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Old October 23, 1998, 02:13 PM   #1
Rich Lucibella
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OK, let me see if I can't help stir things up here. I've been the beneficiary of EW courses with Kevin McClung of Mad Dog Tactical ( http://www.mdenterprise.com/ ) and I currently train with Forum Member, Hilton, in Dog Brothers, Filipino, and various other styles of armed and unarmed conflict resolution.

I was introduced to the concept of the cane as a practical CQB weapon by Kevin McClung. As Kevin pointed out, a decent cane, purchased at any yard or tag sale, can make a rather formidable weapon in the right hands...better than a "Tactical Folder"; perhaps superior to a fixed blade fighter.

I did some research after the seminar and found a company called CaneMasters that makes hickory and oak fighting canes. These are indistinguishable from the common therapeutic cane, except for a wider crook, semi-sharpened hook and pattern for a hand grip. I now own 3 of these...think I'm hooked?

I've since taken up one on one lessons in use of the cane with a Kung Fu Master. Though, I'm hardly more proficient than I would be with a 32oz Louisville Slugger, I "endeavor to persevere". I highly recommend this item for occasions when a firearm or suitable edged weapon is not available...eg: travel to foreign countries like Ca, NY, MA, NJ. The cane is innocuous looking and requires no feigned "limp" to remain so. Once you get used to it in your hand, it becomes virtually unnoticed by the public.

I recently carried a custom combat cane on a trip to Las Vegas. While airport security repeatedly challenged, measured, discussed and eventually returned my large Sebenza, they never gave the cane a second glance. Neither did the hotel or casino personnel. This is a weapon worth considering.

Mark Shuey from CaneMasters may be reached at http://www.canemasters.com/ . If you're lucky enough to talk to him personally, tell him I said hello and invite him to drop by.

Rich Lucibella

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Old October 23, 1998, 02:38 PM   #2
o1paw
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Rich,
I think the fighting cane can be a formidable weapon, indeed, in the right hands. I have no practical knowledge of them, but its worthy of a closer look. I am rather proficiant with the Katana, having taken Kenjutsi for 2 1/2 years (just scratching the surface) and am thinking of getting a sword cane since that would be more familiar to me. I realize though, that a sword cane probably wouldnt pass the scrutiny of some security personnel while flying. In that case your choice would be the better. Incidentally, have you ever seen "The Killer Elite" with James Caan? Some good cane action in that. I thought I read somewhere that he acctually attended a Dojo somewhere to learn proper technique, but I may be wrong.
Take care,
o1paw
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Old October 23, 1998, 02:40 PM   #3
ShadedDude
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Now this looks like something I have to look into.

Thanks for the heads up Rich!
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Old October 23, 1998, 02:53 PM   #4
Rich Lucibella
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paw-
Hope you don't mind the familiarity....can't tell if that's an "0" or an "o". Indeed I remember the movie (with James Caan, Robert Duval and Mako). My recollection was that the style was Korean Hwa Rang Do, though I won't swear to this. The Japanese and Chinese also have cane styles. (CaneMasters offers a fairly good video training set...to the extent that video training can be termed "good". The style is Japanese)

I seem to recall that one of the Billy Jack movies also featured a Korean practitioner (Joo Bang Lee? He Il Cho?), with some great cane fighting sequences.
Rich



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Old October 23, 1998, 03:31 PM   #5
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Rich,
Besides the hook part, I done see how that is an advantage over an ASP baton. ASPs are collapsable, you can even carry them concealed untill needed. And I have never seen an ASP break. But I have seen ASPs break other things!
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Old October 23, 1998, 03:44 PM   #6
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Rich,

Have you created a mount for the cane on your motorcycles yet, and are you bringing them this weekend?

Looking forward to it.

Blues
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Old October 23, 1998, 04:10 PM   #7
Rich Lucibella
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Kodiac-
ASP's are not legal for carry everywhere. As you point out, the ASP has no sharp hook, which can be really neat at grappling distances. ASP's require a split second to deploy. The cane is already in your hand. Regarding breakage, Clint Eastwood said it best: "Nothing like a good piece of hickory".

I'm not extolling the virtues of the cane *over* the ASP Baton, mind you. I only offer it up as one more tactical alternative in an increasingly hoplophobic world.

Blues-
Thought you'd never ask! Actually, all it takes is three 6" bungies and one length of foam pipe insulation from Home Depot. The insulation sheath and cane can be attached to the saddle back top rack in seconds. After that, you slide it out (like a sword), when you get off, and slide it back in before you get on. Had it with me constantly during a 2 week bike trip to MN and ND in August.

As this weekend's trip will be in Free America, I'll opt for the Glock 29. If the unthinkable happens, I'd prefer to back you up with that . I may have been born at nite, but not last nite!
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 10-23-98).]
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Old October 23, 1998, 05:34 PM   #8
o1paw
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Rich,
It's supposed to be 01paw( one paw), but I inadvertantly pushed the "oh" instead of the zero and, well, just been to lazy to change it and its kinda stuck. I dont mind the familiarity at all. You can call me 'Paw, 01paw, whatever. Just please dont call me ol'paw(as in old paw-common mistake considering my typing snafu) before my time I think I'll check out those sites you listed. Sounds like an interesting art.
01paw
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Old October 23, 1998, 07:45 PM   #9
Spectre
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Hello, gentlemen. Rich, Blues, good to see you. I can say that Bujinkan budo- which primarily focuses on "low observability" weapons and tactics- teaches the 3 foot stick or "hanbo" almost immediately. I feel that a straight stick is a little more versatile, but the cane is undeniably more covert.

Kodiac, while it is true that ASP batons are more size-efficient, that is a mixed blessing when the chips are down. 35 inches beats 21 or 26, and while the ASP is indeed more compact, the cane will be in your hand, and thus, more accessible.
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Old October 24, 1998, 08:42 PM   #10
4V50
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The cane has been the choice of the homeless for years and why not? They get them free from the armory, aka: Health Department. Gee doc, my leg is hurting and I can't put much weight on it. Thankfully, unlike Col. Applegate (bless his soul and may he RIP), they don't know how to use it and with a PR24 and a .45, you'll always have the advantage.
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Old October 24, 1998, 09:57 PM   #11
Rich Lucibella
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Welcome again(?) Mr. Spectre. Don't be a stranger...you're needed!
Regards,
Rich
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Old October 25, 1998, 04:05 AM   #12
HS
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Rich, do those canes come in Polymer with night sites and an armourers course ? Are they single/ double or DAO? Sorry, couldn't resist... ...HS (Gordon)
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Old October 25, 1998, 08:57 AM   #13
Rich Lucibella
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No, but mine has a small thermonuclear device embedded in the tip .
Rich
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Old October 25, 1998, 12:01 PM   #14
o1paw
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Rich,
Thermonuclear device on the tip? WHERE DO I GET ONE?!? (Big bang, big bang)
01paw
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Old October 30, 1998, 12:30 AM   #15
Spectre
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Kodiac,

An additional advantage (besides length, legality, and faster reaction time) of the cane over an ASP is leverage. The expandable baton is utilized one-handed. A cane or 3-foot stick can be wielded with two hands, and a LOT more power- and accuracy under stress- can be had.
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Old October 30, 1998, 01:56 AM   #16
Rob Pincus
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Back in the day I used to practice techniques using what we called a Jo staff, similar to a Bo, but about half the length. I have continued to work with Escrima sticks, which are probably a little shorter than the canes. I checked out the canemasters site and I just can't get used to the thought of that hook. I will expect a good demostration when we all get together (sooner than later, I hope), okay Rich???

Meanwhile, this conversation is really re-kindling my interest in carrying a cane (straight one, at least for now...) I just cannot see myself getting away with walking around with a cane, unless I am also wearing a top hat and/or limping. Survival Rule number one is "don't get noticed, no one will bother you". I just can't imagine walking through the mall with a cane without at least dragging a leg a little bit to explain it.

To me it would be like walking around with one of those Mini-Golfcart-Oxygen rigs, just in case I needed to blow something up. And If I did that, I would feel a need to wheeze and cough I guess.
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Old October 30, 1998, 10:01 AM   #17
Kodiac
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I think I could go for a cane now...
Ouch, limp, ouch...
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Old October 30, 1998, 10:21 AM   #18
Rich Lucibella
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Rob-
Wish I was as proficient with the hook as I should be. I haven't taken full advantage of the 1 on 1 training offered by a local Kung Fu master. I hope to pick it up again soon. Currently, I'm training with Hilton in various styles, including Filipino stick arts. I would tend to use the cane in line with that training. However, you can use your imagination to see the hooks advantage at grappling distances.

Regarding the walking stick style cane, I believe this attracts far more attention and would might result in a stop at an airport or in certain jusisdictions.

I got comfortable carrying the cane without any feigned limp after taking it to a busy mall on a shopping trip. Nobody gave it a second glance, including the armed security at the jewelry store. YMMV
Rich
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Old October 30, 1998, 01:21 PM   #19
longhair
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Rob, some friends and i have a cane that's made out of a pool cue and has a 2 ball on it. one buddy takes his to the VA with him when he goes. i've taken mine to a mall, and while i felt a little uncomfortable an conspicious, nobody paid any attention to it.
but as the ol' sayin' goes YMMV!
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Old October 30, 1998, 05:59 PM   #20
Spectre
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Cold Steel has made some wickedly effective canes. Their "Purple Heart" cane is gorgeous, and has a rounded head, not a crook. I like it. One can quickly and easily make a cane with a support grip, and can even make it look civilized with an hour's work.
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Old October 31, 1998, 01:20 AM   #21
HS
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Apart from the thermo nuculear tipped cane, how 'bout a .410 version ? SUPRISE !...grin, nudge ...HS
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Old October 31, 1998, 01:29 AM   #22
Rob Pincus
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there is a very cool .45 calibre civil war era cane in an antique shop in Nashville, the guy wants a lot of Dough for it though. It is very high quality, and has a little fold out trigger.
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Old October 31, 1998, 09:28 AM   #23
Rich Lucibella
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If you're gonna carry a firearm, carry a firearm and leave the cane at home. If you can't carry a firearm, you'd hardly want one concealed in the cane.

I've seen some of gun canes and sword canes...neat items but, IMHO, novelty interest only.
Rich
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Old October 31, 1998, 12:26 PM   #24
Rob Pincus
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oh, definitely, I wouldn't want a civil war era firearm for self defense either!
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Old October 31, 1998, 02:18 PM   #25
Marcus
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I have to agree that the cane can be a great weapon. Some years ago I blew my knee out at work and had to hobble around for quite some time. I hate crutches so I had a family friend ,who made canes as a hobby, make me up a custom cane. It`s made of hickory,has a slight twist to it so that it actually fits the contour of my leg a bit for support and has a large semi flat topped knob at the top carved to fit my hand. The bottom is capped with a crutch tip for stability. It was made out of a single piece that fit the bill. It`s very sturdy,pretty,and once scared off a fellow intent on picking a fight with me in a mall parking lot. You guys are getting me in the mood to break it out again and practice a few moves. Marcus
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