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Old May 14, 2011, 02:03 PM   #1
amazon shooter
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Knife vs Gun

Hi guys,

Situation: Low light conditions. You are in a third world country where they kill people for a $100. You are confronted by three BGs. They are within 6 feet of you. One pulls a knife and says he wants everything you got. You have a concealed handgun. They will eventually discover it if you let them strip you clean.

Question: What's your best option?

a. Move off line and start shooting until the threat is neutralized.
b. Do nothing and hope for the best.
c. Pull your gun out and hope they run.
d. Turn and run - I'm 65, so that won't work.
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:12 PM   #2
BikerRN
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Based on available choices:

A

Close enough to threaten me with a knife is close enough to inflict death with a knife, not to mention the disparity of force. The time for discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

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Old May 14, 2011, 02:38 PM   #3
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Offer them each $100.00 to go kill someone else.
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
A

Close enough to threaten me with a knife is close enough to inflict death with a knife, not to mention the disparity of force. The time for discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

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Old May 14, 2011, 03:28 PM   #5
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Lol..+1 to the 100 bucks to them each
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Old May 14, 2011, 03:41 PM   #6
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Offer each $100 to kill each other?

How concealed is the gun? Could try going for it in a way as to make it look like you are reaching for your wallet.

Although I would run and draw my gun as I'm running. If they start catching up, then I let the lead fly.
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Old May 14, 2011, 03:46 PM   #7
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Don't know of any third world countries that would let you carry a gun concealed or not. I ain't going there anyway.

But

I never heard the expression "DONT CARRY A GUN TO A KNIFE FIGHT"
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Old May 14, 2011, 04:02 PM   #8
10mm man
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3rd world country????

that scenario happens here in the US for far less than $100.

my response though, would to be back pedaling and drawing weapon.
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Old May 14, 2011, 04:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
that scenario happens here in the US for far less than $100.
My thoughts exactly. Seems to me like it would be time for plan A.
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Old May 14, 2011, 04:18 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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As presented, I would guess that you don't have much choice but to draw and fire unless the knife is dropped before you get the gun ready.

I would agree with backpedaling but I would want to think carefully about the order of events. If you start backpedaling before you draw, it might elicit an attack from Mr Knife before you can present the gun. I would think faking a "yeah, I'll get my wallet", leading to a draw/shoot and begin backing away as you fire.
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Old May 14, 2011, 04:42 PM   #11
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I hate pointy things; they scare me. Guess I would have had to put a cap in his ' Besides if I'm in Tijuana I'm gonna need the 100 for booze money.
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Old May 14, 2011, 04:51 PM   #12
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I'm with Peetza, but I would go one additional step.

I wouldn't fake the wallet. There is nothing in my wallet (including the $40 or so cash I'll ever carry in it) I wish to kill or die for. Given that scenario I have no problem with tossing my wallet to the 3 badguys while backing away. If they take it and swagger off, ...fine - I'll cancel my cards and breath a sigh of relief that I didn't have to shoot anyone, pay lawyers bills, go to court, possibly lose my security clearance and my job, and other huge outcomes and consequences.

Besides, if they DON'T just take my wallet and swagger off, thats pretty much proof in any court that it was never about my wallet to begin with.

And therefore, the fact that they didn't just want to rob me and continued their attack underscores why I would conclude that they presented an immediate threat to my life, which justified my use of deadly force.

(Plus, while they're catching and looking through my wallet, it gives me time to draw!)




By the way, Peetza - I really like that C.S. Lewis quote in your sig line...
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Old May 14, 2011, 05:58 PM   #13
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What kind of knife?


0-Boberama
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Old May 14, 2011, 06:05 PM   #14
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Three perps 6 feet in front of me and one pulls a knife and demands my money.

Well 6 feet is real close.

What I do?

Draw and empty my 45 as fast as I can and hope I don't get cut too bad, guess that would be 'option a.'
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Old May 15, 2011, 01:14 PM   #15
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Some variation of option A. Make distance and angles while drawing the weapon is your best bet. A knife is lethal from 21 feet, based on the idea of being able to raw and fire before the knife gets to you.

The other big part of this scenario or any scenario with a blade is your mindset. I was taught that if you fight with a blade you have to understand that you will get cut and that understanding can help you not freak out or go into shock. Wasn't there a video posted a few days ago of a guy with a knife who stabbed 2 cops in S. America? Those guys weren't mentally prepared and they paid the price for underestimating a guy with a knife.
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Old May 15, 2011, 01:38 PM   #16
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They are going to kill you anyway. If I am going down I am at least going to make my body easy to find. Start shooting and make your odds of survival better.
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Old May 15, 2011, 03:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
If you start backpedaling before you draw, it might elicit an attack from Mr Knife before you can present the gun.
A+. It would be even better if you have your firearm close to clearing leather upon the three bad guys approach.

My fanny pack would be open and my hand on the gun once it became clear that the trio was interested in me. The instant their intentions became known out comes the gun. Maintaining separation is vital both before the intent is known thru the production of the knife. You simply cannot allow three strangers to get within 6ft with unknown intent. You must challenge, question, and then react before they get close enough to get you.
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Old May 15, 2011, 03:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Besides, if they DON'T just take my wallet and swagger off, thats pretty much proof in any court that it was never about my wallet to begin with.

And therefore, the fact that they didn't just want to rob me and continued their attack underscores why I would conclude that they presented an immediate threat to my life, which justified my use of deadly force.
As if "armed robbery" needs additional support to justify use of deadly force. I pull a knife and say gimme your money what I am saying is give me your money or I will use this knife. That is instant justification and no further hurdles need be jumped.

Further, tossing wallets or faking the bad guy to access the gun is very unpredictable. We simply don't know how the bad guy will respond to our antics.

This is why I love my fanny pack. Its slower than other methods of carry in reacting to a surprise however it allows me discrete access without alarming anyone. I can access my firearm without anyone knowing........a huge advantage when combined with a properly working situational awareness radar.
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Old May 15, 2011, 03:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
a. Move off line and start shooting until the threat is neutralized.
My plan for most incidents, not just the one mentioned in the OP.
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Old May 15, 2011, 03:55 PM   #20
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Didn't anyone ever see Indiana Jones? Gun vs. Sword. Gun wins. It was further than 6 feet, but still.

Seriously though. I'm drawing and shooting in this situation in any country. I may back up while I'm shooting, in fact I probably will retreat unless there is a barricade or wall behind me. The particulars of exactly how I'd do it can't be determined until the actual scenario occurs.
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Old May 15, 2011, 10:05 PM   #21
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Mentally prepare yourself to start bleeding because you are going get cut when a knife is involved if your weapon is still in the holster and they are inside 30 feet, and that is if everything goes perfect on your part. We have played with airsoft pistols and sharpies to see what happens and the sharpie usually wins.
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Old May 15, 2011, 10:15 PM   #22
egor20
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I would have to choose A.

I've been in a knife fight before, they're not pretty, and nothing like Hollywood. Its quick, bloody and you hope the other guy bleeds out before you do, trust me unless your Steven Seagal or Jason Bourne...... YOU ARE GOING TO GET CUT.
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Old May 15, 2011, 11:10 PM   #23
Kyo
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6 feet is too close. too bad you don't have your own knife. when you bring a gun to a knife fight then you die.
I pick secret answer E. Don't get yourself in this idiotic situation. Ask yourself how you got there. If you are 65 then you should have enough wisdom to not go out in a third world country at night alone. And if you HAVE to, why wouldn't you keep your hand on your weapon at all times anyway? You think third world countries have holster laws or something? I am from a third world country. They could care less.
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Old May 16, 2011, 12:58 AM   #24
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Many so-called third world nations don't allow citizens to carry guns so you should say which third world country you are strolling through. If you use the gun, you might survive the mugging only to spend several years or more in a third world prison.

One strategy might be to carry a spare decoy wallet with $20 to $25 in it in $1s and $5s to make it look like a lot of money. Don't carry credit cards or ID in the decoy wallet. Just toss the decoy wallet and say "please leave me alone". If they don't lose interest in you, this might give you the few seconds you need to draw and fire.

Better yet, don't let anyone close in on you to six feet. Six feet is basically reach-out-and-grab distance...way too close for comfort. Walk with others when strolling third world nations. Been there, done that. Not sure I want to ever do it again.
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Old May 16, 2011, 02:16 AM   #25
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If memory serves isn't it in the Philipinees that have all those home/backyard gunsmiths? Odds are in those countries you'll get held up with a gun. Barring that anyone brings a knife to a gun fight should be out of luck. Doesn't matter what size the knife, as long as it's big enough to draw blood with repeated blows. Even the humble swiss army knife with the bottle screw opener outwards (used in brass knuckles fashion) is enough to be a threat. An artery cut is an artery cut.

The a) options sounds like the better bet.

Perhaps if it it's a revolver risk a first shot from the pocket. Ofcourse depends on where the firearm is.

Last edited by DRBoyle; May 16, 2011 at 02:32 AM.
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