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Old January 26, 2009, 11:54 AM   #1
jg0001
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New Jersey and Hollowpoints --- clarification, please

Anyone know enough about NJ law on HOLLOWPOINTS?

For a while, I thought they were fully illegal, I was wrong.

My local range/gunshop told me the following:
"they are okay if you have them at home, but not okay to carry, even if you have a permit, even if you are a retired cop... and they make any illegal activity even moreso if you have hollowpoints at the time of the crime"

However, another NJ gun shop owner sold only the dum-dum style of mushrooming bullets (i.e. not hollow point).

I take this to mean you can use them in home defense but unless you are an active duty cop, keep them at home. I'm not even sure I can legally shoot them at the range, even though they sell it.

The NRA-ILA summary for NJ says:
Quote:
"It is unlawful to knowingly have in one's possession ''any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet." Nothing in this prohibition shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, or while engaged in activities covered by paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 above under the Exceptions to the Permit to Carry or FID requirement."
[though it is not clear what paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 actually are...]
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:04 PM   #2
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you can't own it at all was what it looked like to me
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:11 PM   #3
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would federal expanding full metal jacket (efmj) rounds be considered dum dum rounds? you can own them, it says so right below the previously quoted paragraph.

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and (c) is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.


(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

Straight from the NJ legislature page.

Its funny too, if you read the top part carefully, it sounds like the idiots who made Hollowpoints illegal, did so thinking that they could pierce body armor! Proves that politicians know nothing about guns.

Last edited by Cerick; January 26, 2009 at 12:17 PM.
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:22 PM   #4
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From the way I read it, it sounds like a regular Joe can own this ammo but only keep it at home -- no comment about using it at a range or for hunting is made (we can assume someone who at least has a NJ Firearms Purchaser ID Card, which is required to buy any gun in NJ). Is it also suggesting that my name & residence be recorded when I make such a purchase -- but I don't think my local shop was going to do so when and if I did buy it.

That said, my gun shop does sell hollowpoints... it is also heavily frequented by the local police who use the range in the back of the shop. I'm not sure if I could even SHOOT those bullets at the range I buy them at, so so far, I haven't done so. I don't want to be surrounded by cops as I load up my magazines with hollowpoints only to find out I just committed a felony or something by doing so. It's all very confusing.
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
"It is unlawful to knowingly have in one's possession ''any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet."
keeping it at home qualifies as knowingly having in it one's possession
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:25 PM   #6
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alert look at subsection f
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:27 PM   #7
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I'm 95% sure you can hunt with hollowpoints in NJ. I do.
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:35 PM   #8
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I wouldn't want to take a chance of going to jail while the arresting officer's dept double checks with the prosecutor's office
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Old January 26, 2009, 02:08 PM   #9
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I found this when googling the same question ("are hollowpoint bullets legal in New Jersey")...

mind you, it's only a googl'y searched answer, but it at least conforms to exactly what was told me by the gunshop:

Quote:
The State of New Jersey does ban hollow-point ammunition -- sort of. It's legal to purchase it, bring it home, take it to the range and practice with it, bring any extra back home, etc. What isn't legal is for any of the very, very few individuals who hold carry permits in the state to carry firearms loaded with hollow points. Retired police officers (who are the only people who are routinely issued carry permits) cannot carry hollow points. Obviously, this means that they are carrying ammunition more likely to overpenetrate (and hit the baby carriage on the next block, for example.) Active police officers use hollow points on patrol, just as most police officers elsewhere do.

The ban may exist because the state legislature was confused about the difference between hollow point ammunition and armor-piercing ammunition. There is precedent for this thinking: the legislature banned slingshots. They thought that the language in the bill banning slungshots was a misspelling, so they corrected it, making Dennis the Menace into a felon.

Hollow points are on people's minds at least partially because they were featured in the Sopranos episode two weeks ago. There was lengthy discussion of the illegality of the hollow points, but it did not make clear that it was a law unique to New Jersey.
I feel better at least hearing it from a second source. I just wish the law itself was easier to read, given the ramifications of being wrong.
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Old January 26, 2009, 03:18 PM   #10
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Another post I found on the same lookup resulted in the below.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable with regards to HUNTING in New Jersey could verify if this is indeed correct. If so, it would practically assure us that hollowpoints are legal -- how could they be required and illegal at the same time?

Quote:
Hollow points are REQUIRED by every states Game Commisions for hunting ammunition. This is to reduced the possibility of wounded animals crawling off into to bush to die slowly and painfully. Hunters want clean, one-shot kills, both for it's merciful and practical aspects: nobody wants the animal to suffer, and they'd rather not chase it.
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Old February 2, 2009, 03:07 PM   #11
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I couldn't find anything on the 'net regarding hollow points and hunting in New Jersey... anyone a hunter in NJ that can speak to this?
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Old February 2, 2009, 04:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Hollow points are REQUIRED by every states Game Commisions for hunting ammunition. This is to reduced the possibility of wounded animals crawling off into to bush to die slowly and painfully. Hunters want clean, one-shot kills, both for it's merciful and practical aspects: nobody wants the animal to suffer, and they'd rather not chase it.
Untrue. Many states ban FMJ ammunition for hunting but few if any mandate hollow points. For example here in California we have a choice between pretty much any non-FMJ bullet configuration. The exception is that lead is banned anyplace that it might offend a condor.

Most people here hunt with soft points.
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:17 PM   #13
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Law Enforcement Officers Safety Improvement Act

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Improvement Act, signed into Law on, Oct. 12, 2010 ammends HR 218 LEOSA of 2004. The new law includes the carry of ammunition "not expressly prohibited by Federal Law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act." Federally legal ammunition such as hollow-point bullets, can be carried where state law would normally prohibit it. (i.e. New Jersey). Reference PA FOP and the New York PBA.

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Retired Officer In Charge of a PA Borough P.D.

Last edited by lawman28; March 17, 2013 at 05:23 PM. Reason: add info
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:12 PM   #14
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Intersting to see this thread re-emerge. So now retired LEOs can carry hollowpoints. And hollowpoints are legal for hunting-only handgun ammo is banned. The funniest part to me was the reference to "dum-dum" bullets. The true "dum-dums" were actually soft lead rifle rounds produced by a factory in Dumdum India for the British military--lead rounds that would of course mushroom on impact. The term was later applied colloquially to all soft lead rifle ammo that was banned by international convention because of the extensive damage such rounds do to flesh--and also because in an era of high velocity rounds they were obsolete anyway. They are not "armor piercing" rounds. So I must wonder, does NJ, under this law, purport to ban Minie balls too? What about hqand cast lead rounds? (I am being facetious--no soft lead round will meet the hardness spec in the statute. But a brass solid round would.)
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:44 PM   #15
diamondd817
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I live in NJ and have been down this road several times.

Here is the scoop on hollowpoints in NJ.

1. Legal to posses and use in self defense inside of ones home.

2. Legal to posses and transport for use at the range.

3. If you are retired NJ leo or have a NJ carry permit (whatever that is) it is illegal for you to use hollowpoints outside your home.

4. If you move from one place to another there is no exemption to allow you to transport your hollow points to your new home. You have to leave them with the your old homes new occupant. Yes, this sounds crazy but there was a case argued by Evan Nappen for someone who was arrested for just this.

5. Using hollowpoints in the commision of a crime in NJ is an added offense.

6. Don't leave any hollowpoints rolling around on the floor of your car when not in route to or from the range. Even just the bullet itself without the casing is a crime outside of the to and from range exemption.

Last edited by diamondd817; March 17, 2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:03 AM   #16
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NJ hollowpoint ammunition law(s)....

I'm not a resident of the Garden State & I'm not from NJ but to my knowledge, you can legally own/shoot JHPs on your own property or possess them in your home or apt, you can NOT carry them for defense or transport them in your vehicle(property).

I'd get a Corbon PowRball or milspec FMJ. The Federal Guard Dog is a poor choice. See www.youtube.com .

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Old March 19, 2013, 09:31 AM   #17
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What Diamondd817 is 100% correct, as far as I know.

I guess if you move and have hollow point ammunition you have to drive from your old house to your range, and then drive to your new home -- then I guess you are in the clear.

The hollow point law in our People's Republic of NJ is yet another example of the stupidity of our laws. Either make it legal or make it illegal, what we have now is just stupid. It will not stop criminals and just sets traps for other wise law abiding citizens to potentially fall into. Stupid!
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:01 AM   #18
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I often get the feeling that our firearm laws in this great state are designed so that you are almost always at risk of some type of an offense. Rarely enforced unless you are committing a primary crime. The problem IMO arises when you have a LEO with a bad day and they want to charge someone for something. I do my best to stay within our Firearm laws, however on almost any given day im sure a LEO could make a case. The way I read the law is that HP's are legal as long as you are not using them to commit a crime.
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:05 AM   #19
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Some time ago I read that they're legal for hunting. Hunting for what, I don't know. NJ is pretty much a shotgun state except for small caliber for varmints. (I don't feel like looking it up right now.)
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Old June 2, 2014, 02:50 PM   #20
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Stupid NJ ammo law

Ref comment from diamondd817
"4. If you move from one place to another there is no exemption to allow you to transport your hollow points to your new home. You have to leave them with the your old homes new occupant. Yes, this sounds crazy but there was a case argued by Evan Nappen for someone who was arrested for just this."

OK, so could you take the ammo to the range. Have them hold it for you until your address change shows on your drivers license and then retrieve it to your new address? Or is that just too ridiculous?
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