The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 19, 2011, 08:30 AM   #1
marksman8351
Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2011
Posts: 74
.308/7.62x51 SHTF Rifle

I have a vast variety of firearms in my collection but recently ive been looking into a 308/7.62x51. Currently I have an AR15 Mini14 an AR15-22 and a variety of shotguns and handguns. In the area where i like and a few counties surrounding you arent even allowed to hunt with anything but a shotgun/bow/crossbow so im seriously considering a 308/7.62x51 SHTF tactical style rifle that i could use for hunting too. Ive been looking at something like the Kel Tec RFB because i am a left handed shooter and it would be nice not to worry about brass in my face. (BTW my AR15 is left handed and my mini has a beastly deflector on it). So i was wondering what kind of rifle anyone here would recommend i really like the bullpup design and the 1200 price tag on the rfb but dont know too much about it... i was also considering a FAL clone because i see how far foward on the rifle the ejector is and i heard alot of the FAL's design is left hand friendly. So any recommendations or information on the RFB or something that matches what i like is greatly appreciated.
marksman8351 is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 08:40 AM   #2
marksman8351
Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2011
Posts: 74
btw im a big fan of keeping my rifles american but im open to suggestions . Besides my duty weapons all of my guns are american and i would ideally like to keep it this way although i am a big fan of the FN SCAR and FAL and pretty much anything FN and other fancy guns of that sort. The only american gun im keeping out of the question is the M1A only because ive designed my mini14 to pretty much clone one e/c that its in .223/556
marksman8351 is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 09:00 AM   #3
Reidman
Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 71
Narrow your search

There are lots of options for you but you should narrow it down a bit.

What's your price range?

What is your intended engagement range?

Will you mount a scope or other optic?

Are you looking for magazine fed semi auto or a solid bolt action?
Reidman is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 09:05 AM   #4
new_scopeshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2011
Location: central ohio
Posts: 354
You can not go wrong with the FAL! I have one and I shoot it LH a lot. We sometimes up the contest by makeing it weak hand only. I'm a huge fan of the FAL. Another option is to look at an AR10. Not sure if anyone makes a LH model though.
new_scopeshooter is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 09:49 AM   #5
Vt.birdhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 535
M1A is the way to go, scout model sounds like a good fit for you, but there are lots of configurations to choose from. Few other rifles are generally considered as reliable and user-friendly.

Pick up a copy of Bostons Gun Bible before you spend your dough on a .308.
He compares the various .308s of the world in a variety of ways that answers all your questions and some others you haven't thought of.

If you cant afford an M1A now, keep saving till you can.

BTW, Im a lefty, the M1A controls feel natural.
__________________
Maintaining a constant state of cat-like readiness and a heightened state of suspicious alertness.
Vt.birdhunter is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 10:05 AM   #6
thesheepdog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2010
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 1,991
I say keep what you have and save the money for ammo.
__________________
Krav Maga/Judo
Qualified Rifleman/Marksmanship Instructor/Lic. Medic
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" Romans 8:1
thesheepdog is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 05:31 PM   #7
UpstateGlocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 103
DS Arms makes what is likely the best quality FAL in current production for civilian use, and they do it in Illinois. Problem solved.
UpstateGlocker is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 06:10 PM   #8
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 2,973
I have three M1A rifles, and that is what I would choose in a time of crisis.
My favorite is this Springfield Loaded, with a Leupold 1.5-5X scope.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 06:12 PM   #9
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
Don't the FAL's chew up the brass? I like the M1A's because the brass gets ejected in usable shape.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 06:33 PM   #10
JiminTexas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2010
Posts: 149
FAL's do NOT necessarily chew up brass. There are two things that need to be addressed and adjusted to keep the brass dings off of the receiver and the brass from being brutalized. They are the gas port adjustment, a very easy no takedown adjustment that you can do "on the fly". The gas adjustment is to allow for different pressures produced by different ammo. The other is the ejector. It is a little harder to do, but once done it is forever. You'll need an FAL manual or someone that has done this before to get it right.
JiminTexas is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 06:58 PM   #11
MOshooter65202
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2011
Posts: 471
I would like to have several semi-autos in the 308,of course the MIA and a Armalite would be sweet to add to the safe.
The only semi-auto 308 I have is a DPMS LR308AP4 Carbine purchased 6 years ago,for a carbine it's a unbelievably accurate little brush gun"Hell on Whitetail"

[IMG][/IMG]
MOshooter65202 is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 08:02 PM   #12
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,032
You didn't specifically state semi-auto or bolt, but from your short list it sounds like you want the former.

For a bolt that fits your intended use, you might consider the Ruger Gunsite Scout..
I've read some very positive reviews on the rifle, it's on my "sure would like to have one" list. Reasonably priced, as well...

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsit...le/models.html
tobnpr is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 08:57 PM   #13
UpstateGlocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 103
Someone's got to explain the whole Ruger "scout rifle" thing to me.

First, the stock in black & white laminate is ugly. I own wood, and I own plastic/synthetic. Wood is for beauty, synthetic is for all-weather use. Laminate is for cheap furniture.

Second, why a bolt and 16.5" barrel no less in a "tactical" weapon? Aside from the overuse of the term "tactical" (its gotten to the point where if I see the word "tactical" in a product description I assume its a bad product they are trying to move, sort of like the "catch of the day" in Red Lobster which is really the fish that's 3 days old they are trying to move before it smells too bad).

I think Ruger has actually made great strides since the old man left, and am inclined to look at Ruger first if I'm in the market, but the scout rifle looks like a bad idea best left to fade away.
UpstateGlocker is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 10:20 PM   #14
nimbleVagrant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 20, 2008
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateGlocker
First, the stock in black & white laminate is ugly. I own wood, and I own plastic/synthetic. Wood is for beauty, synthetic is for all-weather use. Laminate is for cheap furniture.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't look to bad to me. Laminate is generally more stable than solid wood and it's probably stronger than any other common stock making material, short of a full length metallic chassis. While a synthetic stock may seem more applicable to such a utilitarian rifle, synthetic stocks tend to be either super cheap hollow plastic garbage or expensive composite. They probably didn't want to go the super cheap plastic route, and they probably wanted to keep the price point as low as possible, so laminate was likely their best option.

Quote:
Second, why a bolt and 16.5" barrel no less in a "tactical" weapon? Aside from the overuse of the term "tactical" (its gotten to the point where if I see the word "tactical" in a product description I assume its a bad product they are trying to move, sort of like the "catch of the day" in Red Lobster which is really the fish that's 3 days old they are trying to move before it smells too bad).
And where is Ruger marketing this as a "tactical" rifle? I skimmed their site and "tactical" never really came up in reference to their scout rifle. The purpose of the bolt and 16.5" barrel is to keep it short and simple. Scout rifles aren't meant to be tactical, they're intended to be small and quick handling, qualities not exclusive to HSLD crowd.
nimbleVagrant is offline  
Old April 19, 2011, 11:06 PM   #15
Ringolevio
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Where the Kaw meets the Mighty Mo
Posts: 241
The Scout Rifle is Col. Cooper's pet project

The late Col. Jeff Cooper explains the Scout Rifle concept (which some believe Ruger didn't get quite right with their Gunsite Scout Rifle) in his book "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth", which should be recommended reading anyway. He also thought the rifle should be used with a short, low-power, forward-mounted scope and a CW or Ching Sling.

As to the G-1 (sporterized FAL), I'm a big fan. It's pretty "southpaw friendly" and, after all, the FN-FAL (Fusil Automatique Leger, or Light Automatic Rifle) has been the MBR of more than 30 countries. If I had to bug out with only one long gun, I'd be torn between my G-1 and my Mini 14; I love 'em both. It's a bear to lug around .308 ammo but it's a real flat-shooting, hard-hitting round.

Last edited by Ringolevio; April 19, 2011 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Afterthought
Ringolevio is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 12:13 AM   #16
Daekar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 458
+1 for Boston's Gun Bible, great reading for everybody who is not afraid to contemplate needful action and practical equipment. There aren't any books I would accept as Gospel aside from the Word itself, but Boston's Gun Bible and Atlas Shrugged are up there.
Daekar is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 01:20 AM   #17
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,403
Ruger Scout

The Ruger Scout got a nice writeup in the new "American Rifleman".
A "scout" was intended as a GP rifle, as proposed by COOPER, as already noted.

The use of laminate allowed a simple solution to adjustable length of pull. To get same in a synthetic design would have required a more complex arrangement (in synthetic) than Ruger wanted to do. Or so says the article.
The barrel is short so as to meet the spec's as proposed by Cooper, and allow same to be handy and portable.

The only other affordable factory scout is the Savage version. To me, Rugers version is more nicely done than the Savage, but since my Savage is paid for, and tweaked to my liking, I doubt I'll switch.

A manual (bolt) is not a bad idea for a worst case/GP rifle. Lighter, high reliability, fewer parts........semi auto fire and high mag cap are not necessities in my book.
bamaranger is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 04:50 AM   #18
RT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,191
One of these
RT is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 06:57 AM   #19
Doc Intrepid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 835
tactical style hunting rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman8351
"...a 308/7.62x51 tactical style rifle that i could use for hunting too"...
I've taken this rifle hunting for the last 3 years. It's slightly heavier than my bolt gun, but considering the amount of stuff in my daypack the difference in total weight is negligible:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...-25-rifle.aspx

My understanding is that the rifle design is a collaboration between Remington and DPMS.
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.
Doc Intrepid is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 07:14 AM   #20
Doc Intrepid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 835
BTW -

marksman 8351,

Request that a mod change the title of your thread to remove the "SHTF" if you want your thread to remain open.

"SHTF" is against TOS for this board.

just sayin'
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.
Doc Intrepid is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 07:46 AM   #21
Ringolevio
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Where the Kaw meets the Mighty Mo
Posts: 241
Whatsamatta wit' those initials?

Doc Intrepid:
Quote:
Request that a mod change the title of your thread to remove the "SHTF" if you want your thread to remain open.
"SHTF" is against TOS for this board.
just sayin'
Sheesh, they're just four initials; they could mean anything! How 'bout we change it to "WTBGU"
(which might stand for When the Balloon Goes Up)?
Ringolevio is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 08:01 AM   #22
gearhounds
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2011
Location: M'burg WV
Posts: 325
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the H&K 91 (or one of it's many variants). Like the M1A, and FAL, It has a solid pedigree as a battle proven performer, and a reasonable accurate hunting weapon. A tight locking collapsable stock that is easy to switch out with solid one for hunting. Yes, the trigger is a little grittier than the other 2 but can easily be improved. I have taken a few deer with my Springfield Sar8, and it cycles hunting loads fine. It does tend to bash the brass, but this would be the least of my worries as a SHTF gun.
__________________
Busting thugs since 1992
gearhounds is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 08:27 AM   #23
Doc Intrepid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringolevio
"Sheesh, they're just four initials; they could mean anything! How 'bout we change it to "WTBGU"
(which might stand for When the Balloon Goes Up)?"
I note you're relatively new to the board -

I'm just mentioning the matter to try to keep the thread open.

Here is Item 5 from the Forum Rules, click on the upper left item on the blue control panel at the top of each page:

5. Topics and conduct that will not be tolerated:
Drive-by cut and paste posting
Puerile bickering
Political Advocacy posts, or any purely political topic. However, some very few exceptions may be made.
Conspiracy threads or posts
Posts or threads on Race, Religion, and Sexuality
The End Of The World As We Know It (TEOTWAWKI), AKA: SHTF or Doomsday threads and Zombie threads
Knowingly and willfully advocating violation of a standing federal or state law (any state)
Violating our Copyrighted Material Policy



SHTF threads are closed. It's just house rules.
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.
Doc Intrepid is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 08:46 AM   #24
Ringolevio
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2011
Location: Where the Kaw meets the Mighty Mo
Posts: 241
Touché!

Doc Intrepid:
Quote:
I note you're relatively new to the board -

I'm just mentioning the matter to try to keep the thread open.

Here is Item 5 from the Forum Rules, click on the upper left item on the blue control panel at the top of each page:

5. ...The End Of The World As We Know It (TEOTWAWKI), AKA: SHTF or Doomsday threads and Zombie threads
¬°Mea culpa! Yes, I'm a FNG, and I don't want to wear out my welcome. I've already been admonished for being "snarky" when I thought I was just being playful.

But the thread still seems like a valid one. Could we just call it "What if you had to depend on only one rifle from here on out?"
Ringolevio is offline  
Old April 20, 2011, 10:02 AM   #25
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
I'm still trying to figure out what the OP gains over his existing hardware for his stated use. Want a .308? Get a bolt gun.

LK
L_Killkenny is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13996 seconds with 7 queries