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Old May 28, 2011, 01:07 AM   #1
TheKlawMan
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12 Gauge Loads for Clays

Is a reduction in flinching one reason for shooting lighter target loads? While I will noticibly buck one in 50 or so shots, I wonder how many are spoiled by less noticeable flinching.
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Old May 28, 2011, 07:16 AM   #2
clemsonbloz
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most people who shoot seriously use as much load as they can per the rules..

They might shoot 7/8 loads trying to simulate a 20 gauge incase they shoot sub gauge levels
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Old May 28, 2011, 07:55 AM   #3
l98ster
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I shoot all types of clay games. I have been doing it for a long time, and am pretty good.

It all depends on the clay game that you are shooting.

For example, I find that in American Skeet, I use 1oz loads moving about 1145FPS. This is a very light load, and very effective for the relatively slow moving clays.

For international skeet, I am using 7/8oz loads at about 1300fps. The clays move faster, so naturally my shot needs to move faster to keep the same lead for both american and international.

If you do not load your own shells, I found that Remington STS work very well. A lesser budget would dictate the bulk pack at walmart, but they definitly kick harder!!

Asa far as the flinching goes, I would use that excuse to practice a lot more. With enough practice, you wont even blink your eyes when the shot breaks!!

-George
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Old May 28, 2011, 10:44 AM   #4
oneounceload
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There isn't a clay target out there in any of the games that can't be broken with a light 7/8oz load running no more than 1200 fps. In fact, a nice 12 gauge 3/4oz load works well in O/U for all but the furthest targets in FITASC
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Old May 28, 2011, 01:55 PM   #5
TheKlawMan
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Thanks to all. Believe me I have plenty of excuses for missing targets but hopefully will have less after this coming week when I am taking my first individual lesson. As oneounce has probably guessed, I overthink everything.

Now you have done it, George, and I will just have to drive out to the range today and blow some more holes in the sky.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; May 28, 2011 at 02:03 PM.
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Old May 28, 2011, 02:27 PM   #6
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Chuck Hawks on Flinching

FWIW, I found this article by Chuck Hawks on flinching. I fell less dirty after reading it. Yes, I am a flincher. http://www.chuckhawks.com/column6_flinching.htm
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Old May 28, 2011, 02:57 PM   #7
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Klaw... To determine how badly a person (me usually) is getting with the flinch factor... Me and buddies would get together and just shoot cans or whatever or get out the hand slinger and a box of dirt doves.

Loading any number of shells into each other's guns and at any random sequence, we would insert an empty in the mag tube or for break barrel, right into the chamber.

Man what a funny hoot it is, as well as very telling, to see a buddy scrunch all up at the sound of a benign "CLICK"...

I had a buddy that was trying to defeat the recoil that he would actually push the gun forward at the time he pulled the trigger.

He also was one guy who always complained about getting banged up in the shoulder... It was an animated move and it looked even funnier when there was no recoil actinag against him.

Brent
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Old May 28, 2011, 03:35 PM   #8
TheKlawMan
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Hi hotdog. I like the idea of shooting the cans if I first get to empty the beer. I don't think I have a flinching problem, but that is for the insructor to say this coming week. I am finally breaking down and getting some lessons.

I found another interesting article on line from Bruce Buck, the technoid. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/35059395...hotgun-guru-my

I may have it wrong, but if that is developing into a problem, it doesn't appear one that you can just shoot through. If it isn't a problem, yet, I don't want it.

I do know that when I first started shooting this past January, I knocked the heckout of my shoulder. I think I have cured what caused that, which basically was holding the stock to far out on the shoulder and outside of the pocket, but who knows.

As I am also thinking about a second gun, it would be nice to know if I have a flinching issue since a semi can sometimes be the cure whereas I understande that an o/u tends to have more of a kick.

The way you described your buddy pushing the gun forward is what I seem to be doing perhaps 1 in 50 times, but an instructor may say that I am doing it more than I realize.
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Old May 28, 2011, 04:03 PM   #9
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TKM, I shoot with Bruce; he has knowledge about guns and shooting I can't even fathom to know. He was an alternate for the US Olympic skeet team many years ago and would up coaching many of them. Heed his words on subjects like this..........

Good luck and stop worrying about recoil
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Old May 28, 2011, 04:47 PM   #10
TheKlawMan
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Thanks, oneounce. I already have a plan to deal with flinching. Just as I am ready to shoot, I visualize a hot looking woman. That should be easy. Actually, the problem may ber that I am doing that all the time.
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Old May 28, 2011, 04:51 PM   #11
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Klaw... just to be clear.. what Imention does nothing to clear up the issue... just points it out.


I still find myself flinching some times but usually it happens most when I spend a bit of time with the gun in mounted position before firing, like aiming it like a rifle for 65 yard slug practice.

Brent
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Old May 28, 2011, 05:26 PM   #12
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The heaviest load in a 12ga I ever use is 1 oz of shot at 1225 fps ....and it doesn't matter if I'm shooting sporting clays or Trap singles ...or continental trap ....and I load 8's exclusively in a 12ga. I understand OneOunces approach / and he's right - even my loads are heavier than they need to be / but I can't be bothered to set up my 12ga loader with a different recipe ?? ...... and honestly, most of the time these days, I shoot a 20ga in 12ga events ( with 7/8 oz at 1200 fps anyway ) .....but shooting 1 1/8 loads even at 1200 fps is absurd / and a shell like the Remington Nitro Handicap 1 1/8 oz at 1300 fps ....will certainly make me flinch.

Flinching is an interesting issue.... The effect of Recoil - is cumulative ...so if you're shooting a tournament - where you might shoot 250 shells or more in one day ...( the fatigue / and the recoil ) can be causing some flinching by the middle of the day.... Lighter loads will help ..

Another issue that causes flinching - is bad eyes ( target blurrs out ) ...or looking at the barrel ...and all of that stuff is a flinch too. I think bad eyesight / wrong color of lenses / bad background --- will cause me to flinch big time !!! Gun fit - can be part of the issue too ...if you're all scrunched up / or just not comfortable on the gun ...it causes some flinches and some really ugly swings ....
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Old May 28, 2011, 07:01 PM   #13
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Flinch control is just one reason for reducing loads. It's the cheapest way to recoil recoil, but you're handicapping yourself. As my friend Big Jim opined, a light load will break a target, but he neglected to mention that a full load will break it better. Most competitors use the maximum amount of shot allowed.

Kick and flinching can be a problem for some. I know several competitors who have a higher average with a 20-ga than a 12-ga. This is usually because they are shooting an unaltered gun. Some folks can wear clothes right off of the rack and others need theirs altered -- the same goes for shotguns.

I can shoot my main comp guns all day without any ill effects. Yet, this was not the case when they were new, they beat me up. I tried it all with my guns: hi-tech recoil pads, longer forcing cones, over-bored barrels, porting, mercury filled recoil reducers, slower burning powders, and sissy loads. Each made some degree of difference; but, for a quantum reduction in recoil, a proper fitting stock with a recoil reduction device is hard to beat. With a JS system on my Skeet gun, and a Shockmaster on my trap gun, my 12s shoot flinch-free. YMMV.

Using reduced loads, or a smaller gauge, can be a practice aid that helps you get bettered centered on the targets. Most of my practice rounds are with small gauge rounds. Another reason to use reduced loads is for quicker acquisition of a subsequent shot. In doubles events, I use a lighter load for the first shot and a standard load for the second target.

Using reduced loads is more economical for the loader. If you're a reloader, you know the most expensive component is lead, be it in slugs or shot. If you shoot factory reduced loads, you're giving the factory more profit.
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Old May 28, 2011, 07:41 PM   #14
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OK. I think I am getting the picture. First. ala one ounce I shouldn't be too concerned with this; at least until I have a lesson or two and the instructor has had an opportunity to see what is up. Second, if flinching is becoming an issue, the most fundamental cause goes back to gun fit which interacts with mounting. Third, I believe I am mouning the gun properly, but if I am not I will be pleased to learn where I am wrong. Last, going to lighter loads can serve as first aid for flinching, and shooting them can sharpen skills, but it is anyrhing but the preferred cure.

Truth be told, when I first began shooting and Zippy suggested one of those recoil devices I thought he was over the top. Now I see their merit. Not only do they absorb recoil but they allow for better fitting to the shooter.

BigJim brought up vision, while I was having a problem with it when I began shooting (it was nearly impossible to see through the top of my lenses) it has become much less of a factor. Perhaps partly due to a nose piece being replaced that I didn't even realize was damaged, and hopefully due in part to assuming a better mount.

Hopefully much of this will gel with some lessons. I think it will almost like an epiphany.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; May 28, 2011 at 07:52 PM.
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Old May 28, 2011, 07:47 PM   #15
hoytinak
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Make sure the shotgun fits you....If it fits properly, it'll have less felt recoil with in turn lwill lead to less flinching.
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Old May 28, 2011, 08:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
There isn't a clay target out there in any of the games that can't be broken with a light 7/8oz load running no more than 1200 fps. In fact, a nice 12 gauge 3/4oz load works well in O/U for all but the furthest targets in FITASC
This. I run a pretty light 7/8 ounce load (about 16.3 grains or so of Clay Dot, IIRC). In my Citori it is very easy on the shooter. It isn't just that you aren't inflicting a flinch, but that if you are shooting more than 2-3 rounds, lighter loads are FAR less fatiguing. I get more exhausted shooting 2 rounds of skeet with 1 1/8 ounce loads moving at 1200fps out of my automatic than I get shooting four rounds of my load out of my O/U.

Lighter loads are also more economical- chopping a quarter ounce off the payload means that increasingly more expensive bag of magnum shot goes a bit further. Ditto a few grains less of powder. We aren't talking a huge amount, but if you're shooting a bunch, it DOES add up.

IMO, there's not much point in reloading if you aren't using light loads. The full power loads can be had for not much at all, and there's no worries about collecting hulls or spending time on the press. If you want to go lighter, though, you almost have to reload- finding commercially produced light loads can run at least $7/box, if not closer to $10.
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Old May 28, 2011, 09:47 PM   #17
TheKlawMan
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I hear you Technosavant. Earlier, I was about to pull the pin on some simple reloading equipment, but when I seemed to get over my recoil sensitivity I saw no point in not shooting the cheap Wall Mart stuff. Should it turn out that I need to resort to light loads, I think that I can find space in my garage for an MEC Jr 600. The price where I am at in Orange County, CA, for a box of Winchester AA Ultra Lites is $10 or $11; more than double the Wal Mart Federals.

I also find mention of fatigue after 2 or 3 rounds to be comforting. Here I thought it was just me and that was a wimp. Last time out was the first day I shot 4 rounds.

While I will never have the expense of shooting as much as the dedicated/competive shooters, I can see where the savings from reloaidng can pay for a nice little gun. (There are the savings on ammo as well as savings from potential repetitive trauma and related medical care.)

Last edited by TheKlawMan; May 28, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
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Old May 28, 2011, 10:00 PM   #18
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TKM - I can reload 3/4 oz or 7/8 oz reloads, using clone wads and reclaimed shot for about $3.50 per box. Besides the cost savings, it is the recoil reduction i value. While many shoot full power loads, I have seen many start to tire at the end and that fatigue can cost as many targets or more, than the lighter loads being used through out the competition - this is especially when you are talking about 100 to 400 rounds in the shoot
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Old May 29, 2011, 09:32 AM   #19
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I shoot 7/8 oz loads for everything, except handicap trap which I shoot very little. I load a Claybuster copy of the WAA12L, over Hogdon Clays or Tightwad in a once fired Gun Club hull for about $3-3.50 a box depending on the price of shot. They cycle reliably through of my Beretta auto's. Thats the only way I my two sons and I can afford to shoot as much as we do.
I even use my reloads to dove hunt with. 7/8 oz of 7.5 or 8's out of a skeet or light mod choke kills them cleanly.
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:19 AM   #20
TheKlawMan
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Okay. I am convinced that I should get a reloader. I wonder how one would go over as a college graduation present for my son?
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:30 AM   #21
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AWESOME PRESENT!!!

They won't work a crap if dirty and grimey so if you keep it clean... He will be glad!

Brent
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Old May 29, 2011, 05:53 PM   #22
BigJimP
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Oh come on, be a man,,,,,buy it for your wife as a present ...and make sure she does a good job on those reloads....

There is only one little thing ....be sure and round over those square edges - so when she shoves it up your but_, it won't hurt so much ....

Seriously, even with a 12ga - a reloaded like the MEC Grabber model - will easily load 8 boxes an hour ...and pay for itself in savings, easily within a yr...even if you average 4 boxes a week is all..../ but most of us reload so we can customize our shells - not just to save money. It becomes another part of the hobby --- and if I couldn't reload / I'd miss it a lot. !!
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Old May 29, 2011, 08:56 PM   #23
TheKlawMan
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Shhhh, BigJim. Let's not talk about fantasies, especially when my wife has been back in South Carolina since Monday.
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Old May 30, 2011, 11:05 AM   #24
BigJimP
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Ok, I apologize ....
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Old May 30, 2011, 02:09 PM   #25
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Wouldn't a new loader make a wonderful surprise upon her return?
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