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Old May 18, 2011, 10:58 AM   #1
C0untZer0
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For people who think shooting perp w/45 auto = game over

I think this debunks the myth that hitting a guy anywhere with a .45 is going to be "game over"

This officer took a .45 - literally took it on the chin, and continued to fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArDR...layer_embedded
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:11 AM   #2
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"freak happinstances" happen...he's super lucky which goes without saying...there have been people who've been shot in the vitals and end up living and its happened with many calibers..kind of points out how the handgun isnt as powerful as many think. I think had it been a much more "potent" centerfire rifle round, things may have turned out much worse.

Last edited by Hunter2678; May 18, 2011 at 11:18 AM.
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:33 AM   #3
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So much for the range as a place to learn to fight.

This guy is a warrior, who had the mindset and the will to live. Wouldn't have mattered if he had a 22 RF. Three shots to the head at close range.

I'm happy that this guy prevailed and was able to articulate the details of a life and death encounter that occured quickly. I apprecaite his account so that the lessons can be learned from someone who has " been and done". His attitude is great. Not a braggart or a blowhard, but the real deal.

Thanks for posting. Eagle
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:52 AM   #4
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I don't think any sensible person thinks it's a guaranteed "lights out" with any particular round. Any given round on any given day could do the job; thankfully, it wasn't his time. A good reminder that the fight is never over, no matter what.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:10 PM   #5
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I think it is cool the dude survived what would have been 'lights out' most of the time; I do not feel the need to go out and replace my 38 or my 357 witha S&W 500; however. No one with any sense would assume that a 45 or even a 50bmg is gonna ensure a stop. It never ceases to amaze me how 'tough' humans can be.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:19 PM   #6
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Amazing, absolutely amazing. My thought was it was a good thing he had 14 rounds to shoot. I was surprised the BG fired 12 .45acp rounds and the Good Guy survived.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:25 PM   #7
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I think I would have entitled the thread, "For People who think shooting a perp in the head = game over..."
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:36 PM   #8
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The officer was wearing body armor - a number of the shots struck his armor. Without that, I'm sure the murdering-shoplifter would have won the fight.

The officer tried to use a Taser first - that was probably his first mistake. The law probably says otherwise, but I think police officers should have the right to shoot to kill if a criminal tries to run away. In fact, I don't even think it should be a right - it should be a requirement. Thankfully, as an ordinary-joe-citizen, I don't have to try and tase a violent criminal. I can simply start pumping lead into an attacker.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:48 PM   #9
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I doubt there are many shoplifters who would run, let alone produce a weapon and start firing on an arresting officer. This was a good cop, who simply wanted to subdue a fleeing suspect without having to resort to using a lethal weapon. If a cop shoots you in the back or even the back of the legs, he should have to 'explain things' I'm not saying the police must allow a fleeing suspect to get a way, but the use of lethal force must be a last resort.
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Old May 18, 2011, 12:50 PM   #10
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I think that myth was debunked decades ago. Some people just like to believe things, facts be damned.
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Old May 18, 2011, 02:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
This officer took a .45 - literally took it on the chin, and continued to fight
Helo pilot in nam took a 50 thru his chin went out the front of his face, he finished his mission, forgot to put the steel plate under his rear....

Gal shot a guy with a 22 he died so what?

Every animal dies its own death, any hunter that has killed large animals know this. Some lay down and die, some fight till every drop of blood is gone. Best remember this if yiou ever shoot someone, dont turn yer back, do not lower your gun, expect him to bounce up and go on the attack again.
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Old May 18, 2011, 02:46 PM   #12
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Nice link... Thanks!
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:36 PM   #13
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The video says the taser malfunctioned. The officer says "normally he'd a given up when I first made contact with him with the taser." I don't know exactly what that means or how the taser failed. If the tazer would have worked it may not have come to a shoot out. Who knows, but the guy would have been too juiced to draw, and if he tried to draw the officer could have zapped him again, (if he even had that kind).

But who knows...
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Helo pilot in nam took a 50 thru his chin went out the front of his face, he finished his mission, forgot to put the steel plate under his rear....
Friendly fire ain't friendly.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:18 PM   #15
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if it happened today, the officer would have been charged with murder for the "3 close quarters shots to the head" on an incapacitated , "misguided youth", who friends and family say was a "kind and gentle boy" who had no opportunity to succeed because of his skin color......
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
if it happened today, the officer would have been charged with murder for the "3 close quarters shots to the head" on an incapacitated , "misguided youth", who friends and family say was a "kind and gentle boy" who had no opportunity to succeed because of his skin color......
jmho
It happened in 2008. Have things changed that much?
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:36 PM   #17
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Here is another twist on the story. Officer Preston sued Taser International Corp, because the Taser allegedly failed.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/20907874/detail.html

I don't know what to think of this lawsuit.

The first thing I thought of is, logically something like this could be extended to gun manufacturers if a gun jammed.

Second, I thought it could be extended to ammo manufacturers if a bullet failed to penetrate / expand, or otherwise incapacitate.

I guess they could also sue the makers of body armor / "bullet proof" vests if those things failed in any way, and they could sue auto makers if the cars failed the officers.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:47 PM   #18
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I think Ayoob covered this incident in his "Ayoob Files" column in American Handgunner not too long ago. That officer is truly tough and truly blessed.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:49 PM   #19
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It's one of our FINEST, The BG was Shoplifting & ran LEO ran after him & The dam PUNK got what he desearved If his family thinks he was a GOOD BOY :barf: Just goes to show he had no respect for athority
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Old May 18, 2011, 07:52 PM   #20
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My sympathy and respect to the officer, he was tough and lucky...

Anyone who wants to take a 45 to the chin is nuts. Good thread but as has been pointed out adnauseum its more about CNS then just caliber...

The mini 9mm is alot less weight and all other things being equaled would have faired no better... And before this becomes a caliber war, the 45 has won the battle between 9mm and 45 acp, you just have to upgrade it a little.

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt460r.htm
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Old May 18, 2011, 08:13 PM   #21
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Joel Abner was using 45 FMJ, you hear so much about how the FMJs over penetrate. I thought getting shot in the chin - the round would would go straight back and penetrate his throat but it deflected and came out his neck. I guess you never can tell what a bullet will do.
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Old May 18, 2011, 09:00 PM   #22
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for people who think you cannot fall 22,000 feet out of a WWII bomber and survive without a parachute

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1071076/posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lJTZUOKLfw

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Old May 18, 2011, 09:09 PM   #23
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Recall another similar case in which a State Trooper got shot in the forehead w/.45hardball, shot back and won.Can't remember too many facts, saw it in a gunrag.
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Old May 18, 2011, 09:22 PM   #24
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First thing is I'm glad that the good guy lived and the bad guy died.

Second is that the bad guy was using FMJ. There's a reason why we carry hollow points in our sidearms.

Third, none of the shots were in the vitals. The chin shot exited before it could do great damage. Every other shot hit body armor or non vital areas of the body.

This guys heart and will to live are to be commended.

As far as what this me ams about 45acp...
It means nothing. With proper ammunition and shot placement this encounter could have ended badly for the good guys.

Luckily the nimrod bad guy was using FMJ and wasn't as well trained as the LEO.
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:02 PM   #25
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Several valuable lessons here:

1. The will to live must dominate.

2. The need to stay in the fight is essential and involves conquering all pain.

3. Never assume the threat is neutralized until you can absolutely confirm it.

4. Expect the unexpected.

5. It is better to be lucky than good.

6. Be thankful that there are men that can withstand that kind of fight, live to tell the tale, and are back on the job. Words can never say enough to thank a man like this for eliminating a sub human who would kill over a pair of stolen jeans. What would he be capable of if he lived?

The world is degenerating. In the words of a very close friend of mine that is a homicide detective..."Never leave home without your gun. It's dangerous out there."
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