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Old June 9, 2000, 08:43 PM   #1
Cowboy Preacher
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Is Judo really a effevtive form of combat?
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Old June 10, 2000, 01:57 AM   #2
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There is much more to the answer than just a simple "yes" or "no". For example, quality of the instructor, goal of both the instructor and student, and even styles of Judo factor in the equation.

But a general answer is, "Yes, it can be." If self defense is your primary objective, I recommend tracking down a Kodokan styled dojo.

$.02

[This message has been edited by SB (edited June 10, 2000).]
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Old June 10, 2000, 01:18 PM   #3
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Cowboy preacher
A good place to research this is http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/ And check out the underground forum, judo section (among others)
My <$.02 Judo has the potential to be a good self defense art, depending on your instructor. If S/he is teaching sport judo, you can do better, but even sport judo isn't worthless.

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Old June 10, 2000, 02:11 PM   #4
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I have been involved with learning Aikido for some time. It is a decendant of Judo. I know from one of our white-belt classmates that it is useful. He was attacked by two guys who pepper-sprayed him and then grabbed him. When he was grabbed he threw the first attacker to the ground. Being thrown to the ground, when the ground is a concrete sidewalk, can be a serious thing. The other attacker came at him with the pepper spray again and the student grabbed his wrist, broke it, and put him on the ground as well.

The moves used in the above defense were simple, white-belt level moves. The key is that the martial art gives you SOMETHING to draw upon mentally, it gives more calmness and deliberateness of action. I believe ANY martial art will help in these key areas. The form of the art you should use depends on your size and strength. I chose Aikido because it was perfect for my wife's small size. Again, any art gives you a mental edge.

Just my .02
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Old June 10, 2000, 02:36 PM   #5
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is judo an effective form of combat?

yes , no and maybe.

what it does do is teach you to be able to think/react when things get up close and personal.
it teaches you how to fall.(a very good thing)
what almost any martial art does, is make you realize you can do lots more than you thought you could in a bad situation.

if the art(and compatible teacher) availible is judo, by all means take it.
it is one of the few full speed full contact martial arts.

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Old June 10, 2000, 07:50 PM   #6
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Judo can be a great art! But it is best at getting people to the ground. Not at finishing the job, or what to do if you are taken down.

As a little background, since I am new here. I currently pretty much live to train, and have for a long time. I currently practice brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, and Kali. (It helps that I am on staff at a very large fight school).

Judo works well when combined with a striking art. Like the deadliest one in the world, Muay Thai. That is why I practice it. Or it would work good with a strictly combative/warrior art like Kali. That is stricly about killing your opponent in short order. Brazilian JJ is awesome for taking care of an opponent while on the ground. You would learn how to take them down. What to do when taken down. And what to do while on the ground. Like choke, joint lock, etc...

The art you choose depends on what style appeals to you. And more importantly what style works for you. I could go on at very great length! Not to slam traditional martial arts, like Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan Karate, but they will not teach you how to survive in a street or combat situation. THey are excellent for learning the science of the martial arts. They were created in a time when people fought with a lot of restrictions.

What are your interests. I have been into the combative arts on and off for the better part of 17 years. And I work within them now. Do you want to learn devastating punching and kicking? Do you want to learn chokes and joint locks that are very debilitating? Do you want to learn NASTY blade techiques? I would love to speak at length with you on this. Because if you are considering the martial arts, combative skills game, you need to really evaluate what you want.

Having said all of that. Judo is a GREAT art. Not a total self defense package. Not many arts are. But there are those that are close. Judo is the grandfather to most of the grappling arts. so you know something is good about it!

BTW, where are you located? I can most likely help you find a school anywhere.

Oh yeah, someone mentioned mixedmartialarts.com. I am all over that board. I am one of the original members. But my username is different there. Seems the admins like it, so they got it. Imagine that! My user name there is ov1. I would advise you to take the good gentlemans advice, and check that site out. It is pretty good for getting in touch with martial artists and getting good advice. Once you get by all the children chanting the my fighter can beat up your fighter mantra.

Do please contact me, if you would like to discuss the arts! I love talkin' about scrappin'!


[This message has been edited by chokeu2 (edited June 10, 2000).]
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Old June 10, 2000, 07:50 PM   #7
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sorry for the double post. admins, would you delete is please?

[This message has been edited by chokeu2 (edited June 10, 2000).]
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Old June 10, 2000, 07:53 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cowboy Preacher:
Is Judo really a effevtive form of combat?[/quote]

Yes, Judo (True Kodakon)is highly effective but is only a facet of combat. Although I hold the rank of 1st Dan in a Traditional style of karate, prior years of "street fights" taught me that one must be well rounded and well versed in many facets of combat. More often than not, one on one altercations are usually taken to the ground this is where Judo, wrestling or any other grappling discipline will definantly be to your advantage. Should you, however, have the misfortune of facing two or more attackers, you may not want to go to the ground. You should be proficient with your hands, elbows, feet, knees and most importantly be able to run fast. I would study any type of grappling form (I studied Judo) and study any type of striking art to include boxing. Take from all these that will work for you and disgard what doesn't. That has been said many times but it is tried and true.

[This message has been edited by Fadingbreed40 (edited June 10, 2000).]
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Old June 11, 2000, 09:31 AM   #9
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chokeu2,

Where in Atlanta (and when) do you train?
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Old June 11, 2000, 07:04 PM   #10
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Taxphd, I train at the Obake Fight School, and am on staff at the same. How about you?

If you are law enforcement you should really look into brazilian JJ, or Kali. Or better yet, combine the two. Judo does have chokes, but not to the extent and effectivness of BJJ. As a matter of fact, at my school we are going to be putting a law enforcement program together. It will consist of BJJ, and Kali predominently. We are in the final phases of bringing a man from Brazil by the name of Ricardo Murgel to teach with us. Ricardo is one of the original BJJ black belts. He has been at it for 45 years. He is also the lead trainer for the brazilian police. And he is the brazilian state quick draw pistol champ.

Aikido is good when you have been at it for a long time. And it is still based on a lot of tradition. Not something that is going to help you on the street.

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Old June 12, 2000, 03:44 PM   #11
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One of the things that Judo (or BJJ) offers is Randori.

Martial arts are taught in one of two ways: Kata (form) and Randori (free-sparring).

Kata is important for learning techniques and perfecting them. Randori is important for developing the ability to execute the techniques on a fully resisting opponent.

To simplify somewhat grossly, Judo emphasizes throws and pins more while BJJ emphasizes ground positions and submissions. Either would make an excellent self-defense martial art (provided that the Judo school is a self-defense oriented one rather than an Olympic competition style one).

Systems like Aikido can be useful particularly for attribute developments, but their effectiveness is, in general, limited by the fact that they are trained in Kata form only.

My two bits.

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Old June 14, 2000, 10:10 AM   #12
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chokeu2,

I've been playing Judo on and off for most of my life. Most recently at the Atlanta Judo Academy. Good bunch of people, but very sport oriented (Leo White, multiple time U.S. champion, is the head instructor there).

Where is Obake located, and when do you hold classes?
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Old June 14, 2000, 02:59 PM   #13
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Obake is at 5956 Roswell Road. Which is on the corner of Roswell and Hammond in Sandy Springs.

We have classes seven days a week my friend. We are developing a Judo program also. The gentleman teaching is a former South African champ. He teaches pretty combative stuff.

We are also redesigning our BJJ program. I am working on getting an old school BJJ BB up from Brazil. He is one of the original black belts. AWESOME. BJJ is Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Saturday is a morning class.

We have kali Mon, Weds, and Sunday. Sunday is an afternoon class. This class is headed by an Inasanto and Lucay trained Guru.

And our Thai is Mon, weds, and fri. Taught by the current THAI world middleweight champ, Many Ntoh. He is ranked with Lumpini ratings, not the ISKA crap. And one of only three people to have knockouts with both legs in Lumpini stadium in Thailand.

Our facility is a little over 30,000 square feet. so there is plenty space to train.

If ya wanna come up, hit me with an email! Would love to show you around.

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Old June 15, 2000, 07:20 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skorzeny:
One of the things that Judo (or BJJ) offers is Randori.
SNIP

Systems like Aikido can be useful particularly for attribute developments, but their effectiveness is, in general, limited by the fact that they are trained in Kata form only.

My two bits.

Skorzeny
[/quote]

Skorzeny
You have mocked Aikido Once Too Many Times [note dramatic capitalization ]. I extend Ki in your general direction!!!

------------------
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Old March 17, 2005, 06:49 PM   #15
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Practical application of judo.

I've found judo to be a lifesaver on numerous occasions. Most importantly, I was able to take a good fall in a bad motorcycle accident, walking away with only scrapes & bruises. There have also been a few times when people have tried to grab me and regretted it. I've also done some boxing, but have never needed to strike anyone, as the only times I couldn't avoid a fight were cases when I was grabbed by surprise.

In one case, my assailant tackled me around the knees from behind, but I was able to remain upright by holding onto a city trashcan. I turned around I sent him sprawling onto his back. He shook it off, & was ready for more, but his buddy stopped him with a hand on his chest & a shake of his head. The buddy I was hanging out with that night thinks I'm Jackie Chan now. lol

IG

Last edited by IronGeek; March 19, 2005 at 04:52 AM. Reason: typo
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:08 PM   #16
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I think Judo has some applications for self defense but it should be combine with another type of art that incorperates strikes. If you are going one on one in judo match, that is one thing. If you are in a street fight, you can't afford to put a submission hold on a guy unless you want one of his buddies to pound on you.

I did Tae Kwon Do for a few years when I was younger. I feel it is one of the easiest arts to apply even at a low level. Although I like TKD, the proportion of kicks versus punches is too skewed. Some people where I trained only used their arms for blocking. Another thing is that if you end up on the ground and all you know is TKD, you better get up quick or else you're dead meat.

I'd say a combination of these two would be pretty effective in most scenarios. Either that or TKD and Jiu Jitsu.
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Old March 18, 2005, 02:36 AM   #17
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One of my favorite quotes I saw on this forum once has got to be:

"Never bring your hands to a gunfight"
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Old March 18, 2005, 12:30 PM   #18
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I hate threads like this because I tend to adamently disagree with everyone and like to comment on what I feel is wholey inaccurate information being given, but since I'm an *******, here are my 2 cents.

Judo is fine as a self defense style....depending.

Remember every single martial art developed for specific needs and with a certain approach to how a fight is going to play out. For example, the kung fu styles that developed in nothern china focused more on kicks and distance attacks because they had the room to actually use them and it was expected that a fight would start at a distance. The styles that developed in southern china though focus more on punches and short range attacks because they were mainly in cities and didn't have a lot of range to fight from. Judo approaches a fight with the assumption that most all fights will start standing, so if you can control the fight there, you'll win. Brazilian / Jiu Jitsu however goes on the assumption that the fight will end up on the ground, so contol there and you'll win. This is why you tend to see more focus on throws in Judo and more on holds in B/JJ. So first figure out how you want to approach a fight. On a side note, grabbling styles like Judo, JJ, Akido, etc have the added side effect of being more oriented towards causing pain without leaving marks on the victim. Might make defending yourself in court a bit easier.

Continuing, whenever you hear someone say that such and such a style is "the deadliest" or "the most brutal" or anything like that, run quickly and stop listening to them advertise their style. Course, that's my personal opinion and explaining it further would probably lead to the admins threatening to ban me, so I'll leave it like that.

To address Judo vs Jujitsu specifically (since they are most related), there is nothing that they teach in Jujitsu that a Judo school focused on self defense wouldn't teach you, remember, modern Jujitsu is just a branch of Judo (which is just a branch of old school jujistu). A Judo school focused purely on sport would not teach you these things though simply because they wouldn't be usefull in tournaments. As far as one style being better then another.. meh. In controled matches Jujitsu practictioners don't often beat judo practictioners, but this tells us nothing more then who the better fighter was.
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Old March 18, 2005, 01:48 PM   #19
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Sport Judo

Actually, the school I attended taught only "sport" judo. It included a great deal of chokes & armlocks, which are quite often employed in tournament. I would also argue that judo is very effective on the ground, as well as standing.

Again, I agree that a striking art should round out one's training.Judo & boxing, or maybe some Wing-Chun are a great combo.

IG
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Old March 18, 2005, 01:59 PM   #20
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That's what I forgot to write in my post.

Yeah, learning striking and grappling is good. Judo does have strikes, but they are rarely taught in most schools (as most schools are sport oriented).

But I'm not a fan of the mix martial art styles many people claim are superior. They claim that it strengthens their abilities since the strengths of one style make up for the weaknesses of another, but I think they are just left with a "Jack of all trades, master of none" situation. I prefer to just tell people to focus on just one style at a good school for a while. In time, once you've got that more or less down, if you feel that approach to fighting isn't appropraite to you, try something else at.

I mean, do you go around carrying multiple guns? If you do is it because one is a backup incase the first one is unable to be used (dropped, snatched, jammed, etc) or because you have one gun for this scenario, one gun for this scenario, another for this, etc etc.
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Old March 18, 2005, 02:39 PM   #21
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Certainly. As with anything, finding a good instructor and a group of fellow students insterested in the same thing is key. Focus on old-skul Judo and not necessarily the sport aspect, you'll be fine.

If you near choke2U, run, do not walk, run to his school!
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Old March 18, 2005, 04:45 PM   #22
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Ju-Jutsu

Judo is the competition-version of Ju-Jutsu. Ju-do means the soft way. Soft because all the nasty and very effective stuff has been left aside to make competition possibe (compete more than once in a lifetime). If you need a combat training go for jiu-jitsu, the modern ju-jutsu. It's the most complete system I know.

Judo is a great sport.

By the way: There is no "bad" system. Their's only a lot of weak fighthers.
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Old March 18, 2005, 05:11 PM   #23
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Here's a little action between two disciplines.

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/652/

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Old March 18, 2005, 05:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Judo is the competition-version of Ju-Jutsu. Ju-do means the soft way. Soft because all the nasty and very effective stuff has been left aside to make competition possibe (compete more than once in a lifetime). If you need a combat training go for jiu-jitsu, the modern ju-jutsu. It's the most complete system I know.
That's the first time I've heard anyone say it that way.

-Do and -itsu are two common endings to japanese martial arts. -Do traditionally refers to styles that refine the self while -itsu are referring to styles with a focus on battle.

Judo was developed because the technique that was being used to teach jujitsu was "Send people into battle, if they come back alive, they get promoted" pretty much. Judo came about because it was changed just enough that they could actually teach it in classrooms. Granted, the black belt testing still consisted of sending students into the redlight district and having them pick fights, but overall it was much safer to teach in classes.

The sport aspect came many many years later.
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Old March 18, 2005, 05:31 PM   #25
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The last thread we had on similar matters:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...t=judo+jujistu


Quote:
Here's a little action between two disciplines.

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/652/
Did he start with the same exact attack 3 times in a row, even though it didn't work the first two times or am I watching this wrong?
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