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Old April 16, 1999, 04:36 PM   #1
John G
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I read somewhere about Browning hi-powers with 1911-style grip safeties. When were these made, and how many are still in circulation?

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Old April 16, 1999, 09:38 PM   #2
Harley Nolden
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John G:
My records indicate that several models of Browning Pistols have the grip safety, however, I have not been able to locate the Hi-Power with the grip safety.

The Browning pistols that have the grip safety are single action, same as the 1911, and the Hi-Power is double action. Are you positive what we are looking for is the Browning Hi-Power?

HJN
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Old April 16, 1999, 10:34 PM   #3
David Schmidbauer
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Harley

>the Hi-Power is double action

!?!? Then there must be something bad wrong with my wives as it is SA. Might you be thinking of a BDA (Browning Double Action)?

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Old April 17, 1999, 04:57 AM   #4
Harley Nolden
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David:
That was my point. The Hi-Power is double action and does not have the grip safety. The Browning BDA is aslo double action and does not have the grip safety.

The two Pistols, by Browning, are the 1903, and the 1910/22. The 1903 was designed by John Browning, who sold the rights to Colt for the USA and FN for the rest of the world. Colt produced it as a home defence pistol in 7.65mm, FN as a military pistol in 9mm Browning Long Caliber. This pistol was widley copied in Spain from 1905 onward and in various calibers.

The 1910/22 is an improved version of the M1903, in which the recoil spring is placed around the barrel instead of beneth it, giving the unique tubular appearance to the slide. It was copied in Sain in 1920-35 period, though not to the extent of the M1903 and also in Germany as "Rheinmetall" and "DWM" pistols, easily distinguished by their marking. In 1922 it was given a longer barrel and the slide lengthened by a bayonet-jointed extension.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 17, 1999).]
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Old April 17, 1999, 05:34 AM   #5
David Schmidbauer
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Harley

>The Hi-Power is double action and does not have the grip safety. <snip> The two Pistols, by Browning, are the 1903, and the 1910/22. The 1903 was designed by John Browning<

You are confusing the hell out of this Jarhead. You see, I'm holding my wifes Hi-Power in my hand right now... pulling the trigger with the hammer down... nothing is happening (same as when I do this to my 1911).

Now, not being as learned as you, when I speak of a Browning Hi-Power I am talking about a Model 1935. If the models 1903 & 1910/22 were called "hi-power" also I do not know.

I DO know that the Model 1935 (listed in Fjested's Blue Book as Model 1935 Hi-Power or just Hi-Power)is a Single Action (and yes you are correct in that it has no grip safety).

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[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited April 17, 1999).]
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Old April 17, 1999, 05:49 AM   #6
Harley Nolden
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I stand corrected "Gunny" in that the M1935 is single action, that is after it has be cocked, similar to 1911. Thanks for pointing that out. I don't know if I told you about those two rocks in my front yard, but a lot of times they are smarter than I am.

After I get out from inderneath this carpet, that's how tall I feel, I will regain my composure, remove my crainial structure from my sphyncter muscle and pay more attention to detail.

There are no Jar-Heads, just Marines, and Former Marines.
HJN
HJN
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Old April 17, 1999, 02:14 PM   #7
John G
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Yes, I have a .32cal 1922 Browning(nazi proofs, belgian manufacture. It has a grip safety. I also have a 9mm Hi-Power, and its single action. Maybe I read about a prototype, or maybe a foriegn copy, but I believe this "grip safety Hi-Power" pistol does exist.

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Old April 17, 1999, 04:06 PM   #8
James K
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The 1935 Browning GP (High Power) is not double action, although it looks in pictures like it should be. It does not and never did have a grip safety, nor did the Browning 1900. The Colt Mode M did, and so did the M1910/1922 Brownings.

The grip safety was usually put on in the early days not to prevent the gun from firing when dropped (though some did that) but to make sure the shooter's hand was out of the way of the slide. Some shooters (like U.S. cavalry troops) had the habit of holding a revolver rather high and got hurt with trial pistols without grip safeties.
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Old April 17, 1999, 06:13 PM   #9
David Schmidbauer
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Not a problem Harley... I have Brain Fade every now and then also.


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Old April 20, 1999, 09:11 AM   #10
jimmy
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Jim is, of course, correct. I had a look in Ezell's "Handguns of the World" as well as Blake Stevens' book on the BHP. Both books illustrate a wide range of prototype and production HPs, none of which has a grip safety.
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Old April 20, 1999, 11:41 AM   #11
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Jimmy,

Thanks for the "of course"; I hope I can live up to it.

It would not be impossible to put a grip safety on the BHP design, but it would be more difficult since the BHP doesn't use a trigger bar like the M1911 does. The M1911 grip safety does not block the sear or the hammer, only the trigger bar. This was OK because, as I said, it was really only to prevent firing without the hand in a safe position. The Colt Model M grip safety, for example, does block the sear.
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Old April 22, 1999, 09:09 AM   #12
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Ive owned a bunch of hi-powers and seen quite a few more....and ive never yet came accross a p35--hipower that had a grip safety, I dont think it exists, and cant really see a reason for it.........I do have a old browning my father bought back in the early to mid 60's that was the first gun I ever shot.....I dont know the model and Have not seen one like it for a while although Ive been told that they were found by the bucketts full at the old gun shows.....this pistol is 32acp hammerless,,uses a striker..and has a slide safety and grip safety and probably the most unusul feature is the end of the slide, the last inch or so of the slide has a spring activated piece that has to be moved and the end of the slide twisted to remove for dismantling,the barrel also has to be twisted for removal....I think pop paid $17 dollars for that pistol, its well made, slim, easy to shoot and has the worse sights know to mankind, but I treasure that old pistol.fubsy.
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Old April 22, 1999, 09:18 AM   #13
John G
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Sounds like you've got a model 1910, 1922, 0r the model 10/22. They all dismantle in the manner described, and were .32 or .380.

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Old April 22, 1999, 10:48 AM   #14
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Hi, fusby,

Since that removable piece is about an inch long, you have the Model 1922. FN first made the Model 1910, with a shorter barrel and grip, then potential buyers wanted a bigger mag (don't they always?) and a longer barrel. Rather than change the whole tooling setup, FN lengthened the barrel and barrel bushing, modified the frame slightly, and sold it as the Model 1922. If you look at your gun or better compare it with the 1910, you can see the "quick and dirty" way they did it.

Those Brownings are favorites for movie silencers because you can take the 1910 slide and 1922 barrel and have an inch of barrel to stick on a piece of tin that looks like a silencer. This was done on one James Bond movie; the funny part was that much had been made of Bond's new Walther PPK. He had the PPK when he ducked behind a couch. When he came up, he had a Browning. Movie magic!
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Old April 22, 1999, 02:05 PM   #15
John G
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Wow! I wish ALL my guns could turn into Brownings.

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Old April 22, 1999, 07:39 PM   #16
Dorsai
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Harley,
Hate to flame you, but you did make another error that needs to be corrected. There is no such thing as a former Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine! Semper Fi!

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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
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Old April 22, 1999, 11:27 PM   #17
fubsy
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Since that removable piece is about an inch long, you have the Model 1922. FN first made the Model 1910, with a shorter barrel and grip, then potential buyers wanted a bigger mag (don't they always?) and a longer barrel. Rather than change the whole tooling setup, FN lengthened the barrel and barrel bushing, modified the frame slightly, and sold it as the Model 1922. If you look at your gun or better compare it with the 1910, you can see the "quick and dirty" way they did it.....>>
Id like to see one of those 1910's....since the first time I priced a seecamp,, I started looking real hard at that old pistol and thought that if they had shortened the barrel and the grip slightly, it would have made a great little pocket pistol, slim rounded feature, and nothing to snag--there would be a question of safety with that stricker perhaps, I dont recall if the safety just locks the slide or blocks the striker...believe it just locks the slide....aw well tks for the info ....fubsy.
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Old April 23, 1999, 05:45 AM   #18
Harley Nolden
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DORSAI:
FLAME OUT, CRASH AND BURN, MAYDAY, MAYDAY. I got the same message from my son. WooooooooooooW!

HJN
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Old April 23, 1999, 11:11 AM   #19
James K
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Good afternoon, Fusby,

The 1910s are around, lots made and they were imported before 1968. The safety locks the sear, which has to move to release the striker, so with the grip safety they are pretty safe to carry. If you like the older and slimmer guns, a Model 1903 Colt makes a good carry gun. Both guns work best in .32. Some folks deride .32 or even .380 as "mouse guns", but I have not found a volunteer to let me shoot him with one to see what it feels like.

Jim
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Old April 23, 1999, 12:13 PM   #20
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Very interesting posts. I'm lucky enough to have an '03 Pocket Hammerless and a 1910, both in good shape. These are two of my favorite guns. I can sit and sit and do nothing but admire their craftsmanship.
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Old April 23, 1999, 02:39 PM   #21
James K
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Good afternoon, Fubsy,

Just a quick apology for calling you "Fusby".

I try to get names right, even net names.

Jim
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