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Old April 20, 2011, 02:29 PM   #1
MLeake
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video from Orlando area shootout

Two robbers burst into an internet cafe while a third waited in the getaway car. The two who entered the cafe got into a fight with the security guard almost immediately. Video just made the Orlando Sentinel.

Watch how quickly this happens, once the robbers decide to enter the building.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,5850027.story

Not a lot of reaction time available in a case like this.

Good job by the guard, but he seems to have been helped by the initial mindset of the robbers. I was surprised they didn't start shooting as soon as the first one made physical contact with the guard.
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Old April 20, 2011, 02:45 PM   #2
BarryLee
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Wow, scary. It was surprising how close these guys were and apparently only the Security Guard actually hit anyone. I have noticed in a few other videos I have seen of other crimes that often the criminals are not very good shots. I suppose they probably do not train with their weapons very much which most likely accounts for their lack of accuracy.

I hope the fact that he shot the robber in the back as he fled does not become a problem for the guard.
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Old April 20, 2011, 06:09 PM   #3
MrWesson
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Florida law allows self defense against retreating criminals so no problem there.

Fact is if these robbers didnt hesitate or if they didn't care about taking someones life the security guard would be dead.
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Old April 20, 2011, 07:25 PM   #4
threegun
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Fact is if these robbers didnt hesitate or if they didn't care about taking someones life the security guard would be dead.
Fact? Just because the bad guys start shooting first doesn't mean sure death. One thing that I have noticed over the years..........good guys and bad guys shoot horribly when facing an armed foe.

Get in the fight asap, use good tactics, put as much lead on your adversary and as fast as possible......hopefully you can overcome being behind in the reactionary curve as this guard did. Perhaps he was lucky or maybe he made his luck by retaliating.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:57 PM   #5
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Let's back up. What was of value for them to steal, and to necessitate a guard?
This is a wi-fi station, right? Good for the guard, I just wish he would have eradicated the other scum. There is no shortage of scum targets!
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:16 PM   #6
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The guard did only what was available to him to do, everything was fast and right in his face. He was lucky that for whatever reason the BG's did not open fire on him immediately. One BG was waiting for the other to take control of the guard. It is hard to tell if any of the Bg's fired at all. These guys just looked like they had zero brains and walked into a bears den.

I think the scariest part of this for me was the time it took the guard to draw his weapon. The BG took lunch to let the guard do it. On any other day the guard would have taken fire too.
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:19 PM   #7
ClydeFrog
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Mylicensesite.com, Florida security D/G licenses, use of force...

I saw the media item & video on www.InsideEdition.com .
You can also see: www.WFTV.com & www.WESH.com .
For more details about the Florida security laws/use of deadly force standards see: www.Mylicensesite.com .
Armed security officers are allowed by FS493 to only carry .38spl revolvers, 9x19mm(9mmLuger) or the .380acp on security duty.
They are also required to re-qual & take a 4 hour training class once a year.
Officers are NOT considered sworn law enforcement and are held to the same legal conditions as a regular citizen, re: use of deadly force.
G class security officers or license holders CAN NOT shoot at fleeing subjects under most most conditions(armed robbery, home invasions, auto theft etc).
This information is in the Florida Div of Licensing hand-outs in any state office.
The G officer's actions were sound and he used good tactics from what was put out to the general public at this point. The only point I'd bring up is that he(or any uniformed guard) would be much better served by a CCTV video system or maybe a re-enforced security door with a buzzer system to screen patrons or visitors first.
Access control is important but many security clients or customers do not understand or want to pay for crime prevention/asset protection assessments.
The Florida AG's office offers these courses: www.Myfloridalegal.com .

Another good central FL security shooting event to view took place in the Daytona Beach FL area. A G officer(retired police officer) shot a armed subject who held up a drug store. See it on www.YouTube.com

In closing, I reserve making any full judgements or opinions until all the facts & details are made public. I'm sure the State Atty's office & Seminole County Sheriff's Office(the lead LE agency) will investigate the incident.

Clyde
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:33 PM   #8
MrWesson
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Quote:
Fact? Just because the bad guys start shooting first doesn't mean sure death. One thing that I have noticed over the years..........good guys and bad guys shoot horribly when facing an armed foe.

Get in the fight asap, use good tactics, put as much lead on your adversary and as fast as possible......hopefully you can overcome being behind in the reactionary curve as this guard did. Perhaps he was lucky or maybe he made his luck by retaliating.
My point being they did not shoot even after being shot at(the other robber had his gun trained on the security guard). I would guess if they were prepared to take a life they would have fired on the security guard after he resisted.
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:47 PM   #9
MLeake
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You must not have seen the whole video. BG2 fired multiple shots into the cafe after running outside.
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Old April 20, 2011, 11:06 PM   #10
ClydeFrog
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InsideEdition.com: full video...

The Inside Edition report showed both sections.

To be clear, as a G officer or W(concealed firearm) you can shoot at subjects if they are actively fighting or shooting at you or another bystander but you can't chase criminals down the street like a sworn LE officer.
It's unsound & could lead to criminal/civil court actions.
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Old April 21, 2011, 07:51 AM   #11
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From a tactical perspective, this guard should not have been stationed at the door because he has virtually no reaction time. At least no good guys were hurt.
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Old April 21, 2011, 08:02 AM   #12
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What was of value for them to steal, and to necessitate a guard?
This is a wi-fi station, right?
These establishments use computer access for gambling. They have found a loophole in Florida law that allows them to essentially run a casino online. They are very highly profitable. They have a penchant for giving themselves names that make one think they benefit veterans, but only a minute and inconsequential amount of the profits are donated to legitimate veterans' organizations. Wi-fi is not available, only their computers for their purposes, and their purposes are their own profits. Think of this like a casino holdup and you will be close to the mark.
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Old April 21, 2011, 11:00 AM   #13
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Security Guard defends lives and kills one robber

This literally just happened the other day here in Florida. Two armed robbers came into an internet cafe store with guns. The security guard managed to push himself away from one of the robbers, and took out his .38 revolver and shot him, thus stopping the armed robbery. Thee robbers fled the scene, and the one who was shot had his body thrown out of the car when he passed away a few blocks away (thus proving there is no honor amongst criminals.) You may find the video of the shooting and the news story in the link below.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ht-Camera.html
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Old April 21, 2011, 11:23 AM   #14
mdd
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Surprising that he had anything more than pepper spray & colorful language to defend himself. Good for him that he possessed & effectively utilized his firearm to rid the planet of another worthless thief.
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Old April 21, 2011, 11:31 AM   #15
Don H
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More here in this prior thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448756
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Old April 21, 2011, 01:24 PM   #16
MP9
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Florida law allows self defense against retreating criminals so no problem there.
are you sure?

once the BG retreat, I think you can not shoot him, UNLESS he is shooting at you while retreating.. if the BG run away you can not shoot him... because there is not fear of live or great bodily harm....

that could be something you have to prove in court and the jury.

are you from FL? have you read FL firearm law, use and ownership ? I will check again, maybe I could be wrong..
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Old April 21, 2011, 01:32 PM   #17
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in this case it would be different, the BG just before flee point the gun at the security guard and him could shoot again before going out...

the security guard was so lucky the BG didnt shoot him... if he wanted to shoot the SG he could do that but he hesitate
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Old April 21, 2011, 02:05 PM   #18
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That security officer is now my hero. I hope he gets a raise and promotion.
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Old April 21, 2011, 03:23 PM   #19
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From a tactical perspective, this guard should not have been stationed at the door because he has virtually no reaction time. At least no good guys were hurt.
+1

I also agree with the comment that had robbers had the mindset to actually use their firearms if need be, the security guard would have at least been shot.

A gun was pointed at the guards head as soon as the robbers entered. When the guard struggled instead of immediately surrendering, instead of firing, the BG ran. I would like to know who fired the first shot in the cafe, both the guard and BG were out of sight.

Incredible bravery and focus by the guard. Managing to keep his head, create distance and draw under that kind of pressure and at such a disadvantage. Would also be interesting to know if that was a premeditated reaction or just a gut fight or flight reaction.

Not really something I would thump my chest at, seeing that the BG (in my very humble opinion) was unwilling to kill and was shot while running away, though I place no blame on the guard, its still sad when anyone short of a murderer is killed.
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Old April 21, 2011, 04:11 PM   #20
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Watched the video and can't believe that the guard lived through the ordeal. From what I witnessed, the BG's had him point blank. The guard's placement left him highly vulnerable. I do wish to commend him though on his ability to overcome the initial rush and offer effective resistance to their attack. That in itself was no minor feat.
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Old April 21, 2011, 04:37 PM   #21
MrWesson
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You must not have seen the whole video. BG2 fired multiple shots into the cafe after running outside.
From what I saw the security guard fought back and fired a shot while they were inside. Only after the gunfight did they shoot back.
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Old April 21, 2011, 04:54 PM   #22
steveno
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if a cafe has to have a security guard then I would find another cafe and/or neighborhood.
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Old April 21, 2011, 05:58 PM   #23
JerryM
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(if a cafe has to have a security guard then I would find another cafe and/or neighborhood)

Me too, but I would also not go to one that I felt that I would be in danger without my carry gun on me.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old April 21, 2011, 10:02 PM   #24
ClydeFrog
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Micro's post, Security Officer's tactics...

I agree with Micro's statements but I highly doubt the G/armed guard will get any real credit or a pay raise.
Most armed security officers in central Florida only earn around $9-11.00/hr.
Wages used to be higher, $12.00-15.00/hr depending on the post & contract. Many of the private contract companies pay low wages & have high turn over. See www.Craigslist.org and read over some of the security ads.

I also agree with the remarks about the G officer being too close to the access point(door).
As I posted before, the business should have a screening area or post a officer out front to wand patrons or monitor the parking lot.
A lot of clubs/bars/cash heavy businesses do not want to spend $$$. Until they get sued by big law firms that air TV ads or have bus bench ads.

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Old April 22, 2011, 07:30 AM   #25
Skans
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Here's what I noticed. Look how the Security guard puts some distance between him and the BG before firing. I think this is very important. At first, the BG's were too close to draw and shoot. So, the Security Guard backed up, aimed and fired. I thought he did a fine job.
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