PLEASE help me build a COMBAT SHOTGUN (seriously need some advice here fellas) - Page 2

Eghad · May 12, 2011, 08:49 AM

For a starter it would be hard to beat the Remington 870. I own 2 of them. One is a Remington Synthetic Police Model. The other is an Older 870 that has been parkerized and is shorter than the standard 870.

Those Saigas have caught my eye though and got the brain juices flowing.

kaylorinhi · May 12, 2011, 04:23 PM

Then add only the minimum of accessory's to make it faster acquiring and reacquiring, does mine have a bayonet lug, yes, do I keep a bayonet attached, hell NO! That is just dumb. Knoxx recoil reduction stock and shell holder. Thats it, no other accessories. I will put an Eotec on it sooner or later. I will also put a flashlight on it at some point in time.

So here it goes:
590A1, 870, 500, 1300 or other,
stock to choice,
optic to choice,
light to choice.

Shot it alot Stationary, moving, barricade, pivots and such drills in a safe area until it is muscle memory. Use cheap target loads at first then work up to full on HD loads.

The Terminator · May 12, 2011, 05:16 PM

Here is my 590 Mossy. I put the folding and adjustable Knoxx stock on because I have short arms, and a click down suites me just fine. I keep 2 3/4" buckshot in it, for home defense or whatever rabid animal comes around. I don't want any stray animals attacking my cats and small dogs either. I live out in the country. I like that the stock will fold in order to help handle it in a trunk or in small spaces.

C0untZer0 · May 12, 2011, 05:25 PM

There is a difference between a battle rifle and an assault rifle.

I believe the last battle rifle to be used by the U.S. Military was the M14.

Is that the same with a "combat" shotgun?

Doesn't that limit you to the Mossberg 500 being used by the Marines and the Joints Services Benelli M1014 ?

C0untZer0 · May 12, 2011, 05:27 PM

Is it impossible to create a telescopic / collapsing stock for the Mossberg 930 SPX?

I know it's tough to create one for the Benelli M4.

I really like the 930 SPX, I just wish it had an adjustable stock.

USMCGrunt · May 12, 2011, 06:24 PM

Here are a couple of the combat shotguns I've carried over the years:

The Mossberg M590 was what I carried in the Marines back in the late 80's and early 90's. Yes, it was the standard M590 and not the A1 version everybody talks about. Those came out later on.
On the bottom is the Remington M870 that I carried when I later came back into the USAF. Today they are being phased out for the Remington M870MCS but you still see a few of these guns out there.
Finally while not my guns or pics (I got these pics off the web but I forgot from where) is the Winchester 1200. Again, I carried a couple of these early on in the Marines but they were being phased out by the then new Mossberg M590. I never cared for them back then but I finally broke down and bought a police trade in Winchester Defender to give it a second chance. So far so good but the jury is still out on it.

Technosavant · May 12, 2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

There is a difference between a battle rifle and an assault rifle.

This is getting off topic, but you brought it up.

Who, EXACTLY, officially defined "battle rifle?" Seriously, I want to know. Everybody I know of is just requoting a dude who pontificated at length under a pseudonym as though he was delivering commands from on high regarding the fuzzy line between full caliber rifles and intermediate caliber rifles. I've called baloney on this, and in more than one thread on here I've asked for somebody to prove that some actual authority has made this distinction.

No proof has yet been offered.

A defensive shotgun, aside from obviously being whatever shotgun you use to defend yourself, generally seems to mean a shotgun set up with priorities being easier handling (meaning shorter barrel), ammo capacity (meaning extended magazines), and generally lacking features that have more utility for hunting and clay games but mean little to nothing if used for highly adverse interpersonal interactions (things like a mid bead, ribbed barrel, interchangeable chokes, nice wood stocks, engraving, etc.).

wncchester · May 12, 2011, 09:19 PM

Look thtough a few of the SWAT type magazines and find one that has the most tacticool look and appeals to you and duplicate it. ??

USMCGrunt · May 12, 2011, 09:54 PM

IIRC, it was Jeff Cooper that defined what a battle rifle is and what an assault rifle is. I do know that Chuck Taylor held these definitions as a deciding factor as to what is one and not the other. In any case, it gives a pretty good set of definitions of what particular weapon falls into what category. But come to think of it, just who on high decided that "C-A-T" means a domestic house cat and not a dog?

C0untZer0 · May 12, 2011, 10:18 PM

I would go by U.S. Army nomenclature. If the U.S. Army didn't call it "RIFLE, BATTLE, 7.62MM, M14" Then it's not a "Battle" rifle.

As far as I know the U.S. Army nomenclature is: RIFLE, 7.62MM, M14

The nomenclature for the M16 is: RIFLE, 5.56MM, M16A2

There really is nothing about Battle/combat/assault or whatever.

ClydeFrog · May 13, 2011, 12:09 AM

Depending on your budget($$$) & uses(duty, home defense, PSC, etc) I'd check into www.Wilsoncombat.com www.Vangcomp.com or Mike LaRocca.
They offer packages & services for combat room brooms.

I'd add a Knoxx stock & maybe a Surefire fore-end. Tritium or night sights are a smart pick too.

ClydeFrog

Smoke Screen · May 13, 2011, 02:19 AM

Thanks to everyone for the awesome pics and insight. Even to the knuckleheads who didn't read the Original Post and barfed out info anyhow. Specifically looking to build a combat shotgun, already know what pump model I'm getting, just wanted to know the recommendations people who have used defensive/combat styled shotguns what accessories they'd recommend.

theblakester · May 13, 2011, 03:55 AM

check out shotgunworld.com and go to the tactical/HD forum section

greyeyezz · May 13, 2011, 10:57 AM

All I added was a Choate mark5 stock and a Wilson +2 extension and follower, Nordic componets clamp. $130

$1,325.00 for a wilson shotgun?

Fargazer · May 13, 2011, 11:52 AM

I'll first agree with most of the themes other posters have stressed:

Keep it simple
Develop your skills - practice practice practice

AIP Tactical is a good source of information. I spoke to J.D. last year when discussing a home defense shotgun; he's an experienced armorer and veteran, and had loads of good advice.

You haven't stated what you want the combat shotgun for, so I'll chuck in a couple points from a "home defense" viewpoint. If this is more of a "I want one for my collection", these points may not apply:

A 20 gauge is going to do just fine in a home defense scenario - plenty of punch, and more controllable.
Regularly get out your shotgun, shoot it, and regularly maintain it so you know it works when you really need it. Don't just toss it into the closet and forget about it - be a heck of a thing to reach for it and find your wife moved it to hang up clothes.
Keep it simple.
- If you can get by with a good quality recoil pad rather than a fancy recoil reduction stock, do so.
- No fancy sights; front bead is fine

Take a look at J.D.'s site; you can see examples of what he puts together, and either use them for a guideline or have him build one for you.

Mudinyeri · May 13, 2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Who, EXACTLY, officially defined "battle rifle?"

That's the exact reason I asked the OP to define what he meant by "combat shotgun". I still don't think he's done that so it's pretty hard to make any specific recommendations.

IMHO, a "battle" or "combat" weapon of any type - rifle, shotgun, pistol, Ninja star, etc. - is one either used or intended to be used in battle or in combat.

Circling back around, that's why I asked the OP to define "combat shotgun" since I highly doubt he's actually going into combat with his shotgun any time soon. Of course, I could be wrong about that ....

publius · May 16, 2011, 01:19 AM

have you ever shot a shotgun w/a pistol grip stock. If you haven't try one before you pay for one. I hate them, ruins the natural pointability for me. Some people love them. I like PawPaw's setup, regular old 870 with a short barrel. Fill that sucker with #1 buck and you're good to go.

darkgael · May 16, 2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

have you ever shot a shotgun w/a pistol grip stock. If you haven't try one before you pay for one. I hate them, ruins the natural pointability for me. Some people love them. I like PawPaw's setup, regular old 870 with a short barrel. Fill that sucker with #1 buck and you're good to go.

+1 about that.
Pete

greyeyezz · May 16, 2011, 02:49 PM

For shooting objects at ground level I wouldn't have anything but a PGS. The original standard stock is siting on a shelf collecting dust. Personal preference I guess.

oneounceload · May 16, 2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Is it impossible to create a telescopic / collapsing stock for the Mossberg 930 SPX?

I know it's tough to create one for the Benelli M4.

I really like the 930 SPX, I just wish it had an adjustable stock.

You would be better off with a plain stock that FITS

C0untZer0 · May 16, 2011, 09:41 PM

I was on ShotgunWorld and one 930 SPX owner replied "if you take the buttplate off you'll see that won't work." Supposedly a tube runs pretty far back into the stock.

Smoke Screen · May 17, 2011, 01:53 AM

@Mudinyeri,

Quote:

IMHO, a "battle" or "combat" weapon of any type - rifle, shotgun, pistol, Ninja star, etc. - is one either used or intended to be used in battle or in combat.

You are correct sir, at least from my point of view. This weapon system I am putting together would be intended for an Urban environment, with shots not intended much past 100yds. I am planning on taking several different combat courses to familiarize myself with my system (after watching Magpul's shotgun DVDs) and realize that I will probably make adjustments along the way. Would love to compete with it too, if'n there's an organization besides 3 gun thats more like IDPA where u can use shotty's. No, I don't plan on "using" it anytime soon, but you never know....Vegas is just a couple hours away, and I hear they have LOTS and lots of zombies!

Also @Publius....you didn't read me correctly. I don't want a pistol grip set up for the gun. I want a full pistol grip STOCK setup.

Mudinyeri · May 17, 2011, 02:00 PM

Given your explanation, Smoke Screen, I'd probably start with a Benelli M4, add a +2 mag tube extension and spend any money left over on ammo, training to learn how to utilize the weapon and as much range time as you can afford.

C0untZer0 · May 17, 2011, 04:19 PM

I don't totally understand the whole Benelli M4 thing, supposedly some versions had collapsable stocks but "civilian" versions did not.

But then I see some people have what they are calling an M4 - not the 1014 with a collapsing stock, but supposedly Benelli doesn't sell the collapsing stock version to anyone except LE, but then I see them for sale so I wonder if those are LEO, or if it is a second-hand SG that was once owned by a LEO.

I need an aspirin.

And I'm wondering, is it really that much better than a Mossberg 930 ??? Is it even better period?

Mudinyeri · May 18, 2011, 12:03 PM

I don't see a collapsible stock as a necessity for a "combat" shotgun.

I would say the reliability of the M4 far outstrips that of the 930 SPX ... and I own a 930 SPX.

For me, reliability is the #1 feature I'm looking for in a "combat" weapon. If it doesn't go bang 100% of the time when I want it to ... the rest of the features are irrelevant.

May 12, 2011, 08:49 AM	#26
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,226	For a starter it would be hard to beat the Remington 870. I own 2 of them. One is a Remington Synthetic Police Model. The other is an Older 870 that has been parkerized and is shorter than the standard 870. Those Saigas have caught my eye though and got the brain juices flowing. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

May 12, 2011, 04:23 PM	#27
kaylorinhi Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: The brown eye of america Posts: 460	Start with a 590A1 Then add only the minimum of accessory's to make it faster acquiring and reacquiring, does mine have a bayonet lug, yes, do I keep a bayonet attached, hell NO! That is just dumb. Knoxx recoil reduction stock and shell holder. Thats it, no other accessories. I will put an Eotec on it sooner or later. I will also put a flashlight on it at some point in time. So here it goes: 590A1, 870, 500, 1300 or other, stock to choice, optic to choice, light to choice. Shot it alot Stationary, moving, barricade, pivots and such drills in a safe area until it is muscle memory. Use cheap target loads at first then work up to full on HD loads. __________________ Buy your guns by Yardline, Not Looks.

May 12, 2011, 05:16 PM	#28
The Terminator Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2002 Location: Georgia, 35 miles Northwest of the armpit Posts: 947	Here is my 590 Mossy. I put the folding and adjustable Knoxx stock on because I have short arms, and a click down suites me just fine. I keep 2 3/4" buckshot in it, for home defense or whatever rabid animal comes around. I don't want any stray animals attacking my cats and small dogs either. I live out in the country. I like that the stock will fold in order to help handle it in a trunk or in small spaces. __________________ The Terminator John 3:16 (I hope to see You over there.)

May 13, 2011, 12:09 AM	#36
ClydeFrog Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 3,869	Top names in the combat 12ga shotgun industry... Depending on your budget($$$) & uses(duty, home defense, PSC, etc) I'd check into www.Wilsoncombat.com www.Vangcomp.com or Mike LaRocca. They offer packages & services for combat room brooms. I'd add a Knoxx stock & maybe a Surefire fore-end. Tritium or night sights are a smart pick too. ClydeFrog

May 13, 2011, 02:19 AM	#37
Smoke Screen Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Cold Rocks Hold, in the Aiel Waste Posts: 172	Thanks to everyone for the awesome pics and insight. Even to the knuckleheads who didn't read the Original Post and barfed out info anyhow. Specifically looking to build a combat shotgun, already know what pump model I'm getting, just wanted to know the recommendations people who have used defensive/combat styled shotguns what accessories they'd recommend. __________________ Courage does not always roar...Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow"

May 12, 2011, 05:25 PM	#29
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	There is a difference between a battle rifle and an assault rifle. I believe the last battle rifle to be used by the U.S. Military was the M14. Is that the same with a "combat" shotgun? Doesn't that limit you to the Mossberg 500 being used by the Marines and the Joints Services Benelli M1014 ?

May 12, 2011, 05:27 PM	#30
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Is it impossible to create a telescopic / collapsing stock for the Mossberg 930 SPX? I know it's tough to create one for the Benelli M4. I really like the 930 SPX, I just wish it had an adjustable stock.

May 12, 2011, 06:24 PM	#31
USMCGrunt Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Somewhere in 13T EG Posts: 565	Here are a couple of the combat shotguns I've carried over the years: The Mossberg M590 was what I carried in the Marines back in the late 80's and early 90's. Yes, it was the standard M590 and not the A1 version everybody talks about. Those came out later on. On the bottom is the Remington M870 that I carried when I later came back into the USAF. Today they are being phased out for the Remington M870MCS but you still see a few of these guns out there. Finally while not my guns or pics (I got these pics off the web but I forgot from where) is the Winchester 1200. Again, I carried a couple of these early on in the Marines but they were being phased out by the then new Mossberg M590. I never cared for them back then but I finally broke down and bought a police trade in Winchester Defender to give it a second chance. So far so good but the jury is still out on it.

May 12, 2011, 09:19 PM	#33
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,700	Look thtough a few of the SWAT type magazines and find one that has the most tacticool look and appeals to you and duplicate it. ??

May 12, 2011, 09:54 PM	#34
USMCGrunt Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Somewhere in 13T EG Posts: 565	IIRC, it was Jeff Cooper that defined what a battle rifle is and what an assault rifle is. I do know that Chuck Taylor held these definitions as a deciding factor as to what is one and not the other. In any case, it gives a pretty good set of definitions of what particular weapon falls into what category. But come to think of it, just who on high decided that "C-A-T" means a domestic house cat and not a dog?

May 12, 2011, 10:18 PM	#35
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I would go by U.S. Army nomenclature. If the U.S. Army didn't call it "RIFLE, BATTLE, 7.62MM, M14" Then it's not a "Battle" rifle. As far as I know the U.S. Army nomenclature is: RIFLE, 7.62MM, M14 The nomenclature for the M16 is: RIFLE, 5.56MM, M16A2 There really is nothing about Battle/combat/assault or whatever.

May 13, 2011, 03:55 AM	#38
theblakester Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 51	check out shotgunworld.com and go to the tactical/HD forum section

May 13, 2011, 10:57 AM	#39
greyeyezz Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2001 Location: N.E. OH Posts: 304	All I added was a Choate mark5 stock and a Wilson +2 extension and follower, Nordic componets clamp. $130 $1,325.00 for a wilson shotgun?

May 13, 2011, 11:52 AM	#40
Fargazer Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 420	I'll first agree with most of the themes other posters have stressed: Keep it simple Develop your skills - practice practice practice AIP Tactical is a good source of information. I spoke to J.D. last year when discussing a home defense shotgun; he's an experienced armorer and veteran, and had loads of good advice. You haven't stated what you want the combat shotgun for, so I'll chuck in a couple points from a "home defense" viewpoint. If this is more of a "I want one for my collection", these points may not apply: A 20 gauge is going to do just fine in a home defense scenario - plenty of punch, and more controllable. Regularly get out your shotgun, shoot it, and regularly maintain it so you know it works when you really need it. Don't just toss it into the closet and forget about it - be a heck of a thing to reach for it and find your wife moved it to hang up clothes. Keep it simple. If you can get by with a good quality recoil pad rather than a fancy recoil reduction stock, do so. No fancy sights; front bead is fine Take a look at J.D.'s site; you can see examples of what he puts together, and either use them for a guideline or have him build one for you. __________________ NRA Life Member

May 16, 2011, 01:19 AM	#42
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,349	have you ever shot a shotgun w/a pistol grip stock. If you haven't try one before you pay for one. I hate them, ruins the natural pointability for me. Some people love them. I like PawPaw's setup, regular old 870 with a short barrel. Fill that sucker with #1 buck and you're good to go. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

May 16, 2011, 02:49 PM	#44
greyeyezz Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2001 Location: N.E. OH Posts: 304	For shooting objects at ground level I wouldn't have anything but a PGS. The original standard stock is siting on a shelf collecting dust. Personal preference I guess.

May 16, 2011, 09:41 PM	#46
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I was on ShotgunWorld and one 930 SPX owner replied "if you take the buttplate off you'll see that won't work." Supposedly a tube runs pretty far back into the stock.

May 17, 2011, 02:00 PM	#48
Mudinyeri Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 145	Given your explanation, Smoke Screen, I'd probably start with a Benelli M4, add a +2 mag tube extension and spend any money left over on ammo, training to learn how to utilize the weapon and as much range time as you can afford.

May 17, 2011, 04:19 PM	#49
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I don't totally understand the whole Benelli M4 thing, supposedly some versions had collapsable stocks but "civilian" versions did not. But then I see some people have what they are calling an M4 - not the 1014 with a collapsing stock, but supposedly Benelli doesn't sell the collapsing stock version to anyone except LE, but then I see them for sale so I wonder if those are LEO, or if it is a second-hand SG that was once owned by a LEO. I need an aspirin. And I'm wondering, is it really that much better than a Mossberg 930 ??? Is it even better period?

May 18, 2011, 12:03 PM	#50
Mudinyeri Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 145	I don't see a collapsible stock as a necessity for a "combat" shotgun. I would say the reliability of the M4 far outstrips that of the 930 SPX ... and I own a 930 SPX. For me, reliability is the #1 feature I'm looking for in a "combat" weapon. If it doesn't go bang 100% of the time when I want it to ... the rest of the features are irrelevant.