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Old June 10, 2011, 05:08 PM   #1
270
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Sear for pre-64 model 94 Winchester

I have two sears from Numrich gun parts for my pre-64 model 94 Winchester. Both have the same portion of the lip (the part that fits to hammer notch) missing. Is this how they made some of them? I complained about this and they sent me another with same portion of "lip" missing.

Seen this sear at another gun parts site and it's lip ran all the way across with no portion missing on one side.

I need to know if these sears are O.K. before I can assemble the gun.

Also be nice to know the depth of the hardness at the lip so I won't hone to soft metal during fit-up.

270
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Old June 11, 2011, 09:09 AM   #2
Unclenick
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What you call the lip that catches a hammer notch is normally referred to as the nose of a sear. If it is interrupted, it would only be to clear something during operation. You'd want to look for that. If you don't have such potential interference, then it is likely you have an aftermarket replacement part that was made to work on more than one version or model. A photo would help so someone who does work on your model can tell if it's a match.

I've never torn down your particular model rifle, but if a full width nose is available and it fits and operates properly, it will make it easier to get a good trigger job. Depth of the case depends on how the case hardening was done and how long it was in the oven. I wouldn't count on more than a few thousandths. Five maybe. Not for aggressive stoning.
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Old June 12, 2011, 02:59 PM   #3
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Sear for pre-64 model 94 Winchester

Unclenick,

Thanks for your good response.

Regarding depth of case hardening of sear nose: From what you say--and the safest approach--will be to install new sear WITHOUT any honing at all and then go very easy with it if needed. I know keeping the nose straight is a problem and a must do. I also expect maintaining the original angle of the nose is important.

I'll be happy with 3-4 lbs pull weight.

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Old June 12, 2011, 03:31 PM   #4
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That notch in the sear is for the new and more positive trigger stop (the little arm that the lever pushes up to make sure the lever is fully closed before the gun can fire). The sear with the notch should work OK in the older guns, but not vice versa.

I can only suggest that 3-4 pounds might be too little for a 94. Unlike bolt rifles, that pull has to be enough that the sear will clear the half-cock notch, otherwise the sear will be ruined in short order. In my experience, you will need 5+ pounds at least to do that reliably.

Jim
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Old June 12, 2011, 03:39 PM   #5
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If you use the fine ceramic stones sold for by Brownells or those sold for final knife sharpening, it will take awhile to cut too deep, and you will be able to polish the surfaces long before then. Even one thousandth off will usually remove most tool marks. It's only changes of engagement angle that start to eat into the case much. Given Jim's information, you want to start with the factory angle and polish, then see if any actual changes are needed.

If you don't have sear and hammer jigs to help with alignment, figure to spend some extra time coloring the sear with high spot blue or a dry erase marker whose color you can see, assembling and snapping to rub the color off at the high spots. Then you stone leaning on the high side, repeating until it makes even contact. With small triangle stones you can even work it like scraping, touching only the high spots themselves until contact is even. It is common for hard engagements not to be mating all the way across.
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Old June 12, 2011, 10:38 PM   #6
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Sear for pre-64 model 94 Winchester

Unclenick & Jim,

Thank you both for your very helpful advice.

I initially told a little fib in that my gun is really a used model 64 made in 1941 but I know this makes no difference. I thought more people could relate to the model 94. Sure like this gun.

There is one other aspect to this job and that has to do with the hammer full-cock notch. Not sure if it's been tampered with or not. If it has then I may have additional problems. Hate to replace this hammer in that it has the old style checkering rather than the serrations of the newer ones. May be forced to have a good gunsmith build-up this notch with weld or buy another old style hammer and pay a pretty penny for it.

We'll see.

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Old June 15, 2011, 11:51 AM   #7
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Sear for pre-64 model 94 Winchester

Got the gun back together and now have a trigger pull around 10 1/2 lbs.

Am now at what they call "Where the rubber meets the road." That is doing a good job on the nose of that sear. I have a Brownells fine India stone and tried to smooth the sear nose but noticed I was having trouble doing it accurately so quit and assembled gun.

How does a gunsmith do a neat job on the nose, maintaining the correct angle and keeping it straight across? It's very difficult to avoid "rocking" the stone and thus lose the straight nose and proper angle. It's hard to see well enough even with my 2x magnifying glasses plus my eye glasses.

I would think a small milling machine with machinest vice and dial indicator would be the best way to do a perfect job on the nose.

I can see why many would say--let a good gunsmith do that job. My experience with gunsmiths has not been very good.

I was really surprised when, after assembly,the hammer would not stay back on full cock when pulled back with my thumb but would stay back when I worked the lever and bolt. I backed-off on the hammer spring tensioning screw and problem fixed. I hardly have any tension or pressure on this screw now and still the hammer pulls back pretty hard. Harder than my Browning 1886 SRC. The tension screw was also causing it to lever harder than normal.

I believe this 1886 may have a coil hammer spring rather than a flat one. This could cause a different feel when cocking.

I've shot the gun 12 time since assembling it. Working fine except for extra hard trigger pull. It and my Browning 1886 are both great for a quick sight picture. Bring them to shoulder, cheek weld and you're on.

Seems I read somewhere that you can remove a little metal from the hammer spring to lighten pull. Expect this is a good way to ruin the spring unless you do it right. Doing it right, I would think, means you remove metal from a large area of spring and not just one small area. Weaken one small area and spring would be much more apt to break. Too, you might weaken it to where firing pin does not hit primer with enough force.

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Last edited by 270; June 16, 2011 at 11:43 PM.
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Old June 15, 2011, 03:20 PM   #8
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Gunsmiths use jigs to cut the angles accurately. Otherwise, you will have failure to stay cocked, fall-off, or very heavy trigger pull, the exact issues you are experiencing.
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