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Old July 4, 2011, 04:33 PM   #51
Double Naught Spy
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Very few people are actual first time offenders. They may be first time prosecutees, but they are not first time offenders
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Ask any probation or parole officer. Folks don't get busted back the first time they violate the terms--they get busted back the first time they get caught.
And so the single mistake is the single mistake of getting caught.
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Old July 4, 2011, 05:47 PM   #52
Buzzcook
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Really? Are you saying there is a bar to the average felon petitioning for a pardon?
Yes. You word it rather oddly, "petitioning", that is only the first part. Actually "getting" rights restored is the sometimes end result.

In my own state interest on unpaid court costs and fines accrues at 12%.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...ng-1177525.php
So, many ex-felons face a financial burden that they can't overcome. Lack of wealth shouldn't be a bar to the rights of citizenship.
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Old July 4, 2011, 06:26 PM   #53
Double Naught Spy
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Just how much are your court fees to petition the court?

I see the article cited is for felons who have done time but NOT paid their debt to society.

Quote:
But many are split on whether states should make it easier for ex-felons to get their rights back. The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington is suing for ex-felons to get their rights back if they have served their prison terms but owe money. But a bill addressing that issue never even made it to the House floor for debate this year.
Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...#ixzz1RBKeXyqN

So now folks are trying to get rights restored for those who haven't even paid their debt to society? Maybe next we can get their rights restored while still in prison too?

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So, many ex-felons face a financial burden that they can't overcome. Lack of wealth shouldn't be a bar to the rights of citizenship.
Court fees usually are not substantial, so a lack of wealth won't prevent felons from petitioning the court...once they have paid their debt to society.
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Old July 4, 2011, 09:55 PM   #54
Eghad
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is the money owed for restitution or to a victim?

If a guy has served his time and has truly turned his life around I could support him getting his rights back including 2A rights. If the person owes money as restitution or to a victim or to the state then I would agree with him getting his rights back as long as he makes payments that are reasonable based on his income. If he refuses to make payments without some kind of legal relief then his rights should be suspended if he has the means to make payments. Then after a period they could be terminated for refusal to pay if you have the means.

If you havent paid what you owe then you haven't completed your punishmnet.
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Old July 5, 2011, 06:55 AM   #55
oneounceload
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I do not think however that just any crime qualifies to do this and I truly belive a lot of felonys are more about being some kind of gun control than anything having to do with the crime itself.
Felonies are about gun control? You think Bernie Madoff was about gun control? That is very upside down.

Your brother did a crime. The penalties for the crime were established prior to the crime; however, as we see over and over, criminals do not think about what happens when they get caught as they typically believe they won't get caught.

Maybe you should be arguing that his particular crime shouldn't be a felony, not that his felony wasn't "felonious enough" to warrant him losing his rights


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So now folks are trying to get rights restored for those who haven't even paid their debt to society? Maybe next we can get their rights restored while still in prison too
Why Not? They are getting rights "restored" to illegal immigrants who never had them in the first place
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Old July 5, 2011, 07:36 AM   #56
1911rocks
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Free Will

Is a poor decision made in your youth nullified by time? No. How many remember the great debate in the 60s and 70s regarding the change in the age of majority from 21 to 18? The pro-18 argument was "they can be drafted but can't vote". Maybe, the argument should have been "when they hit 21 they can serve". It's still about freedom...of choice. An old acquaintance of mine said "beyond childbirth, defending your life and CPR you always have time to think about it and get counsel". Perhaps, the OPs stated case didn't know this, that's a parenting issue. I learned this lesson from my Dad. If you aren't so sure you're willing to gamble your life on it maybe you shouldn't do it. If you do it's your right and responsibility/accountability.
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:21 AM   #57
Double Naught Spy
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Why Not? They are getting rights "restored" to illegal immigrants who never had them in the first place
So stupid something stupid or wrong in one place means we should do something stupid or wrong elsewhere? That seems to be what you are implying. Sorry, but that does not sound like a good way to justify ones actions.

Of course, there is the practical downside that giving guns to prisoners just isn't very bright at all, is it?
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