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Old December 14, 2005, 12:01 PM   #1
steve1589
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Need info on single barrel shotgun

I got in a single barrel shotgun yesterday that needs a hammer spring and retaining screw and also tang screw. The gun has no manufactors name on it. It has [KK] on the left side of the receiver and patent dates on the right side. Dec15 91 Aug11 96 Aug14 00 May27 02. The gun has a takedown screw that has large circle attached to it that flips up out of a cut out in the receiver that you use to remove the screw instead of a screwdriver. The trigger guard has an intergral screw on the front of the guard and a screw at the rear like a double barrel shotgun trigger guard. The fore end comes off by removing one screw. The fore end iron is held on by one screw through the barrel lug. They are not screwed together like most single barrels. At first glance it looks like an Iver Johnson except it has an open tang like a Marlin 336 instead of one long stock bolt. There is a serial # on it. And the number 12 on the barrel just ahead of the fore end on the bottom. It also uses a screw to hold the hammer in place instead of a pin. I hope that is enough info.Thanks.
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Old December 23, 2005, 11:11 PM   #2
James K
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I have seen a couple of those "no name" shotguns like you describe, but I have no idea who made it. (Those dates are 1891, 1900, of course, not 1991 and 2000.) I think if you really want to, you will have to make both the screws and the spring. The Brownells screw blank pack should help on the screws. I would talk to the customer and see if he really wants the gun fixed, as making parts is expensive and the gun is not really worth it. If he tells you to go ahead, ask for a hefty deposit up front. He will probably change his mind when he realizes the cost involved.

I say this because it is common for guys to bring in old guns that "belonged to grandpa" and ask to have them fixed "for sentimental reasons." After you put a couple of hundred dollars in parts and labor into a $25 shotgun and give them the bill, they forget about "grandpa", tell you where you can shove the gun, and walk out.

Also, the gun may well have a damascus or laminated barrel, and if so, I don't recommend firing it.

Jim
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Old December 24, 2005, 10:37 PM   #3
pipoman
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This particular gun has collector interest outside the gun collecting world. It is a Simmons Hardware gun. Simmons is best known for their trade name Keen Kutter. Keen Kutter is very collectible, I have been collecting KK items for some 20 years. This item is fairly rare. Even in non-working condition I would estimate the value to a KK collector at around $200 in working condition $350-$400. I have seen less than 3 examples of this gun in over 15 years of collecting KK at the national level.
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Old December 26, 2005, 10:21 PM   #4
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Great answer, pipoman. Just goes to show the diversity of interest and widespread knowledge here.

Jim
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Old January 1, 2006, 12:14 AM   #5
pipoman
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Here is an auction of a KK gun on ebay. The gun has had the firing pin removed and the hole welded. This gun will almost certainly sell to a Keen Kutter collector. To most gun collectors this gun is a "tomato stake" for the garden.


KK Gun on Ebay
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Old January 1, 2006, 03:08 PM   #6
Harley Nolden
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As I red this post, I also found that Hopkins & Allen made these shotguns for Shapleigh Hardware Co.

HJN
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Old January 1, 2006, 04:02 PM   #7
Harley Nolden
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Mr Pipoman:

Oh MY: Forgive my manners. Welcome to the Institute. We look forward to your knowledge and expertice.

Harley
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Old January 1, 2006, 07:41 PM   #8
pipoman
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Hi Harley,
If this gun was produced prior to 1940, Shapleigh Hardware would have had no part of putting "KK" on anything. Shapleigh Hardware Co. arch rival Simmons Hardware used the "KK" theme exclusively. Keen Kutter was the first of the KK theme names, there was also Klipper Klub, King Koaster, korn Krusher, Koffee Krusher, Kool King, etc,ect. Shapleigh Hardware bought Simmons Hardware Co. in 1940. After 1940 Shapleigh did produce Keen Kutter and some of the other KK items.

I know nothing about Hopkins & Allen, were they in existence after 1940?

Is the gun on ebay pre or post 1940?

Thanks

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Old January 1, 2006, 07:50 PM   #9
pipoman
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Another question which has come up at hardware meets is: The Simmons on the butt plate on the ebay gun. Is this Simmons the scope maker or is it Simmons Hardware? Is the script of the name consistant with the scope maker? It really is not like the script normally used by Simmons Hardware Co.


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Old January 2, 2006, 03:24 AM   #10
Harley Nolden
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PIPOMAN:

According to the dates indicated (1891-96) & ( 1902) Hopkins & Allen could have made the Gun. H&A went out of business, bought by Marlin, in 1921. It could be possible that the KK was carried over, as was the case in many of these hardware guns. Could we also possibly consider that the butt plate was added after market, creating a "Jerry Rig" condition for collector purposes?

Correct me if this is incorrect, but wasn't Simons in business from 1875-1930? These dates would put it into perspective. Possibly a photo of a known Simmons butt plate would present the correct signature on the piece.

Harley
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Old January 2, 2006, 10:47 AM   #11
pipoman
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Simmons Hardware was in business from 1872 to 1940. Shapleigh Hardware was in business from 1843 to 1960.

1922 to 1930 Simmons Hardware was owned by The Winchester Company. After WW1 Winchester went into the production of a full line of hardware items in an attempt to utilize their foundries/facilities previously used for production of war related products. Winchester found while their production ability was great, they were unabe to distribute their products. Winchester bought Simmons to use their established distribution facilities. In 1930 The Winchester-Simmons Company went into receivership. Winchester's hardware plan was determined a failure. Winchester and Simmons split back into 2 seperate companies.

Winchester returned to firearms production. Simmons struggled through the 1930's. June 28, 1940 Simmons and Shapleigh announced Shapleigh had purchased Simmons Hardware Co.

Shapleigh Hardware continued production of their flagship brand "Diamond Edge" and began production of "Keen Kutter" items as well.

I have seen this buttplate on another KK gun before. It may just be one of those mystries.
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Old May 4, 2011, 03:37 PM   #12
copenhagencowboy
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kk single shot shot gun

i have one that sounds like the same gun you have i gave 20 dollars for mine about 10 years ago mine is a sixteen guage with a 30 inch barrel i had to replace the stock but other than that the gun is in good condition
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