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Old May 18, 2011, 02:30 PM   #1
shooter970
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L7A1 in a 1911?????

I just got two cases of the L7A1 9mm NATO ammo and I says not to use it in pistols only sub guns. Has anyone ever tried it in a good 1911? I have 2400 rounds of this stuff.
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Old May 18, 2011, 02:51 PM   #2
Marco Califo
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L7A1 9mm +P+

This is hot 9mm NATO sub-gun ammo made by Hirtenberger L7A1 (SP?) in Austria. I shoot this in my Glock after confirming with Glockmeister.com that it was safe. I can not say whether or not it is safe in a 1911. Glocks are relatively strong 9mm's.

Do a Google search on L7A1 and you will see that BATF warns against it. This appeared in a THR post:

"I know that the L7A1 can be bad news.... For example I sure wouldn't shoot it in a Beretta 92.

'Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320.' "

The Beretta Brigadier owes its existence to this ammo. It was designed to solve the problem of cracked critical parts (frames, etc.) in military 9mm that were happening because military personnel were disregarding the warning you mention.

Use at you own risk. Or, get a sub-gun to shoot it in.
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:15 PM   #3
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Ive shot a lot of SMG marked ammo over the years, and some were hot, while others arent really werent. Its hard to say just what you have until you shoot it.

A lot of it was corrosive too.

This is the result of some Spaniush SMG marked ammo I had (actually still do have a few boxes) and used in my MAC back in the 80's. Took less than 2000 rounds to wreck the upper tube.



Same gun with new upper (old one above) which has been fine since it replaced the old one, and now has 25+ years of steady use, and many tens of thousands of rounds of surplus military and commercial ammo through it, without a hitch.



Maybe its time for a 9mm carbine or SMG.
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:33 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info guess I'll put it up for sale.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:03 PM   #5
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shoot it!
the nato 9mm is 10% hotter than "normal" 9mm rounds. a little more push to cycle the smg. if your gun can handle +p then nato rounds are no problem.
i've shot thousands of rounds of winchester 9mm nato in everything from my colt AR to the kahr pm9 without any problems.
i haven't bought any in two years, still have 2000 rounds, but it used to be a lot cheaper to buy in bulk than commercial rounds.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:08 PM   #6
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I'm not going to use this ammo in my gun I'll pass it on to someone with a smg.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
the nato 9mm is 10% hotter than "normal" 9mm rounds.
The normal NATO stuff really isnt all that hot, and is fine in most handguns, some of the "SMG only" marked stuff isnt, and its marked that way for a reason.

The difference between the two when shot out of a gun like the MAC, is instantly noticeable. The rate of fire goes way up, and those skinny wire type stocks really wear into your cheek and leave a crease. It is a fun ride while it lasts though.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:48 PM   #8
balance
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I've heard that some SMG ammo operates at the same pressure as 9mm proof loads, so I would be hesitant to use it in my pistol.

Why risk it?
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Old May 18, 2011, 05:26 PM   #9
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That's my position aswell why risk it!
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Old May 18, 2011, 06:21 PM   #10
Marco Califo
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Quote:
shoot it!
the nato 9mm is 10% hotter than "normal" 9mm rounds. a little more push to cycle the smg. if your gun can handle +p then nato rounds are no problem.
i've shot thousands of rounds of winchester 9mm nato in everything from my colt AR to the kahr pm9 without any problems.
i haven't bought any in two years, still have 2000 rounds, but it used to be a lot cheaper to buy in bulk than commercial rounds.
Excuse me but this post is wrong and dangerous. The OP is quite specific about NATO SMG ammo, and its L7A1 designation. http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...4&d=1304887046 This is ABSOLUTELY NOT "Winchester NATO 9mm" (whatever they are selling under that marketing label). It was a special lot of sub-machine-gun ammo produced under military contract for adverse conditions. The specs on this stuff are NOT interchangeable with ordinary NATO 9mm intended for handguns.

Last edited by Marco Califo; May 18, 2011 at 07:24 PM.
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Old May 18, 2011, 09:24 PM   #11
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+1 to Marco...

L7A1 should not be used in a handgun... period.

Winchester branded "Nato" 124 gr's are NOT nearly the same thing.
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Old May 19, 2011, 07:19 AM   #12
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Looks like everyone well almost Everyone agrees that this stuff is only good if you have a Uzi or mp5 so I will sell it and buy some regular 9mm ammo. Thanks for all the info guys I learned alot on this thread.
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Old May 19, 2011, 08:51 AM   #13
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Hmmmm

Sounds like a good excuse to pick a MP5!
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Old May 19, 2011, 09:22 AM   #14
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I wouldnt ever shoot any of that stuff out of my MP5. Thats why the MAC took the beating.
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Old May 19, 2011, 12:57 PM   #15
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If you wouldn't use it in an mp5 or a MAC, what SMG could it be used for? I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that in a P89 with a beefed up spring or a 1911 9mm with full chamber support.
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:09 PM   #16
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My guess, since its British, it was meant for the Sterlings. It would probably be fine in any of the heavier built and barreled guns as well.

With what the MP5's and some of the others go for these days, its not worth it. It wasnt worth it when they were $800 either.

Realistically, its not really worth it in any of them if theres a chance at all something might go wrong. Whats the point? Theres plenty of reasonably priced and reliable ammo out there that wont mess up your gun.


I personally wouldnt shoot any of the SMG stuff out of one of my handguns, but if youre up to it, have at it. I already learned my lesson.
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Old May 24, 2011, 05:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Excuse me but this post is wrong and dangerous. The OP is quite specific about NATO SMG ammo, and its L7A1 designation. http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...4&d=1304887046 This is ABSOLUTELY NOT "Winchester NATO 9mm" (whatever they are selling under that marketing label). It was a special lot of sub-machine-gun ammo produced under military contract for adverse conditions. The specs on this stuff are NOT interchangeable with ordinary NATO 9mm intended for handguns.
This same poster has stated a number of times that Buffalo Bore .380 +P in a Sig P238 gives you "9mm ballistic performance," so this isn't the first time he has made confident pronouncements on the basis of seriously and dangerously incorrect information (or wishful thinking).
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Old June 26, 2011, 06:12 PM   #18
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Purchase

I am looking to purchase some L7a1 ammo. I have an uzi and it works great in it. Please let me know if you are interested in selling thanks
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