011, 07:34 PM   #22
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No. But I incidentally don't have a pistol equipped with an LCI. Not purposely, that's just the way it's worked out.

I guess it's nice if your pistol has one, but I think if you keep a pistol for defense, you really need to know if it's loaded or not. If your routine is so sloppy you don't know if your pistol is loaded, that's not what an LCI is for and I don't know how much it will help you, or if you even have any business with a pistol at all.

I think the primary purpose of an LCI is a (hopefully) cheap feature to keep lawyers happy more so than for any intrinsic safety purpose.
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Old June 12, 2011, 07:50 PM   #23
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My gun's LCI is a tiny slot in the barrel hood: can't feel anything through that.

My $.02: If I am unsure if my gun is loaded (maybe I just woke up from sleepwalking or I just took it back from a space alien, or something equally likely ........ then I'd do a mag change and a modified press check........
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Old June 12, 2011, 09:26 PM   #24
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nah, I dont really trust it and would rather not rely on them.
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Old June 12, 2011, 10:25 PM   #25
ClydeFrog
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"artistic license"....

In the entertainment industry it's called; "artistic license" or "suspended disbelief".

In many film-TV productions, directors/producers/actors/prop masters etc use different methods to propel the story or heighten the drama. Sound FX, CGI(computer images), prop or fake guns, lighting, etc all add to the final scene.
If you ever saw a action or police film/tv production you know there are a lot of complex factors involved.
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