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Old May 11, 2011, 03:48 PM   #1
Smoke Screen
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PLEASE help me build a COMBAT SHOTGUN (seriously need some advice here fellas)

Ok, so I've saved up my dinero, and I'm going to build a combat shotgun. I've been watching the DVD series by MAGPUL - Art of the Dynamic Shotgun and there are sooo many different variations one can equip their shotgun with, that don't know where to start! This shotgun build will be PURELY A COMBAT shotgun. SO:

Where do I start? What does military and LEO recommend? Bead sight, vs. Ghost Ring, vs. Red dot? 6 or 9 round? 18.5" vs. 20"? Fixed full pistol grip stock or 6-position? Porting? Muzzle Break? Heat sheild? Obviously the situations are endless, but those who have experience handling/using a FIGHTING shotgun, what would be the recommended accessories/must-haves?

I have NO experience with a combat style shotgun, but have years on hunting shotguns. Side by's, Overunders, .410-.16-.12 ga....you name it. Just kinda hung up on where to get going with the Battle-styled-scattergun.

Things I know I want...a pistol grip full stock, and a standoff/breach end on the barrel. Thanks for the input guys(& gals)!

P.S. The first combat shotgun build will be a PUMP. The next will be a semi-auto. As for the semi-auto's....what are some of the most customizable semi-auto platforms out there? I'm guessing it'd be the 1100's, the 930, and the benelli m2's?
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Old May 11, 2011, 04:13 PM   #2
Mudinyeri
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What sort of combat do you anticipate?
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Old May 11, 2011, 04:41 PM   #3
Technosavant
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I don't know why you'd need to build up a tactical shotgun. There's several of them on the market- given your list of desires, I'd recommend an 870 Express Tac Camo. Sounds like it's what you want right out of the box with a full warranty.

As far as what one MUST have, I'd prob. just say a basic pump gun with a mag extension and a shorter barrel for handling is plenty. IMO, the PG/full stock combos are unnecessary (but are a preference deal), and this is coming from a guy who has a Knoxx SpecOps on his 870 Tactical (hey, it came with it, but if it breaks again it's getting replaced by a regular stock). Beyond that, experience with the weapon is the key.

Probably the most customizable pump gun is the 870, mostly due to the size of the aftermarket. The Mossberg 500 isn't far behind. But Remington makes several tactical models, and you might as well just get one ready to go out of the box.
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Old May 11, 2011, 04:45 PM   #4
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In shotguns, the KISS principle is paramount.

My combat shotgun looks like this. It's a Remington 870. Today, it would have Remington order # 24888



Wood stocks, 20" barrel, no mag extension, rifle sights. It's done everything I've wanted a police/military shotgun to do, for nearly the past 30 years. Maybe in another ten years or so I'll retire it when I hang up the rest of the duty gear. Until then, it's a trusted friend.

I've tried all the gee-gaws, including the pistol grip stock, the mag extensions, first one thing then another. I keep coming back to the basic shotgun. And, it wouldn't matter if it were Remington, Winchester, Mossberg, whatever. I've got other shotguns, but when I'm gearing up, this is the one that goes with me.
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Old May 11, 2011, 04:47 PM   #5
Dave McC
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THE one must have accessory is......


Ammo!!

Contrary to Net Myth, a bone stock shotgun can be just as effective as the ninjafied stuff, or more so. It requires trained hands, though.

So go shooting. Once the pile of empties reaches your shins, and you've added a nice set of wear marks to your shotgun, you will have a better idea of what you and it need to better fulfill the mission.....
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:16 PM   #6
KChen986
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If it were up to me, I'd take a Mossberg 590A1 with ghost rings, 8+1, add on a youth stock and a side saddle, perhaps a sling and call it good.

But that's just me. YMMV
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:24 PM   #7
theblakester
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I love the Blackhawk Knoxx recoil reducing adjustable length stock. It turns the kick of the gun into more of a slight shove and allows quicker, more accurate follow up shots.-- Get it w/ the power pak (side saddle for the buttstock) and cheek weild (easier to line up the sights w/ and won't bruise your cheek) for it.
-- you can also also get a Hogue grip pistol grip for a more solid grip of the gun- ive heard good things about these.

Surefire forend weaponlight system (if you want to get extra fancy go w/ a lazer/light combo). Expensive, but great if you have the money

Tacstar makes a good magazine extension tube at a good price.

If you want a full on combat shotgun I'd go with a 20" barrel, vang comped system, a red dot sight, and a +3 magazine extension tube (assuming your shotgun will normally hold 5 rounds total).

If you want if for Home defense, Id go w/ an 18" cylinder bore barrel w/ plain bead sight, and a +2 magazine extension tube (assuming that your shotgun will normally hold 5 rounds total).

Heat shields look cool, but they add to the weight of the gun and don't serve much of a functional purpose unless you're going to be shooting a lot of rounds in a very short period of time.

I would stay away from a side saddle that goes on the receiver. They're bulky, and if you screw it in too tight it will compress the inside of the receiver and jamb the gun when you try to cycle it. That's why I would say to get the "power pak" on the blackhawk stock.

Stay away from ATI (advanced technology international) brand. Their products are cheaply made, and they break quickly and don't fit the guns they're made for.




Best of luck!

Blake

Last edited by theblakester; May 11, 2011 at 05:48 PM.
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:33 PM   #8
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Half the Tactical accessories don't make much sense to me anyways.

Why a pistol grip? sure its fine when shouldered, but what happens when you need to fire it from the hip.... a regular shotgun stock is still much better suited.

You start adding all that crap on it much makes it a big bulky .. often creeky.. mess. I keep an extra couple shells on the stock of mine, and 8 in the gun itself.... that alone makes for a heavy shotgun. I don't get the point of all these fancy stocks, and recoil reducing this or that. Just this past weekend I spent a day with mine shooting 3inch mag shells out of it.... sure my shoulder hurt.. and I have a slight bruise.... but I can honestly tell you if I were in a real combat situation with it... I would be thanking the heavens if all I had was a bruise on my shoulder from recoil afterwards.

Here is my "Combat" shotgun... It cost me $150. Only thing you dont see in the pic is one of those $4 shell holders that slides onto the stock. I keep this in the trunk of my car 90% of the time.

A bone stock Winchester 1300 Defender model. Holds 8 rounds.

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Old May 11, 2011, 06:07 PM   #9
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My Saiga 12ga

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Old May 11, 2011, 06:22 PM   #10
theblakester
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What'd you say about my momma!!?!?


HK, for $150.00 you did really good.
Quote:
Why a pistol grip? sure its fine when shouldered, but what happens when you need to fire it from the hip.... a regular shotgun stock is still much better suited.
I disagree. I can hip fire mine just fine. But I wouldn't suggest hip firing a long gun in any serious situation.. you'll be far less accurate. leave that for hollywood. IMHO a shotgun w/ just a pistol grip is not a good idea.

Quote:
You start adding all that crap on it much makes it a big bulky .. often creeky.. mess.
Not that your reply was directed specifically at me, but what unnecessary add ons are you talking about? IMHO, I'm suggesting improvements, rather than a bunch of unnecessary add ons. The only add ons that i suggested that your shotgun doesn't have would be the tactical light, and the red dot sight. If you're shooting in the dark, you need to identify your target before you shoot and the surefire forend is the most simple way to get it done w/o making your gun all bulky, but it is also the most expensive. The red dot sight... necessary, no. will it improve accuracy? probably.
https://vangcomp.com/Home.html

You could also wait until this bad boy comes out. Holds 14 rounds in the side by side magazine(s)!!
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...6&d=1303756338
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1303714962
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...7&d=1303707798
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:31 PM   #11
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Combat Shotgun?

Dont know about the combat shotgun but my HD is a Saiga 20 gauge. Light recoil. The magazine holds 5 shells, easy to point, and I found it quite accurate out to 75 yards or so. Being almost 70 yrs old, I cant see any target past that, unless I have a 'scope.

My Saiga has a modified stock (based on the Dragunof). Great shotgun, IMHO. Best of all, my wife has no hesitation shooting it, increasing its HD value.

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Old May 11, 2011, 06:54 PM   #12
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Do you really want to build one? Why don't you just wait for the KSG?





Here is a thread on building a tac SG on the Mossberg 930:

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...930-SPX-Review
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:30 PM   #13
HKFan9
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Unfortunately it is made by Kel-tec... and judging by the Kel-tecs that come back to our shop that need to be repaired I would automatically avoid it. The copied the idea from another company... so I am sure someone (Ruger) will copy them.

The Blakester.... no it was not intended to be towards you. I do agree one thing that my shotgun could benefit from would be a flashlight... but yet again... thats my car gun.. I have an AR for HD with a Surefire Scout weapon light on it.

My point is... unless you are LEO, SWAT, Military.... chances are you will be using your shotgun for self -defense.... NOT combat.... sorry but they are not the same thing.

You wont be breeching doors, clearing rooms and going on the offensive. Smartest thing to do is lock the door and call the police, the person comes through the door.... really any shotgun is more than suited to take care of that threat. Closest thing to clearing a room you should be doing is if you needed to move to another room to gather family members.

I do disagree that a pistol grip is better, and I also disagree that firing from the hip is inaccurate and impractical. It might be for some... but I spent my money on ammo and training.. not fancy do-dads. At any normal HD distance (literally measured my own home for good measure) I can hit my target just as well from the hip as I can should fire with buckshot. Yes you CAN shoot a pistol grip from the hip, but puts your wrist at an awkward angle. When inside a home, you can make an already compact gun more compact by dropping it to your hip rather than shouldered the entire time... and yes I am well versed in the "Low Ready" or Guard position.

It is your money, spend it how you would like, but personally I skipped all the add-on's and spend the same amount of money on ammo the same day I bought the gun. So I got my Winchester 1300 Defender for $150..... 175 bulk ammo can of 00 buckshot for $80, then various boxes of different slugs and other buckshot. So for ~$300 and some change... I have a great shotgun, and a lot of ammo to train and use with it.

Dave MCC had it right before.
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:30 PM   #14
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The one indespensible add on you have to put on your picatinny rail is the bottle opener:




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File Type: jpg bottle opener2.jpg (18.1 KB, 1865 views)
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:40 PM   #15
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Don't forget the bayonet:

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Old May 11, 2011, 07:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KChen986
If it were up to me, I'd take a Mossberg 590A1 with ghost rings, 8+1, add on a youth stock and a side saddle, perhaps a sling and call it good.

But that's just me. YMMV
That's what I would do, but I'd add a light of some type. Preferably a Surefire dedicated forend, but any light and barrel clamp would do in a pinch.

However, while I don't believe a pistol grip stock is necessary, if you insist on it I would use a Remington 870 due to the safety placement on the Mossberg.
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:45 PM   #17
Willie Lowman
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i'm not going to read the thread

Mossberg 590

or

Benelli M2
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:49 PM   #18
the rifleer
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The simpler the better. You do not need a sling or a laser. The only things that may be useful are a taclight and a bayonet. (the bayonet is really only if you EXPECT to fight hand to hand) and the problem with the light is while you can see, you can your opponent.

I don't see any use for a red dot sight. Just a simple bead will do. You point a shotgun, you don't aim it.

An 870 or 500 or 590 is all you need. You don't need a bunch of crap handing off of it, it just gets in the way and adds weight. One thing that is especially useless is a heat shield. In a home defense situation, you are not going to be firing dozens of rounds. You may realistically fire a couple of rounds, thats it. You are not going to get the barrel that hot.

Slings just get in the way. They are great for carrying a gun all day long, but when you hold it for just a couple minutes, they are useless.
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Old May 11, 2011, 08:03 PM   #19
5.56RifleGuy
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Rather than Benelli M2 check out the Stoeger m2000. Its the same thing for much much much less. Same recoil system, and nearly same outside too.

They run great.
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Old May 11, 2011, 08:05 PM   #20
C0untZer0
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Combat will make you hungry,

Make sure you get the picatinny mounted hard boiled egg holder, and the tactical salt & pepper holder:





You can get the plain tactical salt & pepper shakers as shown here or you can get the ROBAR NP3+ treated shakers in camo pattern.

Also - even if you don't plan to use the tactical salt & pepper shakers for dispensing condiments, you should fill both of them with salt. Salt is a great fall back weapon against zombies.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tacsaltnpepperP.jpg (5.4 KB, 1016 views)
File Type: jpg egg holder.JPG (5.1 KB, 1025 views)

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Old May 11, 2011, 08:18 PM   #21
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If you have $$$ then the choice is simple Benelli M2 or M3 or M4 or FN SLP. Really, just as good for less $$$ is the Mossberg 930 SPX. If you don't have the $$$ or have the $$$ and don't care about being able to shoot the fastest, then Mossberg 590 or an 870 from Scattergun Technology (insane prices) or better deal 870 from AIP Tactical.
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Old May 12, 2011, 01:52 AM   #22
hogdogs
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Easiest COMBAT Shotgun build would be to buy a pump shotgun from a store IN THE BOX (this is required for the "build")... open box, remove stock/receiver/mag tube assembly and the loose barrel... Partially open action, insert barrel into orifice above mag tube.... insert fully using moderate human pressure... now this is very important... twist in a clockwise rotation, the barrel retaining screw or mag tube cap (this varies with make and model) using the dynamics on the pre machined helical incline plane (this will be known as threads) to reduce the gap from bottom of screw head or mag tube cap until sufficient torque/force is attained. Do not use wrench or pliers as it may mar the finish and/or exert excessive force on barrel, receiver, mag tube, barrel retainer screw or cap and could even cause damage to the helical incline plane on mag tube and/or retaining fastener device...

Upon completion of the above steps... A kinetic test, void of multi component pre assembled projectile equipped destructive assemblies (known by lesser sophisticated individuals as "ammunition"), should be performed by applying locomotive physical activity to the moving parts that cause the functions of the various components of the combat device to complete their designed functions including pressure to the release lever retaining the thin hardened section of ferrous metal in it's compressed position to determine that all of the individual components of the combat capable projectile emitting assembled device function according to design parameters and in required harmony.

Following this extensively sophisticated functionality research and testing, The installation of the aforementioned pre-assembled projectile emitting assemblies should be performed with caution so as not to install an excessive quantity of these devices so as not to exceed the predetermined compressed length of the helical wound compression resisting cylindrical shaped pre stressed section of ferrous metal linear strip.

Now by applying locomotive physical activity to the moving parts that cause the functions of the various components of the combat device to complete their designed functions including pressure to the release lever retaining the thin hardened section of ferrous metal so it makes expedient and forceful contact with the detonation component of the projectile emitting destructive assembly, with the device directed towards an approved receiving component also known as a target, launch the projectiles in a linear fashion with high velocity motion.

While doing this repeatedly, also take this time to replace chemically formulated protective coatings from the requisite components and replace them with metallic colored exposed surfaces void of any amber or brown colored oxidized coatings on said metallic surfaces...

It will take many repetitions of the aforementioned locomotive repetitious cycles...

OKAY.... consider your self lucky... I have never used such sophistication or thorough detail to assist anyone with their combat shotgun needs!

Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; May 12, 2011 at 03:00 AM.
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Old May 12, 2011, 04:56 AM   #23
darkgael
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Combat

Quote:
It is your money, spend it how you would like, but personally I skipped all the add-on's and spend the same amount of money on ammo the same day I bought the gun. So I got my Winchester 1300 Defender for $150..... 175 bulk ammo can of 00 buckshot for $80, then various boxes of different slugs and other buckshot. So for ~$300 and some change... I have a great shotgun, and a lot of ammo to train and use with it.
+1 about that. Very good advice.

Quote:
You point a shotgun, you don't aim it.
While that statement is near and dear to my heart, I'll take exception to it in this thread. You point a shotgun at moving objects - like grouse, pheasant or White Flyers.....for combat or HD, you aim.
Pete
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Old May 12, 2011, 06:10 AM   #24
model18
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keep it simple....... 870 Express, short barrel, mag ext...........most (not all) aftermarket products are window dressing IMHO.
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Old May 12, 2011, 07:23 AM   #25
Lee Lapin
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Don't worry so much about the hardware- any reliable riot gun will do just fine, as long as it fits you. Worry about making yourself a competent shotgun shooter, then a competent gunfighter with a shotgun. Yes, there is a difference.

Wanna spend money on a fighting shotgun? Get a cheap used police trade-in riot gun, nail down the basics of safety and running the gun and then go take a 3-day shotgun class from Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain, Clint Smith etc. That'll do you more good than all the toothy breacher muzzle devices and other shotgun gimmicks in the world.

Mindset/Skillset/Toolset, in that order, was what the old Air Force colonel said. It still applies.

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