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Old May 7, 2011, 11:14 AM   #1
BDS-THR
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What is the hardness of lead .22 LR bullet?

Many of us grew up/started out shooting .22 LR pistols/rifles as we were introduced to firearms. When I was shooting Ruger 10/22 rifle as a young teenager, I knew nothing about lead bullet hardness/softness and the correlation to leading.

When leading issue comes up with shooting lead bullets, I can't help but to make comparison to lead .22 LR bullets. As far as I know, lead .22 LR bullets are fairly soft (softer than most hard cast bullets we shoot) but most of us do not get leading in the rifling even when these bullets are driven to 1000+ fps.

So, what is the average hardness of lead .22 LR bullets and why do we get leading in our rifling when the softer .22 LR bullets don't?
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:18 AM   #2
WIL TERRY
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IT IS ALL in the lubrication and the FACT the 22LR ammunition companies pay very close attention to bore/groove sizes in the average new commercial 22LR guns being sold. YOU must do the same in your cast bullets.
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:20 AM   #3
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I cant answer your question about the hardness of the lead but this part of your question confuses me.

Quote:
why do we get leading in our rifling when the softer .22 LR bullets don't?
I dont know about your .22's, but mine most definately do lead foul. I have a few .22 pistols that I neglected to clean for thousands of rounds and upon inspecting the barrel, it appeared to be a smooth bore. Clean out the lead fouling and their good as new. I've seen the same effect on several .22 rifles. As far as I know, lead fouling affects ANY firearm using lead bullets.
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:22 AM   #4
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22lr lead

I captured a couple of bricks of 22s & poured em into ingot form & found em to run 7-8 bhn (soft)

Most handgun reloading under 16k-18k psi will produce acceptable results with this alloy.
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:32 AM   #5
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Wil Terry is quite correct as most 22 ammo is completly lubricated like WWs lubaloy and dimensional tolerance on most good .22s is held to tight tolerance.
In addition some .22 ammo like CCI Stingers or Remingtons Golden bullet have a copper or brass wash that provides addtional fouling protection.
Even with the lubrication and coatings though cleaning is still required depending on the amount of fouling involved; and everything fouls to some degree.
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:40 AM   #6
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Does lubrication that comes on lead .22 LR bullets stay intact on the bullet's bearing surface (part that rides the rifling) when shot out of long barreled .22 rifles?

When I examined recovered .22 LR bullets, I see rifling cuts in the soft bullet's bearing surface and shiny bare lead. Can't imagine thin lubrication being able to withstand this rifling cut and long travel down the rifle barrel ...

I am inclined to say that not getting leading in .22 LR rifles has more to do than the thin lubrication alone.
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Old May 7, 2011, 11:47 AM   #7
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Soft lead causes less leading than hard lead until you start driving it too fast. Don't ask me why.
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Old May 7, 2011, 03:20 PM   #8
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BDS, you are inclined to say that because you fail to understand the physics of lubrication on bullets.
The lubricant as applied when it goes down the barrel leaves a lubricant film behind for the next shot coming thru which then leaves the next lubricant film for the next shot and so on. The principal is the same with cast bullets as the lubricant on the bullet is not for just the current bullet but the one after.

Depending on numerous factors the point at which the film strength breaks down and can no longer provide protection to the bare steel is the point when lead fouling will start and continue to build.

Starting with a properly broken in clean barrel and prelubing with a film of lubricant gets the whole thing off to a good start.

On the Rimfire Central forum there are even barrel coating products designed to bond at the molecular level to the steel to provide that barrier.
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Old May 7, 2011, 04:11 PM   #9
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Seems like some Lead 22s are lubed with a better lube than others, but I am sure that there is a lot to it. Like most things with lead bullets, I am sure that bore fit has a lot to do with it too. I have noticed that hard or soft, if a bullet has good fit to the bore, it doesnt lead. I was always under the impression that 22s used a dead soft lead, like single digit BHN number, nearly pure lead. I dont recall offhand but it seems like pure lead is about a 5 or so, if I remember correctly.
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Old May 7, 2011, 04:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS-THR
I am inclined to say that not getting leading in .22 LR rifles has more to do than the thin lubrication alone.
I am not asking for some "super-duper" barrel surface technology solution. Were the lead .22 LR bullets coated when they were first introduced?

This is simply a basic question where average .22 LR rifle barrel won't lead when shot with softer .22 LR lead bullet driven to 1000+ fps velocities out of long rifle barrels but we experience leading shooting hard cast lead bullets out of our short barreled pistols under 1000 fps.

So, here's the OP again (with some clarification):

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS-THR
What is the average hardness of lead .22 LR bullets and why do we get leading in our rifling [of short barreled pistol barrels] when the softer .22 LR bullets don't [lead longer rifle barrels]?
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Old May 7, 2011, 04:43 PM   #11
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You are trying to compare apples to oranges here.
I can't speak to whether .22s when first introduced had lube on them but tend to believe that they did.

The variables involved between .22s and centerfire pistols shooting lead bullets are too numerous to go into here.

Your base assumption that .22s don't "lead" is wrong. Everything fouls to some degree. The amount depends on numerous variables.

Fitment, lubrication, barrel condition,length, powder speed, pressure,heat are just some of the physics involved and the laws of physics are the same for all of us.
Some guns can foul in as little as 5 -10 shots and others could go hundreds of rounds with nary a hint of fouling.

Then there is the whole issue of the types of lead fouling and these are varied and each one can have specific causes and cures that have to be addressed individually.

A quick search shows that .22 ammo runs at a low 24,000 psi loadings generating the velocity in a long barrel which also indicates a slower powder.

Fast powders generating 1000fps in short barrels is going to be higher pressures than that. As pressure goes up so does heat. basic physics.
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Old May 7, 2011, 05:17 PM   #12
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All .22 Short, Long, and Long Rifle bullets start out swaged, AFAIK, whether they are subsequently plated with Luballoy (Winchester's original alternative to cupro-nickel jacket metal for cup and core bullets) or copper or brass before lubrication. The swaging process usually uses fairly soft alloys, though it is not uncommon to add a couple of percent or so of antimony to harden them a little. I know that's close to what you see in chilled shot (3% antimony) but shot also has arsenic in it and is water quenched hard, while neither is the case for the lead alloy wire used in swaged bullets. So, BHN 6-7 is a reasonable result. It's still soft enough to slug a bore with, so it's pretty soft.

I've heard it suggested that some brands of .22 LR are harder than others. That's technically possible as it's possible to swage harder alloys than are normally used, but I doubt that it's usually desirable to do so. Short, Long, and Long Rifle use heeled bullets whose bearing surface diameter (0.2215"-0.2255") is specified at only half a thousandth under the case diameter (0.2220"-0.2260"), and, at the low end are actually smaller than bore groove diameter (0.2220"-0.2240"). The chamber itself is 0.2270"-0.2290" diameter before the taper of the throat. So, the bullet has to be soft enough to bump up to handle extra space where it encounters such, or leading will be made worse by gas bypass. A fast enough powder combined with a soft enough alloy are required to bump the bullet up to obturate the bore.

The lubrication, I assume, has always been used on .22's back to the original Short cartridge. Probably just beeswax or a mix of beeswax and tallow early on, though Bee's wax and graphite have been on some swaged lead bullets. Certainly 19th century bullet molds had lube grooves, so it's not like it was a secret, even then, that some kind of lubrication is needed for lead bullets that had no paper patch, and even with paper it helps to have some. The Afghanistan resistance was given to rumors during the second war with the British (and maybe in the first, as well, but they mainly had smooth bore muskets then, so I don't know) that the British lubricated their bullets with pork fat, thus condemning the devout Muslim jihadi struck by one to be denied admission to paradise. It was actually mutton fat that was normally used, but the rumors helped agitate against the British occupation.
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Old May 7, 2011, 06:06 PM   #13
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Very interesting responses ... all for the "humble" .22 LR.


Mr. Palermo, I started this thread in compliance to Shane's request that I start a new thread on specific bullets. This thread aims to look at leading issues, or lack of, in reference to the softer lead .22 LR bullet. Your participation in this thread, like many other posters who have offered their opinions and explanations, is welcome; but your directed statements below don't help me better examine the OP issue and would rather irritate or "pibb" off most Original Posters:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Palermo
BDS, ... you fail to understand the physics of lubrication on bullets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Palermo
Your base assumption that .22s don't "lead" is wrong.
Open forum discussions evaluate opinions/explanations of many to arrive at a general consensus and/or an individual conclusion. It is not a dictatorial classroom instruction where we sit and write down everything what one person dictates, whether right or wrong.

"Forum Discussion" from Wikipedia:
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Forums prefer a premise of open and free discussion and often adopt de facto standards. Most common topics on forums include questions, comparisons, polls of opinion as well as debates. It is not uncommon for nonsense or unsocial behavior to sprout as people lose temper, especially if the topic is controversial. Poor understanding of differences in values of the participants is a common problem on forums. Because replies to a topic are often worded aimed at someone's point of view, discussion will usually go slightly off into several directions as people question each others' validity, sources and so on. Circular discussion and ambiguity in replies can extend for several tens of posts of a thread eventually ending when everyone gives up or attention spans waver and a more interesting subject takes over. It is not uncommon for debate to end in ad hominem attacks.
--------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Palermo
Fitment, lubrication, barrel condition,length, powder speed, pressure,heat are just some of the physics involved and the laws of physics are the same for all of us.
Getting back to OP. What about the OP issue of softness of lead .22 LR bullet?

Thankfully, Unclenick offered a very insightful explanation as to why a softer lead .22 LR bullet would not lead in the rifling in response to my inquiry statement of (BTW, this kind of discussion is what "forum" discussion is all about, offering responses "pertinent" to the "original post", not telling the OP that he/she is wrong):
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS-THR
I am inclined to say that not getting leading in .22 LR rifles has more to do than the thin lubrication alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
So, BHN 6-7 is a reasonable result. It's still soft enough to slug a bore with, so it's pretty soft ... Short, Long, and Long Rifle use heeled bullets whose bearing surface diameter (0.2215"-0.2255") is specified at only half a thousandth under the case diameter (0.2220"-0.2260"), and, at the low end are actually smaller than bore groove diameter (0.2220"-0.2240"). The chamber itself is 0.2270"-0.2290" diameter before the taper of the throat. So, the bullet has to be soft enough to bump up to handle extra space where it encounters such. That means a fast powder and a soft enough alloy are required to bump the bullet up to obturate the bore.

Last edited by BDS-THR; May 7, 2011 at 06:14 PM. Reason: added link
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Old May 7, 2011, 06:36 PM   #14
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BDS, You are asking for a simple answer to a complex question.
The fact that you don't like the answers you get is of your own interpertation.
I have tried to provide insight into what is a complex question.
Such things may be beyond your level of comprehension and if thats the case you can just choose to ignore my answers.

You want to draw a comparison between lead high velocity 22s and centerfire handguns wondering why there is lead issues with one and not with the other and thats a position I can't agree with.
I have never seen any firearm that did not foul. And the degree of fouling and the cause and cures can be researched for years to gain an understanding.

My suggestion is that you start with some research into the fundamentals and build your knowledge base from there. Then you can post questions that might be more narrow and be answered more easily for you.

I am no expert on .22 ammo although I have a pretty good working knowledge of .22s and shoot several high performance .22s and I can tell you that they all foul to some degree.

I am an expert on lead fouling in handguns and have helped thousands of people resolve those issues.

Uncle Nicks explanation was quite good but I did not read anywhere in his posting that the 22 does not foul. perhaps he could expand on this point?

If you have a more specific problem it might be better if you post that question rather than too general of one here and trying to draw some referances from generalised answers.
Like Shane said : Be Specific.
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Old May 7, 2011, 07:06 PM   #15
BDS-THR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Palermo
My suggestion is that you start with some research into the fundamentals and build your knowledge base from there. Then you can post questions that might be more narrow and be answered more easily for you.
OMG. Mr. Palermo, this is not a college lecture class where I need "prerequisite" to attend. This is merely an internet gun "forum" thread where anyone who joins to be a member can post anything within the guidelines of the forum rules.

As far as I know, TFL forum rules do not require a poster to do "research" before starting a thread or to ask questions on a thread. Be real. Forum moderators do not dictate what content members post, but facilitate the thread discussions and help when needed. Shane "suggested" that I start a new thread and I did. What I post in this thread is not dictated by Shane, but me as the Original Poster of the thread. I welcome anyone's contribution to this thread whether they be opinions, personal experiences or theories; but I would appreciate they stick to the OP's specifics of softness of lead .22 LR bullet and leading, or lack there of. But I do not appreciate degrading and demeaning comments, such as ones you made, against forum rules.

Having lurked quite a few gun forums the past few years, I recognize and value the opinions and discussions of many OTHER members here who rather demonstrate knowledge and experience rather than demand them. I would be interested in hearing their comments, instead of yours alone telling me that I am wrong. I am here to learn and share information with others about my hobby and passion of shooting and reloading.

Peace.

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The moderators (short singular form: "mod") are users (or employees) of the forum who are granted access to the posts and threads of all members for the purpose of moderating discussion (similar to arbitration) and also keeping the forum clean (neutralizing spam and spambots etc.). Because they have access to all posts and threads in their area of responsibility, it is common for a friend of the site owner to be promoted to moderator for such a task. Moderators also answer users' concerns about the forum, general questions, as well as respond to specific complaints. They also can do anything to lend a helping hand to a user in need.

Essentially, it is the duty of the moderator to manage the day-to-day affairs of a forum or board as it applies to the stream of user contributions and interactions. The relative effectiveness of this user management directly impacts the quality of a forum in general, its appeal, and its usefulness as a community of interrelated users.
----------------

Now, back to the discussion at hand:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
So, BHN 6-7 is a reasonable result. It's still soft enough to slug a bore with, so it's pretty soft ... Short, Long, and Long Rifle use heeled bullets whose bearing surface diameter (0.2215"-0.2255") is specified at only half a thousandth under the case diameter (0.2220"-0.2260"), and, at the low end are actually smaller than bore groove diameter (0.2220"-0.2240"). The chamber itself is 0.2270"-0.2290" diameter before the taper of the throat. So, the bullet has to be soft enough to bump up to handle extra space where it encounters such. That means a fast powder and a soft enough alloy are required to bump the bullet up to obturate the bore.
So the softer lead .22 LR bullet "forms" to the rifling when fired to tightly seal against the barrel bore.

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Old May 7, 2011, 07:32 PM   #16
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Maybe this answer will satisfy mr. BDS.

As I said on your other thread over on THR, the 22 rimfire lead I have is 8 BHN.

I could cast any centerfire hand gun bullet with that soft 22 lead, and drive it at 1500 fps WITHOUT leading. So your blank statement that it won't lead a 22 barrel, but would lead if fired in lets say a .357 mag is false.

I did just such a thing once with a 45 colt Ruger blackhawk. A Lyman 255 grain SWC hollow point mold was cast with pure lead. It's a gas check bullet, it had GC's installed and was lubed with 50-50 NRA formula beeswax-alox. I drove those bullets hard, got 1450 fps without leading. The bore had a gray wash in the bottoms of the rifling, it came out with normal cleaning with a bronze brush and hoppe's #9.

I was trying to duplicate 44 mag performance, which I did. They were also quite accurate. What's the secret? Fit to the cylinder throats and proper sizing. Along with the right lube and the right powder. I used IMR-4756. I don't have that revolver any more, so I can't duplicate it.

I just may do it again with some current revolvers. Just so I can say with current techniques I can drive soft lead bullets to magnum velocities without leading. Should be a good answer to those "hard cast" myths. You know, those that say you must have "hard cast" to shoot fast without leading. I wanna puke every time I hear that!
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Old May 7, 2011, 07:55 PM   #17
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Snuffy points out why home hobbiests have more lattitude with cast bullets than commercial casters can offer. The NRA lube is excellent in lubrication but far too soft for commercial use.

Bullets with larger lube reservoirs than commercial bullets can overcome a soft alloys leading problems.
Soft swagged bullets with dry lube could never be driven the way Snuffy has driven his bullets with the NRA lube and gas checks.
He has covered all the bases with fitment, lubrication and load and accuracy.

Commercial casters run harder alloys and harder lubes which imposes more demands upon the loader to develop suitable loads for those bullets.

A limitation not shared by the home caster.

To BDS. My suggestion was to help you to help yourself. You aren't required to do anything that you don't want to do. There was no demeaning involved and sorry you took it that way.
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Old May 7, 2011, 10:05 PM   #18
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Mr. Palermo, maybe TFL members are too polite to point this out to you. On a typical online gun forum threads, end users like me don't necessarily want to hear the intricate aspects of the manufacturing process of a commercial lead bullet caster and the "challenges and technical difficulties" they may experience.

We are gun hobbyist, not manufacturers. We often engage in thread discussions just to toss some ideas around to pass the time we can't use to reload or shoot. For some, it is a way of "socializing" with other reloaders/shooters. When we are at the range, we can readily identify other reloaders by the equipment they bring in their range bags and their range behavior (only reloaders pickup their brass).

If you look at the response posts to thread questions, they vary wildly from being right on the money to being completely off the topic and sometimes with a very humorous comment tossed in at the expense of the OP.

I started this thread to reminisce our first experience with lead bullets, which most likely was the lead .22 LR bullet. Although it may be a "humble" round most of us won't shoot anymore, it's components and mechanics translate to the larger caliber lead bullets. If it works for .22 LR bullet, most of it will translate to 9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets.

Leading issues in pistol barrels come up frequently and often incomplete and incorrect information are tossed in the thread which confuses the already frustrated poster. I now clear the air by some excerpts from Glen E. Fryxell's articles to reestablish some reference lines and redirect the resolution identification process to help the posters resolve their leading issues.

Here's one such excerpt:
Quote:
There are very, very few revolver applications that require a BHN of over 20. In my experience, revolver leading can almost always be traced to some other factor (inadequate lubrication, improper sizing, barrel/frame constriction, etc.). Only very rarely is barrel leading caused by the bullet being too soft. In support of this claim, let me point out that many muzzle loaders prefer bullets cast from 30-to-1 alloy (which is quite soft, BHN of about 9) and these smokepole slugs are routinely driven to 1300-1400 fps. In addition, high-velocity .22 Long Rifle ammo uses an even softer bullet at over 1200 fps (and if a .22 leads, it's a gun problem, not an ammo problem). Elmer Keith's favorite cast bullet alloy was 16-to-1 lead/tin, which has a BHN of only 11. This is the alloy that gave a roaring birth to the .44 Magnum using plain-based cast bullets loaded to 1400+ fps. Properly loaded and lubed, Elmer's alloy will leave a magnum revolver barrel shiny and clean after a long day shooting.
I am trying to survey the vast personal experiences of TFL members to get a general consensus "feel" as to what has worked for them and why. If you watch any game shows, usually, audience poll answer that produces a majority is usually the right answer. As an end user of reloading components, I am interested in what works for the majority of other end users and their individual experience and comments. When new shooters ask me what they should do to improve their game, I tell them to locate the shooter that outshoots everyone at the match/range and spend some time with him/her, NOT the loudest commentator who can't shoot well. There are good reasons why that particular shooter is shooting better than everyone else and hearing what those reasons are will be very beneficial to new shooters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffy
You know, those that say you must have "hard cast" to shoot fast without leading. I wanna puke every time I hear that!
Yes, thank you for your pertinent response.

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Old May 8, 2011, 01:00 AM   #19
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BDS, I think the answer is that its a combination of soft lead allowing complete obturation and the lube used. What seems to be lead stripping off is really just the bullet fully filling the grooves of the rifling because it is so soft. I would be interested in seeing someone shoot and recover a 22lr projectile. Take that projectile and measure the diameter of it, and the diameter of a bullet pulled from an unfired round.
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Yes, thank you for your pertinent response.
Don't get the answer you wanted, so you throw it back in my face!

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Old May 8, 2011, 01:07 AM   #21
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BDS, when you ask a question on an open forum ,you can't control the reponses you will get on that forum. Each person will respond based on thier expieriance and knowledge in an effort to answer your question. Mine comes from having been a serious hobbiest to a now a full time commercial Mfg.
This provides insights and perspectives from a wide range that many appreciate.

You often cite Frexells comments in your posts as if the statements made by him are definitive answers and "clears the air" which explains everything when in point of fact you are quoting opinions without explanation as to why the author believes these statements to be true. You never quote Frexells reasons why he believes these things to be true nor do you offer any explanation yourself as to why they should be true.
You provide no technical expertise or explanation yourself to support the reasons you quote him. (By the way you are also reprinting his copywrited information in violation of the forums rules on copyrights) Your failure to provide such just leaves more questions as to why.

Your comments about the humble .22 not being used much anymore is a gross misunderstatement. Spend some time at Rimfire Central to gain some wider range of insights.

When I make statements I try to back those reasons up with the necessary technical facts so that those who read them can understand the "Why this is so." Having done so for these past 20+ years and helping thousands of people; no one has ever complained about my explanations or help.

I have commeneted on Frexells comments before providing the explanation that you have left out each time you cite him.
In addtion I'll let you in on something else. Frexell is not the only "expert" out there.
So unless you have any further comments to share with us I will consider my participation in this thread at an end.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:28 AM   #22
BDS-THR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffy
Don't get the answer you wanted, so you throw it back in my face!
Not at all. Your post was indeed pertinent and self-evident. I just didn't want to repost the entire post.

Quote:
... the 22 rimfire lead I have is 8 BHN. I could cast any centerfire hand gun bullet with that soft 22 lead, and drive it at 1500 fps WITHOUT leading. So your blank statement that it won't lead a 22 barrel, but would lead if fired in lets say a .357 mag is false.
Yes, this is exactly the premise of the thread. A softer lead alloy like the one that's used in .22 LR SHOULD NOT cause leading when driven to most pistol velocities.

Quote:
I did just such a thing once with a 45 colt Ruger blackhawk. A Lyman 255 grain SWC hollow point mold was cast with pure lead. It's a gas check bullet, it had GC's installed and was lubed with 50-50 NRA formula beeswax-alox. I drove those bullets hard, got 1450 fps without leading. The bore had a gray wash in the bottoms of the rifling, it came out with normal cleaning with a bronze brush and hoppe's #9.

I was trying to duplicate 44 mag performance, which I did. They were also quite accurate. What's the secret? Fit to the cylinder throats and proper sizing. Along with the right lube and the right powder.
A post based on actual personal experience. And pure lead is soft indeed!

Quote:
I just may do it again with some current revolvers. Just so I can say with current techniques I can drive soft lead bullets to magnum velocities without leading. Should be a good answer to those "hard cast" myths. You know, those that say you must have "hard cast" to shoot fast without leading. I wanna puke every time I hear that!
Yes, very pertinent post.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:45 AM   #23
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The gentlemen involved in this thread so far, show a vast amount of experience well beyond that of myself. That being said, I still feel compelled to share my experience as this statement puzzles me.

Quote:
A softer lead alloy like the one that's used in .22 LR SHOULD NOT cause leading when driven to most pistol velocities.
Am I to understand this to mean that a (generalized of course) .22 LR pistol barrel should not lead foul when using standard ammunition? I have personally turned the rifled barrel of my Walther P22 into a smoothbore several times with the 'fouling' from thousands of rounds without cleaning using nothing but standard velocity round nose lead ammunition. Was this not lead fouling?
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Old May 8, 2011, 08:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenick
So, BHN 6-7 is a reasonable result. It's still soft enough to slug a bore with, so it's pretty soft ... Short, Long, and Long Rifle use heeled bullets whose bearing surface diameter (0.2215"-0.2255") is specified at only half a thousandth under the case diameter (0.2220"-0.2260"), and, at the low end are actually smaller than bore groove diameter (0.2220"-0.2240"). The chamber itself is 0.2270"-0.2290" diameter before the taper of the throat. So, the bullet has to be soft enough to bump up to handle extra space where it encounters such. That means a fast powder and a soft enough alloy are required to bump the bullet up to obturate the bore.
So, with snuffy's post based on an actual experience that softer .22 LR like lead/alloy driven to pistol velocities without leading and Unclenick's post explaining that .22 LR bullet diameter maybe smaller than barrel bore diameter thus the .22 LR bullet must bump/expand/obturate sheds more light on the premise that what happens with .22 LR bullet translates to larger caliber pistol bullet.

Most lead pistol bullets are sized .001" larger than the bore (45ACP barrel bore diameter at .451" with .452" bullet). So, even with the larger diameter of the lead bullet providing "tighter" fit to the barrel, why does leading occur if the same mechanism and "physics" with .22 LR bullet apply to larger caliber pistol bullets?

I have wondered about this.

Many post that lead bullets sized .001" over bore cast from softer lead alloy like wheel weights with thinly coated liquid lube like Alox will not lead the barrel. I have read enough confirming posts on various forums/threads to accept this as fact like an audience poll survey indicating a majority vote.

If this is true, it would further support the .22 LR to larger pistol caliber and leading premise of the thread.
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Old May 8, 2011, 08:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter4Life
I have personally turned the rifled barrel of my Walther P22 into a smoothbore several times with the 'fouling' from thousands of rounds without cleaning using nothing but standard velocity round nose lead ammunition. Was this not lead fouling?
Yes, I would consider that extreme lead fouling.
Quote:
I have ... turned the ... barrel ... into a smoothbore several times ... from thousands of rounds without cleaning using ... standard velocity round nose lead ammunition
Did you inspect the barrel to see when (what round count) the leading started within the thousands of rounds you fired and what may have caused it?

Many have shot a box or two (500-1000) out of their .22 LR rifles without extreme leading as your case.

As Glen Fryxell stated, if you get leading with .22 LR ammunition, it is a gun problem not an ammunition problem.
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