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Old April 20, 2011, 01:27 PM   #1
BarryLee
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Gang Attack on Transit Train

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/hord...ck-917772.html

In Atlanta the mass transit system is named MARTA. Recently a very scary thing happened where about two dozen gang members rushed on to the train at a stop and began to intimidate all the passengers. They then beat and robbed two individuals as the other passengers tried to get away, but there was nowhere to run.

So, if you were on this train and you were carrying how would you have responded? What if they were attacking you? What if they were not attacking you would you intervene?

Either way it seems like a very scary and tactically difficult situation.
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Old April 20, 2011, 02:02 PM   #2
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I live about an hour northwest of Atlanta. I have avoided riding MARTA. This news report made me think about what I might have done in that situation. All I can think of is that it would have ended badly. I carry concealed whenever I can. In GA I can legally carry on MARTA.

I would like to think that I would have somehow managed to keep my firearm concealed, given up my wallet and not responded with deadly force. But if I was one of the people who was being beaten by a dozen men, I just don't know whether I would have been able to keep the weapon concealed.

Drawing a weapon as they entered would have been premature.
Waiting until they began beating me would have been too late. This seems like a no-win situation.

What if they had discovered my weapon? I imagine that I would have had little chance to draw and fire in a responsible manner.

The last report I heard on the morning news put the number of attackers at about thirty. This is a mob situation where one armed person has no chance against over-whelming numbers.

I'm not riding MARTA.
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Old April 20, 2011, 02:28 PM   #3
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I would have run. As was already posted, one man against a mob of 24 or more can not hope to survive.
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Old April 20, 2011, 02:28 PM   #4
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That has to be the most scary situation one could encounter. It is certain you don't want to introduce a weapon that can be taken from you. And, you can't tell what you would do until you are there.
Certainly, not feed the beast of an uncontrolled mob looking to squash anything in its way.
My vote would be to give it up and play down hoping that they would move on: with one hand on the CCW.
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Old April 20, 2011, 04:18 PM   #5
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That's a tough one. It depends on whether or not you're in reasonable fear of death or serious injury. Multiple attackers can justify the use of deadly force in most states, but the headlines are going to read "MARTA Vigilante Shoots Unarmed 15-year Old". Victim's aunt quoted saying "He was a good boy who never did nothing to no one! He was turning his life around" etc etc.
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Old April 20, 2011, 04:40 PM   #6
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Regardless, there would be plenty of witnesses to testify that her little angel was not an angel.

Today, getting hit with soda cans, tomorrow blades and guns. 2 British tourists were killed in Florida as part of a gang initiation. If I could draw and shoot, I think I would.
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Old April 20, 2011, 05:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
The last report I heard on the morning news put the number of attackers at about thirty. This is a mob situation where one armed person has no chance against over-whelming numbers.
Actually, you're in very good shape. You turn the head of the first goblin that pulls a weapon into abstract art all over the ceiling. A full-house 125gr 357 loaded to the gills will do.

Look, with a gang this size, you ought to be DEEP into condition orange. This is the kind of trouble that you can spot coming - pretty dang hard to miss. You should have your arms crossed, hand on grip under your jacket if you carry crossdraw concealed like I do.
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Old April 20, 2011, 07:15 PM   #8
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This changes the argument for high-capacity for CCW from "you shouldn't need more than 5 shots" to "It has now been proven that 15 shots and a reload may not be enough for an ordinary guy"

It's the stuff of nightmares.
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Old April 20, 2011, 07:36 PM   #9
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Bang!


Followed by many more bangs if needed. I suspect one would be enough.
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Old April 20, 2011, 07:40 PM   #10
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This changes the argument for high-capacity for CCW from "you shouldn't need more than 5 shots" to "It has now been proven that 15 shots and a reload may not be enough for an ordinary guy"
Ronbert, This type attack is rare. As rare as the 19 unshot gang bangers climbing over the bodies of their buddies to continue the attack. Five is plenty for most everything a civilian faces. I suspect a snub nose would have ended this attack instantly.
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Old April 20, 2011, 08:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnero
I would have run. As was already posted, one man against a mob of 24 or more can not hope to survive.
How far can one run in a moving train? 1 car, 2 cars?
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Old April 20, 2011, 08:49 PM   #12
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jim that recent post was hilarious

of course I don't think you were trying to be funny. It is good to know that at least some of these lowlifes would have one last thought going thru their head something like: damn, I think I just messed with the wrong dude
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:03 PM   #13
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When it's a mob driven by mob mentality one 'bang' aint gonna do it. One .357 ain't gonna do it. Ask any police officer or trained military and they will tell you; one man can not turn back a mob and doubtless some of those in the mob were carrying too! To suggest that the person facing this mob was in 'good shape' is totally incorrect. If one shot could really turn back a mob then the riots of the 60's would never have happened; in baltimore in '68 there was terrible riot, which got completely out of control when a squad of armed riot police opened fire on them. The police where forced to retreat and this mob was largely unarmed, at least not with firearms. Goggle it and you will see. If a squad of trained police in riot gear cannot turn back a mob how the heck is one guy with a revolver gonna fair? Trained police, both civilian and military WOULD NEVER TRY TO TAKE ON A ANGRY MOB ALONE
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Last edited by mnero; April 20, 2011 at 09:18 PM.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:04 PM   #14
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Whats why a carry the Judge in 500 Magnum with 2 ga shotgun shell capability and 6 sets of ammo in moon clips.

I figure the 2ga, zero shot buck will spread out at 6 foot and I should be able to clear the car within 2 shots. lol

this may be the only instance when the Judge and the 410 shells may be of some limited use....

For me the Judge is just not me and in general I dont recommend it for use in public situations unless you stict strictly with 45 LC or 454 ammo.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:14 PM   #15
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Ain't no gang gonna beat me as long as I have anything with which to resist.

Most days lately, . . . it has been an XD45 and one spare mag, . . . might start carrying both spare mags, . . . especially if I get stuck in Atlanta.

As for those thugs, . . . I'd have been in condition orange when I first laid eyes on the bunch, . . . would have covertly drawn, . . . and if I went down, . . . you can bet your last bippy there would have been a pile of MT .45 brass nearby, . . .

Knowing gang mentality, . . . there is most likely less than a 50/50 that I would have survived, . . . but if you gotta go, . . . take some of the opposition with you.

May God bless,
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:33 PM   #16
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Actually this may have been an occasion when the 460 Rowland in the Springfield XD Tactical would have been a great choice... (I wasnt there I havent seen the circumstances nor do I know the tilt of the angle of the earth or the particular moon phase for that day, nor the cross sectional density of the bullet)

13 + 1 and 2 spare clips would certainly made an impression...

Most certainly innocents might be hit unless this was some ideal situation where no innocents are present.

The other down fall is this is likely a confrontation you will not walk away from, that said if your done anyway I dont see to many choices.

Still the 44 Magnum class power in so many rounds would certainly make an impression they wouldnt forget anytime soon.
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Last edited by BGutzman; April 21, 2011 at 09:24 AM.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:36 PM   #17
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IMHO, this is a tough one. I went through four years of "what if" in College (police science), blew a disc in my lower back (23 yrs old), passed all the exams, never got to join a force. I have a degree in criminology, but no street experience. I have a good knowledge of the law, and am proficient with weapons. My mindset has always been about right and wrong many years after I was unable to serve. I am almost 60, and I still carry on a need basis. I (luckily) have never had to draw a weapon. I never want to deal with the legal crap related to even a justifiable defense. This situation, calls for a very cool head. If one were to intervene short of saving your own life, you would most likely die doing so. The numbers are stacked against you to handle what would arise at your defense attempt. Do you really think you can overcome a large number of thugs like that? You better shoot early and have a "banana" clip. This problem is more about the city you live in, and the degree to which your city addresses this scum. element. And as you all know, all cities have a "scum factor". I just hope anyone that is pressed into a situation (fractional) like this does not become one more victim by wading into a "swamp" too deep to survive.

Last edited by RickE; April 20, 2011 at 09:46 PM.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:53 PM   #18
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A very similar incident did happen to me. In brooklyn NY while on my way to work,,, I was wearing a shearling jacket. Very fashionable, very popular @ the time. A group of about 5 or 6 got on and at one stop... two each entering by each car door. One spots my jacket and motions to the others... and the start meandering my way. At the time I was armed with a S&W model 10 with a 3" bbl, and a S&W model 36, also with a 3"bbl. As they apprached I loosed the 10 and let them have a good look, then just sat there. It seems that suddenly there was something much more interesting in the car behind us, and they all just had to go see before it dissapeared.

Of course I notified the transit district with descriptions, and the station they got on. I was told that they were a robbery pattern on that particular line.
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Old April 20, 2011, 09:54 PM   #19
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A very similar incident did happen to me. In brooklyn NY while on my way to work,,, I was wearing a shearling jacket. Very fashionable, very popular @ the time. A group of about 5 or 6 got on and at one stop... two each entering by each car door. One spots my jacket and motions to the others... and they start meandering my way. At the time I was armed with a S&W model 10 with a 3" bbl, and a S&W model 36, also with a 3"bbl. As they approached I loosed the 10 and let them have a good look, then just sat there. It seems that suddenly there was something much more interesting in the car behind us, and they all just had to go see before it dissapeared.

Of course I notified the transit district with descriptions, and the station they got on. I was told that they were a robbery pattern on that particular line.
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:04 PM   #20
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Hard to phantom, we don't even have a taxi cab hear, let alone mass transit. I guess they could hop a coal train, but its a little nippy for that.
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:14 PM   #21
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Unfortunately, gang attacks are fairly common, even when it is not the typical "gang" that we usually associate with that word. A couple of years ago up in Idaho, there was a case of a local businessman attacked by 8 out of town punks there to go to the outdoor bars. He was initially charged with attempted murder for shooting two of them, but released two weeks later with no charges by the grand jury. They believed he did act in self defense when attacked by 8 men threatening him. In this case, he shot two but was overpowered by the others.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/200...lt-threatened/

That was "only" 8 people, two of whom were disabled by his shots. You really have little chance of defense against 8 let alone 30 attackers. You would need something beyond a single hand gun. Lucky that no one was killed in the GA attack. Sad to see where this country is headed.
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:25 PM   #22
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good luck w/the aftermath if you exterminate a whole subway car full of perps like you do on your nintendo. my revolver and the other hand in an empty pocket like its holding a BUG should do. I'm either getting taken down by the mob or finding a loophole real quick - extra mags & more firepower aren't going to be the deciding factors. of course really having the BUG is preferable, and the less communication+time needed to exit the situation the better(because a mob can be an immovable force).
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:31 PM   #23
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Hmmm...this reminds me...

A popular bumpersticker in NYC, circa 1984, said:
Every subway mugger deserves what he GOETZ!

For those who may not remember the case, Bernhard Goetz shot four young men armed with screwdrivers, whom he said were threatening him and attempting to rob him in a Manhattan subway car.

At Goetz's trial (which I attended) one of them, James Ramseur, while on the witness stand, took off his shoe and tried to hit Barry Slotnick, Goetz's defense attorney, with it!

Ramseur caught a 25 year sentence for the aggravated rape, sodomy and robbery of a pregnant 18 yr. old on a Bronx rooftop, after he recovered from his wounds from the Goetz incident!

In fact, of the four men Goetz shot, the only one who didn't return to a life of crime was one Darrell Cabey, whose wounds left him paralyzed.

Of course, it would be highly irresponsible and insensitive for anyone to suggest that ending the careers of thugs like these should be considered a public service.

But feel free to draw your own conclusions...

P.S. I've spent enough time in and around Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb & Gwinnett counties to know what folks there say "MARTA" actually stands for!

Last edited by Ringolevio; April 20, 2011 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Afterthought
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Old April 20, 2011, 10:41 PM   #24
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These kinds of punks are cowards that's why they attack in mobs. They're not rioting after a verdict they didn't like or after the cops beat down a minority.

I agree with Jim March - You turn the head of the first goblin that pulls a weapon into abstract art all over the ceiling. That WILL get the attention of the others.

I will say this - when dealing with multiple attackers, 5 or 6 rounds can go real quick, especially if it doesn't turn the tide.
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Old April 20, 2011, 11:05 PM   #25
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Watched the news tonight and regrettably they haven’t caught anyone yet. Generally these guys end up posting something on Facebook or bragging around the neighborhood. They did mention on the news that they were all chanting B.F.P.L. which may be the name of their gang.
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