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Old May 16, 2011, 10:11 PM   #26
mykeal
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Quote:
The substitutes are safer!!!!
Why?
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Old May 17, 2011, 01:01 AM   #27
arcticap
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I've always thought that in part, the sub's are safer because they have a higher ignition temperature. In theory that would mean that it would require a hotter or more substantial spark to accidentally set them off.
Just look at why black powder is used to prime a flint lock and how much easier it is to set it off with sparks compared to the sub powders.
That illustrates how under some circumstances the sub powders could be considered to be safer.

Last edited by arcticap; May 17, 2011 at 01:06 AM.
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Old May 17, 2011, 02:19 AM   #28
countryhunter64
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Using 777

I have been using 777 for going on 8 years now, I switched from preformed pellets to loose and droped down from 100 to 86 grains so I could get better shot placement with my inline. 777 is less messy to clean up and I have no troubles. When setting my load I started with 100 grains loose and went down and found the load 86 grains to 370 grain maxi ball, zeroed at 120 yards.
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Old May 17, 2011, 06:20 AM   #29
mykeal
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Quote:
the sub's are safer because they have a higher ignition temperature.
Yes, that's a good point.
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Old May 17, 2011, 08:22 AM   #30
Rifleman1776
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I thought HH nailed it with his reply.
I have been shooting muzzle loaders for nearly 45 years.
In all that time I never knew loading one was as complicated as this thread makes it out to be.
Should I start over? Or take up knitting?
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Old May 17, 2011, 03:53 PM   #31
darwins
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Substitutes are also safer because they are not explosive while real blackpowder is an explosive, meaning blackpowder can explode when impacted by an object.
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Old May 17, 2011, 04:54 PM   #32
Hardy
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The reason I posted substitutes are safer is because to sell Real BP- you have to have a small explosive licence / you have to have an approved vault that will pass inspectorsand forms have to be filled out. Insurance on my bldg will not let me carry it. If I don't have insurance and someone stumbles across the floor-I'm #*%&@! To order substitutes requires none of this and insurance covers it. But, I do have to pay an explosive fee so you have to order a bunch to offset that fee. Well, we all know that Real BP is more volatile and so it will pop a hotter ball unless I haven't shot one yet. Most of our biz is only c/b guns and most want substitutes. Pyrodexfff is the most economical and popular---Pioneer is good. But, again, I heard that Trip 7 is the best

WBH
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Old May 17, 2011, 06:46 PM   #33
Pahoo
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Quote:
Pioneer is good. But, again, I heard that Trip 7 is the best
Well, it will be a long time before I can look for any better but that is only because I have too much 777. One shooting group I deal with, likes BlackHorn-209 and they claim it's better than 777. Have not read that much, on line about BlackHorn or the new WhiteHots. AS mentioned before, there are always trade-offs between BP and the subs. ....


Be Safe !!!
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Old May 17, 2011, 07:29 PM   #34
Hawg
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From all I've heard 777 is too finicky. At twice the price of Pyrodex I know I'm not going to try it. A percussion cap wont set Blackhorn off.
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Old May 17, 2011, 08:28 PM   #35
Hardy
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Hold on. Blackhorn is used for/ modern inline muzzle loaders w 209 caps. I was thinking that for cap and ball revolvers that the best substitute for them is Triple7fff. Never tried it or sold it. I do carry triple7 ff but never fired it in pistol.

WBH
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Old May 18, 2011, 07:44 AM   #36
kwhi43@kc.rr.com
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I never could understand the reason for wanting to shoot a Black Powder
gun with anything but Black Powder. I thought that was the whole reason
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Old May 18, 2011, 08:15 AM   #37
Hawg
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Quote:
I never could understand the reason for wanting to shoot a Black Powder
gun with anything but Black Powder. I thought that was the whole reason
Me too. It kinda defeats the purpose. I use Pyro because it's all I can get but if I had a choice it would be real bp.
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:06 AM   #38
Newton24b
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why use pyrodex?

well have yet to see a store that has a shelf filled with black powder.

to get black powder its a minimum purchase of 25 pounds at a typical 20/pound, plus state sales tax, plus shipping nad handling.
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:50 AM   #39
Hawg
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well have yet to see a store that has a shelf filled with black powder.
You wont see it on a shelf anywhere. You have to ask for it.
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:36 PM   #40
Hardy
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The Totum Pole in Union ,SC sells Goex by the can at less than $30.00. I bought some a year ago but it is only 30 miles away from me. Great store if you get a chance to happen by. They got everything
WBH
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Old May 19, 2011, 10:42 PM   #41
62coltnavy
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Anybody ever use Black Mag 3? Randy Wakeman recommended it, but I think the company probably has gone under because it couldn't get retail outlets, and that $20 hazardous handling fee is a killer.
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Old May 20, 2011, 01:59 AM   #42
arcticap
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The Black Mag plant (MDM) had a huge explosion.
They were in the powder making business at the time.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ight=black+mag
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:05 AM   #43
maillemaker
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Quote:
when one talks "grains" of black powder, they mean volumetric.
I do not believe this is accurate. "Grain" is a unit of weight, not volume. My digital scale has a setting to weigh in grains. I use it to confirm the weight dropped by my volumetric dropper when reloading conventional cartridges.

Steve
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:28 AM   #44
arcticap
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Quote:
when one talks "grains" of black powder, they mean volumetric.
In the muzzle loading world that's true.
The grains are always understood to be volumetric unless specified otherwise.
While smokeless powder loads are referred to by weight, muzzle loading loads are not.
It's an important distinction to make so as to not confuse folks who load muzzle loaders using substitute powders.
Folks can take it or leave it but volumetric grains are simply part of the abiding language that's universally understood.

Last edited by arcticap; May 20, 2011 at 11:41 AM.
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